Post-Game Talk: Game 5

[Shesterkybomb]

Criticizing the only reason we have a chance in this series to this point is some real hilarious hf ranger shit.

 

[LOFIN]

How many of ours are Goodrow? All of them?

The argument has been made that you can't win relying on Zibanejad as your 1C. We don't. Trocheck is a better player and has a bigger role. The two teams are basically even when he and Barkov share the ice.

Is Zibanejad ideal? No, he basically just puts up points and does nothing else, but how many 2nd line centers are better?

We need our 3rd line to not be the worst line in the league. Florida's 3rd line aren't a scoring a ton but they can take a shift and take a shift in our zone. All of the combinations with Wennberg on them (not to single out Wennberg but to pull that line out of the noise) have been all of our worse lines.

This isn't the 4th line where you can just say "aw shucks" and hide them if it's not special teams. This is a top-9 line playing 16 minutes a game and from game 1 of the playoffs, they can't even go out there and take an NHL shift, and are scoring one goal per series.

Our 1st (or 2nd) and 3rd lines have basically identical stats. Yet you just keep calling out the 3rd line and depth.

Chris Kreider, 5 games, 1+0, -2
Mika Zibanejad, 5 games, 0+2, -2
Filip Chytil, 4 games, 0+0, -1
Jack Roslovic, 5 games, 0+1, 0
Alex Wennberg, 5 games, 1+0, -2
Will Cuylle, 5 games, 0+1, +2
Kaapo Kakko, 4 games, 0+0, -1

If we had better depth, we would probably have a better chance to win this series. Or, if our top guys actually did what they are getting f***ing paid for to do, we could also be winning the series.

 

[Machinehead]

You know what must be nice? Being Bobrovsky with that team in front of you. How hard has HE really had to work?

The same core group of players got absolutely shaken like a dog toy in the SCF last year.

Barkov was underwhelming in that run and there was legitimate talk that they should move on from him and turn the team over to Tkachuk.

This past summer, they made their defense corps a little bit better.

It's amazing what an effect that has.

 

[Machinehead]

Our 1st (or 2nd) and 3rd lines have basically identical stats. Yet you just keep calling out the 3rd line and depth.

Chris Kreider, 5 games, 1+0, -2
Mika Zibanejad, 5 games, 0+2, -2
Filip Chytil, 4 games, 0+0, -1
Jack Roslovic, 5 games, 0+1, 0
Alex Wennberg, 5 games, 1+0, -2
Kaapo Kakko, 4 games, 0+0, -1

If we had better depth, we would probably have a better chance to win this series. Or, if our top guys actually did what they are getting f***ing paid for to do, we could also be winning the series.

Because the 2nd line beat Carolina and the 3rd line shit themselves and scored one goal against Carolina.

You need to get contributions from all over and have different lines step up as players run hot and cold. The 3rd line is the one spot we've never gotten a contribution from, outside of two-thirds of our defense corps which is an even bigger problem.

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

Anyone complaining about Igor should be banned from posting until the start of next season

 

[TheDirtyH]

How many of ours are Goodrow? All of them?

The argument has been made that you can't win relying on Zibanejad as your 1C. We don't. Trocheck is a better player and has a bigger role. The two teams are basically even when he and Barkov share the ice.

Is Zibanejad ideal? No, he basically just puts up points and does nothing else, but how many 2nd line centers are better?

We need our 3rd line to not be the worst line in the league. Florida's 3rd line aren't a scoring a ton but they can take a shift and take a shift in our zone. All of the combinations with Wennberg on them (not to single out Wennberg but to pull that line out of the noise) have been all of our worse lines.

This isn't the 4th line where you can just say "aw shucks" and hide them if it's not special teams. This is a top-9 line playing 16 minutes a game and from game 1 of the playoffs, they can't even go out there and take an NHL shift, and are scoring one goal per series.

goodrow has 3 of 5
lundell has 2 of 3

IDK man, I don't disagree depth is an issue, but the big difference between these two teams in this series has clearly been at the top of the lineup, and Mika has been absolute garbage this series. IDK why you'd even bother to disagree with that. He's been among if not our very worst player by almost any metric and certainly just by watching. Wennberg has a higher xGF and GF% this series and has a OT GWG. I don't disagree he sucks but:

Player 1: 33% xGF, 27% GF, 1g 0a 1p
Player 2: 27% xGF, 0% GF, 0g 2a 2p

I'm not seeing the astronomical difference here.

 

[LOFIN]

Because the 2nd line beat Carolina and the 3rd line shit themselves and scored one goal against Carolina.

You need to get contributions from all over and have different lines step up as players run hot and cold. The 3rd line is the one spot we've never gotten a contribution from, outside of two-thirds of our defense corps which is an even bigger problem.

