TV: Game of Thrones | Season 6 | Part V (NO BOOK DISCUSSION - NO SPOILERS!)

[Ainec]

Read my last sentence again. What everyone thinks happened 8000 years ago isn't necessarily the whole truth.

yet but I am still inclined to believe the lore, seeing as nothing has been really proven yet

 

[What the Faulk]

Didn't they say that that was the first White Walker. In the lore there were already White Walkers before the Night's King

For the show, we have to go by what we see or what D&D tell us (which, if it's important, sure as **** shouldn't be hidden in some vignette after the credits). Take the end of last episode. GRRM has explicitly stated that Targaryens are not immune to fire, and Dany's rebirth was a one-time thing. Apparently that's not the case in the show. We can use the books as kind of a guide, but we can't take the backstory as gospel when it comes to the show anymore.

 

[kingsholygrail]

Brienne didn't want to leave because she would be separated from her admirer.

 

[Blender]

For the show, we have to go by what we see or what D&D tell us (which, if it's important, sure as **** shouldn't be hidden in some vignette after the credits). Take the end of last episode. GRRM has explicitly stated that Targaryens are not immune to fire, and Dany's rebirth was a one-time thing. Apparently that's not the case in the show. We can use the books as kind of a guide, but we can't take the backstory as gospel when it comes to the show anymore.

Dany is obviously immune to fire on the show, but that doesn't mean all Targaryens are immune to fire. I read this a lot and it confuses me, why does one single individual from a family being immune to fire suddenly make her entire family immune to fire?

 

[The Gongshow]

Hold the door

 

[Emperoreddy]

Dany is obviously immune to fire on the show, but that doesn't mean all Targaryens are immune to fire. I read this a lot and it confuses me, why does one single individual from a family being immune to fire suddenly make her entire family immune to fire?

It is also kind of clear that Dany's second fire trick was thematically important to the evolution of her character. She is stepping away from being Myessa somewhat to go back to being a Targ, a dragon, and a conqueror.

I don't know why Dany's fireproofing is such an issue though. She was shown to have an immunity to fire from episode 1. Plus book Dany seems to have a resistance to fire as well.

Dany has some fireproofing, but Targs as a whole don't.

 

[The Gongshow]

It is also kind of clear that Dany's second fire trick was thematically important to the evolution of her character. She is stepping away from being Myessa somewhat to go back to being a Targ, a dragon, and a conqueror.

I don't know why Dany's fireproofing is such an issue though. She was shown to have an immunity to fire from episode 1. Plus book Dany seems to have a resistance to fire as well.

Dany has some fireproofing, but Targs as a whole don't.

Agreed, I thought this was cleared up way back in S1 she is immune and her brother wasn't proving she's a special Targ. Was the Mad King immune or just obsessed with burning people alive?

either way I have no issue with Dany and her fireproofing, I didn't know this bothered people.

 

[Random Forest]

The "it only looks worse because of the standards set by GOT" thing I actually think applies more to season 6. It's fine, it's solid, and it's good entertainment, but it has not been anywhere close to S1-4. It feels a little rushed, a little bloated, a little overreliant on action sequences/exciting plot developments/deaths.... Not necessarily unfocused, but not as sure-handed, intriguing, and artfully built up as S1-4 for sure.

Should it be? Seasons 1-4 were literally building up. But we're not really rising anymore. We're starting to get end-game plot developments. It's starting to wind down, so I think it's unfair to expect the narration and development to be pitted against the first four seasons which had entirely different intentions.

A show with as much depth as GoT has a monstrous task to successfully resolve it's countless storyline in a coherent and satisfying way. There's a lot more slack for artistry in the build up than there is on the wind down where it needs to be laser focused on its descent toward plot resolution. So I don't think they're over-relying on action sequences/exciting plot developments as a crutch... rather, they're prioritizing a full resolution to the story over a more artful but possibly incoherent and unsatisfying ending that doesn't tie everything together. IE, there's only so much time between now and the end, so there pretty much needs to be nonstop plot development, right?

 

[HanSolo]

Should it be? Seasons 1-4 were literally building up. But we're not really rising anymore. We're starting to get end-game plot developments. It's starting to wind down, so I think it's unfair to expect the narration and development to be pitted against the first four seasons which had entirely different intentions.

A show with as much depth as GoT has a monstrous task to successfully resolve it's countless storyline in a coherent and satisfying way. There's a lot more slack for artistry in the build up than there is on the wind down where it needs to be laser focused on its descent toward plot resolution. So I don't think they're over-relying on action sequences/exciting plot developments as a crutch... rather, they're prioritizing a full resolution to the story over a more artful but possibly incoherent and unsatisfying ending that doesn't tie everything together. IE, there's only so much time between now and the end, so there pretty much needs to be nonstop plot development, right?

Well said.

 

[Blender]

Should it be? Seasons 1-4 were literally building up. But we're not really rising anymore. We're starting to get end-game plot developments. It's starting to wind down, so I think it's unfair to expect the narration and development to be pitted against the first four seasons which had entirely different intentions.

A show with as much depth as GoT has a monstrous task to successfully resolve it's countless storyline in a coherent and satisfying way. There's a lot more slack for artistry in the build up than there is on the wind down where it needs to be laser focused on its descent toward plot resolution. So I don't think they're over-relying on action sequences/exciting plot developments as a crutch... rather, they're prioritizing a full resolution to the story over a more artful but possibly incoherent and unsatisfying ending that doesn't tie everything together. IE, there's only so much time between now and the end, so there pretty much needs to be nonstop plot development, right?

I think you pretty much nailed it.

 

[HanSolo]

Just realized, Max Von Sydow has had two pretty cool deaths in his two most recent roles.

One by Kylo Ren, and the other by the Night's King.

 

[LightningStrikes]

Bran's storyline escalated quickly - to say the least.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Should it be? Seasons 1-4 were literally building up. But we're not really rising anymore. We're starting to get end-game plot developments. It's starting to wind down, so I think it's unfair to expect the narration and development to be pitted against the first four seasons which had entirely different intentions.

A show with as much depth as GoT has a monstrous task to successfully resolve it's countless storyline in a coherent and satisfying way. There's a lot more slack for artistry in the build up than there is on the wind down where it needs to be laser focused on its descent toward plot resolution. So I don't think they're over-relying on action sequences/exciting plot developments as a crutch... rather, they're prioritizing a full resolution to the story over a more artful but possibly incoherent and unsatisfying ending that doesn't tie everything together. IE, there's only so much time between now and the end, so there pretty much needs to be nonstop plot development, right?

Bang on. There is a finite amount of show left to wrap up a ton of story and bring it together. We are tumbling downhill to the end at this point.

 

[The Gongshow]

For a the longest time I wondered why "Hodor" was the only word he said, I thought it was his name or something. The way they ended the episode was amazing and very sad. The little things this show does is quite clever and cool

 

[HanSolo]

Bang on. There is a finite amount of show left to wrap up a ton of story and bring it together. We are tumbling downhill to the end at this point.

And yet Dany is still in Essos. I would put money on the last shot of the season being Dany on a ship crossing the Narrow Sea.

 

[Mr Fahrenheit]

Agreed, I thought this was cleared up way back in S1 she is immune and her brother wasn't proving she's a special Targ. Was the Mad King immune or just obsessed with burning people alive?

either way I have no issue with Dany and her fireproofing, I didn't know this bothered people.

I always found that scene in season 1 a little ambiguous because Dany says after Viserys died that he was no true dragon sort of implying he was the one that was different

 

[Beef Invictus]

And yet Dany is still in Essos. I would put money on the last shot of the season being Dany on a ship crossing the Narrow Sea.

The Greyjoy fleet is already on its way...