The 3rd line actually has a GWG in this series. Who gives a f*** about the Carolina series right now? We are playing against Florida.

If you say this because you have more confidence in Kreider and Zibanejad unf***ing themselves vs 3rd line contributing, that's fair. But so far, both of these lines have sucked ass, and the expectations and demands for line #2 should be much higher. They are expected to produce.

 

[Paulie Walnutz]

 

[RangersFan1994]

Anyone think the defense is so bad because of Phil Housley?? Someone who was an offensive dman in his day and wasn't great defensively. How about getting someone who played defense in their day to run the defense? Housley is like Leetch running the defense. Makes no sense.

 

[LOFIN]

This past summer, they made their defense corps a little bit better.

It's amazing what an effect that has.

I think a lot of people (the vast majority actually) underestimate the impact of a good defence. I certainly have been guilty of this before. And the biggest issue is that people think about their D-corps just through preventing goals, when they have a crucial role in the offence of a team. I'm not talking about just guys like Fox, Makar, Hughes who are real game changers, but defencemen who can just make the simple pass and right play at the point. We are severely lacking in that department.

 

[Machinehead]

goodrow has 3 of 7
lundell has 2 of 3

IDK man, I don't disagree depth is an issue, but the big difference between these two teams in this series has clearly been at the top of the lineup, and Mika has been absolute garbage this series. IDK why you'd even bother to disagree with that. He's been among if not our very worst player by almost any metric and certainly just by watching. Wennberg has a higher xGF and GF% this series and has a OT GWG. I don't disagree he sucks but:

Player 1: 33% xGF, 27% GF, 1g 0a 1p
Player 2: 27% xGF, 0% GF, 0g 2a 2p

I'm not seeing the astronomical difference here.

I have absolutely no issue with getting rid of Mika if that presents itself as a possibility.

My problem tends to be that it extends out to Kreider and Panarin because of this big boys/country club meme.

Panarin has been fine and Kreider has literally always been an effective 5v5 player which is something we desperately can't afford to get rid of right now.

It's like people just wanna get rid of all our scoring and we already don't get enough scoring.

I don't think getting rid of Zibanejad is even on the team's radar to the point where it's not getting worked up about, but ideally, I'd like to get another center and reduce his role. We came into opening night with Chytil centering Panarin and Trocheck on the "third" line. I don't know what Chytil is anymore with all these injuries, but I'd like to come into next year with something similar, but with Mika and Trocheck swapped.

Put Kreider with Trocheck and Lafreniere and let them have a 112% xGF. Put Panairn with Chytil which I loved before Chytil got hurt. Let Zibanejad play on the third line with weaker matchups and fewer 5v5 minutes.

I think it can work. I guess my issue is the insistence that we have to now hit reset because "tha core" sucks. Meanwhile, people said similar things about every team and their players until they won it one year.

We came way too far with Fox on one leg to blow up the team.

 

[Machinehead]

Anyone think the defense is so bad because of Phil Housley?? Someone who was an offensive dman in his day and wasn't great defensively. How about getting someone who played defense in their day to run the defense? Housley is like Leetch running the defense. Makes no sense.

The defense was bad before Housley.

Our defense has been bad since Housley was playing.

The Rangers like to have a token PMD and everyone else is a big moron. It's 2024.

EVERYONE on good defense corps can move the puck now.

 

[huerter]

After this series it's a lock that the Panthers give Igor all the flowers. They have high regard for the rest of our team not at all.

 

[Machinehead]

As ugly as this series has been, a healthy Fox would still give us 24 minutes where we're dominating.

In game 2, he mustered up a game where Tkachuk and Barkov were both Jimmy Vesey when he was on the ice. Lo and behold, that was the one really good game we played.

The Cup was gone when Jensen threw that hit, we just didn't want to admit it.

 

[TominNC]

Are we still in the series?

LGR

 

[DanielBrassard]

I have absolutely no issue with getting rid of Mika if that presents itself as a possibility.

My problem tends to be that it extends out to Kreider and Panarin because of this big boys/country club meme.

Panarin has been fine and Kreider has literally always been an effective 5v5 player which is something we desperately can't afford to get rid of right now.

It's like people just wanna get rid of all our scoring and we already don't get enough scoring.

I don't think getting rid of Zibanejad is even on the team's radar to the point where it's not getting worked up about, but ideally, I'd like to get another center and reduce his role. We came into opening night with Chytil centering Panarin and Trocheck on the "third" line. I don't know what Chytil is anymore with all these injuries, but I'd like to come into next year with something similar, but with Mika and Trocheck swapped.

Put Kreider with Trocheck and Lafreniere and let them have a 112% xGF. Put Panairn with Chytil which I loved before Chytil got hurt. Let Zibanejad play on the third line with weaker matchups and fewer 5v5 minutes.