 

[The Gongshow]

I always found that scene in season 1 a little ambiguous because Dany says after Viserys died that he was no true dragon sort of implying he was the one that was different

I compare it to the whole "warg" thing. Only Bran can do it and the rest of his family cant. Dany has the fire thing but not everyone in her family does.

I am aware that the "warg" thing isn't a Stark based power like how Fire is a well known Targareon thing

 

[chicagoskycam]

Maybe I have to watch it again but there seemed to be a disconnect in the show after the Night King touched Bran and they realized they had to run.

Did they know they had to go back in the past to have Hodar save them or did it just happen?

I found the scene between Jorah and Dany very powerful. I hope Jorah can stick around for a while longer.

 

[Shareefruck]

Should it be? Seasons 1-4 were literally building up. But we're not really rising anymore. We're starting to get end-game plot developments. It's starting to wind down, so I think it's unfair to expect the narration and development to be pitted against the first four seasons which had entirely different intentions.

A show with as much depth as GoT has a monstrous task to successfully resolve it's countless storyline in a coherent and satisfying way. There's a lot more slack for artistry in the build up than there is on the wind down where it needs to be laser focused on its descent toward plot resolution. So I don't think they're over-relying on action sequences/exciting plot developments as a crutch... rather, they're prioritizing a full resolution to the story over a more artful but possibly incoherent and unsatisfying ending that doesn't tie everything together. IE, there's only so much time between now and the end, so there pretty much needs to be nonstop plot development, right?

I think having five seasons of build up and two or three seasons of predominantly resolution sounds like a terrible way to structure a series, though, if that's what you're suggesting. Artful buildup/storytelling can't only apply to early seasons of a show but not later seasons. If a show digs itself in a corner leaving itself no choice but to spend too much of the last few seasons cleaning things up and tying up loose ends, I think that's the fault of the way the show is planned rather than something that excuses it, personally. The fact that the show is running out of time and has no choice but to compromise execution in order to cram as much plot development as possible out of necessity similarly sounds like that would be the fault of poor planning on the show's part (if that is the case-- it's perfectly fair to disagree that it has been compromised-- but you seem to be going along with what I'm saying).

Even if the circumstances are thrust upon them (which I'm not aware is the case) and they're just making do with what they have, that's unfortunate, but it doesn't change how effective the season is. I don't think the show needs to be held to a different standard simply because the circumstances of the show has changed to one that might be more difficult to manage for its creators, as you've pointed out.

 

[Beef Invictus]

I compare it to the whole "warg" thing. Only Bran can do it and the rest of his family cant. Dany has the fire thing but not everyone in her family does.

I am aware that the "warg" thing isn't a Stark based power like how Fire is a well known Targareon thing

Actually, you've made me realize something with this. Warging isn't Stark specific, so much as it's a skill possessed by descendants of the First Men. Similarly, the Targs weren't the only dragon riders. The Valyrian elite could pretty much all do it. So, fire/heat resistance is likely a trait that sometimes manifests in descendants of Valyrians; Perhaps the most skilled Red Priests/Priestesses have Valyrian ancestry and manifest fire resistance and Valyrian affinity to fire magic, similar to how descendants of the First Men can have an affinity to warging.

 

[Devilsfan992]

Last night's episode made me think what were the saddest TV deaths I have watched.

The top 3 for me are

Hodor,
[spoil]Charlie[/Spoil] from Lost,
[spoil]Edgar[/Spoil] from 24.

 

[The Gongshow]

That is some great writing, after 6 seasons of just saying his name to find out it meant something. His name actually meant something, and that thing defined what Hodor's life was leading up to. It went full circle in the most tragic way possible.

 

[Siamese Dream]

Just saw a theory that Littlefinger actually wrote Ramsay's letter because when he presents the Falcon to Robin Arryn he says "come and see"

 

[Ainec]

Just saw a theory that Littlefinger actually wrote Ramsay's letter because when he presents the Falcon to Robin Arryn he says "come and see"

ooh I can see it

would redeem a character that peaked in s4 and went downhill ever since