I think it can work. I guess my issue is the insistence that we have to now hit reset because "tha core" sucks. Meanwhile, people said similar things about every team and their players until they won it one year.

We came way too far with Fox on one leg to blow up the team.

I love Trocheck but a 31-year old smaller guy who plays a heavy game and hard minutes is not ideal as the go to guy moving forward. That why Zibanejad is such a problem. Trocheck is perfect slotted in behind that sort of guy. But we are asking for too much from him otherwise.

 

[LOFIN]

I have absolutely no issue with getting rid of Mika if that presents itself as a possibility.

My problem tends to be that it extends out to Kreider and Panarin because of this big boys/country club meme.

Panarin has been fine and Kreider has literally always been an effective 5v5 player which is something we desperately can't afford to get rid of right now.

It's like people just wanna get rid of all our scoring and we already don't get enough scoring.

I don't think getting rid of Zibanejad is even on the team's radar to the point where it's not getting worked up about, but ideally, I'd like to get another center and reduce his role. We came into opening night with Chytil centering Panarin and Trocheck on the "third" line. I don't know what Chytil is anymore with all these injuries, but I'd like to come into next year with something similar, but with Mika and Trocheck swapped.

Put Kreider with Trocheck and Lafreniere and let them have a 112% xGF. Put Panairn with Chytil which I loved before Chytil got hurt. Let Zibanejad play on the third line with weaker matchups and fewer 5v5 minutes.

I think it can work. I guess my issue is the insistence that we have to now hit reset because "tha core" sucks. Meanwhile, people said similar things about every team and their players until they won it one year.

We came way too far with Fox on one leg to blow up the team.

For me, it's not about getting rid of these players. It's recognizing that they have been an issue, and trying to find ways to fix it. Kreider is on a fantastic deal. Zibanejad can outproduce his deal, he has the ability. Panarin is one of the most talented wingers in the league. You are not getting rid of these players, unless you happen to have an opportunity out of the left field a la Matthew Tkachuck.

But I refuse to shift blame from them to the depth players because "that's just what they are as players". They have to be better, and the coach has to find ways to make them play better. But I guess we'll never know because Kreider and Mika will literally never be separated.

 

[Machinehead]

I love Trocheck but a 31-year old smaller guy who plays a heavy game and hard minutes is not ideal as the go to guy moving forward. That why Zibanejad is such a problem. Trocheck is perfect slotted in behind that sort of guy. But we are asking for too much from him otherwise.

I'm not really planning on "moving forward" tbh.

I'm squeezing one, maybe two more years out of this because why not?

By 2026, Kreider is 35, Panarin is 34, and Trocheck is 33.

At that point, I'm putting Fox on LTIR to rest him and lose more games, apologizing to Lafreniere and begging him to stick around, and tanking for McCrosby.

 

[Foxy]

How many of ours are Goodrow? All of them?

The argument has been made that you can't win relying on Zibanejad as your 1C. We don't. Trocheck is a better player and has a bigger role. The two teams are basically even when he and Barkov share the ice.

Is Zibanejad ideal? No, he basically just puts up points and does nothing else, but how many 2nd line centers are better?

We need our 3rd line to not be the worst line in the league. Florida's 3rd line aren't a scoring a ton but they can take a shift and take a shift in our zone. All of the combinations with Wennberg on them (not to single out Wennberg but to pull that line out of the noise) have been all of our worse lines.

This isn't the 4th line where you can just say "aw shucks" and hide them if it's not special teams. This is a top-9 line playing 16 minutes a game and from game 1 of the playoffs, they can't even go out there and take an NHL shift, and are scoring one goal per series.

I would also add we're completely missing a top 6 right winger, which combined with an awful 3rd line just killed us last night.

To start the 3rd he goes Mika Kreider and Laf. Now he has to go with the 3rd line to let Laf rest, and they get caved in by the Tkachuk line. Meanwhile Florida is just rolling 4 lines likes whos up next.

He's shortened the bench as much as he could to rotate Panarian and Laf in with the top line. But you need to be able to ice at least 3 competent line, which we just don't have.

 

[DanielBrassard]

I'm not really planning on "moving forward" tbh.

I'm squeezing one, maybe two more years out of this because why not?

By 2026, Kreider is 35, Panarin is 34, and Trocheck is 33.

At that point, I'm putting Fox on LTIR to rest him and lose more games, apologizing to Lafreniere and begging him to stick around, and tanking for McCrosby.

Moving forward I mean beyond this year, including the next couple. But yeah this team is going to need to do a hard reset sooner than later.

 

[Machinehead]

Moving forward I mean beyond this year, including the next couple. But yeah this team is going to need to do a hard reset sooner than later.

We have some intriguing prospects and it could be a quick transition if a lot goes right, but I'm seriously concerned about the lack of a center pipeline. And defense, really.

We seem to draft nothing but wingers.

It would be really nice to suck one year, grab some phenom in the top 5, and it just hits immediately as has happened to other organizations.

 

[MrAlmost]

Anyone think the defense is so bad because of Phil Housley?? Someone who was an offensive dman in his day and wasn't great defensively. How about getting someone who played defense in their day to run the defense? Housley is like Leetch running the defense. Makes no sense.

No, not really. That's like saying Peca is a bad forwards coach cause he wasn't a big scorer so we should get someone else. What a player was never really has a bearing on their ability to coach.

 

[jay from jersey]

My argument isn't that Igor sucks. My argument is that he deserves criticism for last game and everyone is too scared to sack up and say the messiah cost us a winnable game. Like Igor is Boeing and people are afraid they're getting picked off as they leave their house if they say he wasn't good.

For the people in the back:

Nobody cares if you make 10 saves on grade A chances and then give up a 3rd period absolute BACK BREAKER low danger shot. It completely negates all the unreal saves you just made.

Florida is too good defensively to leave any margin for error for Igor, that's just the way it is. Be mad at Chris Drury for also not sacking up at the deadline and bolstering the D corps.

Thank God for Chad Ruhwedel, though.

Honest question. Does Guentzel in roslovics spot catapult this team past FLA????

I have no doubts when I say, the cup winner is 99% should be from the east.
I know Dallas is a good 5v5 team, and otter is a solid goalie.
I know edm has talent and the best player in the world and they are going to try and out score you every game.

I don’t think either of them can take what FLA-NYR has given each other thru this series so far.

It’s an honest debate????
Does adding Guentzel+wemnberg

Instead of Ros+ Wennberg

Give this team enough clutch scoring at the right times of games to take the east(????

ATM, I don’t have the answer. Interesting debate though

 

[TheDirtyH]

I have absolutely no issue with getting rid of Mika if that presents itself as a possibility.

My problem tends to be that it extends out to Kreider and Panarin because of this big boys/country club meme.

Panarin has been fine and Kreider has literally always been an effective 5v5 player which is something we desperately can't afford to get rid of right now.

It's like people just wanna get rid of all our scoring and we already don't get enough scoring.

I don't think getting rid of Zibanejad is even on the team's radar to the point where it's not getting worked up about, but ideally, I'd like to get another center and reduce his role. We came into opening night with Chytil centering Panarin and Trocheck on the "third" line. I don't know what Chytil is anymore with all these injuries, but I'd like to come into next year with something similar, but with Mika and Trocheck swapped.

Put Kreider with Trocheck and Lafreniere and let them have a 112% xGF. Put Panairn with Chytil which I loved before Chytil got hurt. Let Zibanejad play on the third line with weaker matchups and fewer 5v5 minutes.

I think it can work. I guess my issue is the insistence that we have to now hit reset because "tha core" sucks. Meanwhile, people said similar things about every team and their players until they won it one year.

We came way too far with Fox on one leg to blow up the team.

I don't have any issues with Kreider. I've been a Kreider stan since 2012. I used to interject on the hate on him in 2014 the same way I have for Kakko (we're all wrong sometimes) and Lafreniere since they showed up here. And I've said it before, after that 3rd period hattrick, Kreider could go scoreless and -10 the rest of the way idc, that was too clutch.

Panarin is another story. He's not been as bad as Mika, maybe he hasn't even been bad. But he hasn't been a difference maker. He's certainly been several tiers below his regular season (again), and he's clearly the third wheel on his line. He's a much less valuable player in the postseason than Carter Verhaege, and for 11.6 it's not acceptable to me.

As far as big picture... I don't get worked up because nothing ever changes. You're right that a healthy Fox may have been enough which is really a testament to how special that player is. But I just don't have anything left for #93.

You may not think he's our 1C, but our coach, GM, our roster, and all the other coaches, GMs, and rosters think he is. He gets the matchups, he gets the half wall on the PP, he gets the Pk minutes, and he wilts every time he's not facing a 3rd string goalie. My feelings about and assement of Mika actually speak directly to how opposite my opinion of Kreider is. That guy is amazing and he's had to carry around this loser for years.

 

[Machinehead]

I also kind of take the approach that you don't know what's going to happen. There isn't always this binary between "this team is it" and "this team isn't it so I'm going to stop doing it."

We rebuilt and we got competitive again, but we didn't get competitive because we rebuilt. Fox forced his way here and winning the Lafreniere pick was pure luck following a season where we had a winning record. Everyone we drafted because of the rebuild ranged from disappointment to complete bust.

The successful cores around the league aren't rebuild products. Teams like Florida, Dallas, and Vegas acquired most of their good talent.

I do think we need to be aggressive and make some real changes.

Start with having NO BAD PLAYERS and then go from there.