Post-Game Talk: Game #25: Blackhawks 2, Canucks 1 - Six goals? Nah, one goal will do fine...

[Wetcoaster]

So you're just saying that we need Luongo to be better than the last few Vezina winners (because I only checked back the past 3 years) in their Vezina winning years. No big deal right?

Nope just not give up soft goals in close games. It is a 60 minute game.

“Yeah, I thought it was my best game of the year till that (nine) seconds.†Roberto Luongo

 

[y2kcanucks]

Nope just not give up soft goals in close games. It is a 60 minute game.

“Yeah, I thought it was my best game of the year till that (nine) seconds.†Roberto Luongo

Oh good, we see Luongo taking responsibility. How come our captain isn't taking responsibility for the offenses's lack of scoring?

#SpinJob

 

[CanaFan]

Well no, but we live in a salary capped NHL. A lot of our resources are tied up in goaltending, which is why we try to win these tight, low-scoring games. It's how our roster is designed, around elite goaltending and timely goals. We're not like Chicago, who is only giving Crawford 2.5M and so they can have Kane, Sharp, Toews, Hossa, Keith, etc.

Ya, the reason we can't afford any decent scorers is DEFINITELY because we have a $5.3M starting goalie and not because we're paying any forwards $4.25M to play in Utica and sit in the press box. Or $6.1M (soon to be $7M) to a former Art Ross winner to score at a 25 goal pace, or $4.5M to another winger who hasn't scored a goal all season yet.

But ya, if we only had saved another $2.8M on our goalie I'm sure all of those problems would just disappear and we'd be scoring 4-5 goals a night like Chicago ...

 

[y2kcanucks]

Ya, the reason we can't afford any decent scorers is DEFINITELY because we have a $5.3M starting goalie and not because we're paying any forwards $4.25M to play in Utica and sit in the press box. Or $6.1M (soon to be $7M) to a former Art Ross winner to score at a 25 goal pace, or $4.5M to another winger who hasn't scored a goal all season yet.

But ya, if we only had saved another $2.8M on our goalie I'm sure all of those problems would just disappear and we'd be scoring 4-5 goals a night like Chicago ...

What's hilarious is how the difference between what Chicago spends in goaltending and what we spend in goaltending is about the same as Chris Tanev's contract. And also, as previously mentioned, there is about half a league out there that spends more on goaltending. I guess I've missed all the 1-0 games that have happened this year.

 

[Wetcoaster]

Oh good, we see Luongo taking responsibility. How come our captain isn't taking responsibility for the offenses's lack of scoring?

#SpinJob

Henrik has done so per a number of recent interviews.

 

[y2kcanucks]

Henrik has done so per a number of recent interviews.

So then, by Henrik's word, the offense must be the problem. Since he said it. So why talk about goaltending?

 

[luongo321]

Here is Kassian just chillin' after being benched (photo courtesy of the always entertaining _EllieNuck_ (https://twitter.com/_EllieNuck) :

I know this pic is from the previous game, but when I see it, all I can think of is that Kassian just seems out of it. I see frustration/sadness written all over that guy (my opinion). I kinda worry about him.

 

[Bleach Clean]

So then, by Henrik's word, the offense must be the problem. Since he said it. So why talk about goaltending?

Because as difficult as it is to comprehend, they are two separate issues.

 

[y2kcanucks]

Because as difficult as it is to comprehend, they are two separate issues.

It's difficult for me to comprehend how exactly goaltending is an issue when our starter gives up 2 or fewer in 75% of his starts. It's difficult for me to comprehend why goaltending dominates the discussions when it's blatantly obvious that 99% of the blame rests solely on the shoulders of our inept offense!

 

[Wetcoaster]

So then, by Henrik's word, the offense must be the problem. Since he said it. So why talk about goaltending?

The problems are not mutually exclusive.

 

[Wetcoaster]

It's difficult for me to comprehend how exactly goaltending is an issue when our starter gives up 2 or fewer in 75% of his starts. It's difficult for me to comprehend why goaltending dominates the discussions when it's blatantly obvious that 99% of the blame rests solely on the shoulders of our inept offense!

Yes any number of posters have agreed that the opinion you espouse ad nausem without due consideration of the whole picture is very difficult to comprehend.

 

[Scurr]

It's difficult for me to comprehend how exactly goaltending is an issue when our starter gives up 2 or fewer in 75% of his starts. It's difficult for me to comprehend why goaltending dominates the discussions when it's blatantly obvious that 99% of the blame rests solely on the shoulders of our inept offense!

Luongo gives up two or fewer but the team can't score goals...

I say we quit playing defence altogether and just try and score goals, Lu's got it

 

[y2kcanucks]

Luongo gives up two or fewer but the team can't score goals...

I say we quit playing defence altogether and just try and score goals, Lu's got it

So because the team can't score goals it's reasonable to ask Luongo to do something that Vezina goalies in recent years haven't had to do?? And talk about buying him out if he doesn't? It's absolutely illogical!

 

[deadinthewater]

We need

A starting goalie that wants to be here, with better body language
A top 6 scoring forward, I could care less of if he's good defensively.
A bottom 6 forward or two that play like Richardson/Hansen
Size on our entire forward group and a mean streak.

 

[Bleach Clean]

It's difficult for me to comprehend how exactly goaltending is an issue when our starter gives up 2 or fewer in 75% of his starts. It's difficult for me to comprehend why goaltending dominates the discussions when it's blatantly obvious that 99% of the blame rests solely on the shoulders of our inept offense!

Goaltending only dominates the discussion because you refuse to acknowledge it as an issue as well. This is only persisting becuase you are willfully ignoring that aspect of the analysis.

 

[y2kcanucks]

I wonder if CFL/NFL teams blame their defense when their offense can only put up one or two field goals in a game? "Well the defense needs to be better and hold the other team like they held us. It doesn't matter that our QB got intercepted 5 times in a game and we couldn't stop fumbling...defense!!"

Or do baseball teams blame their pitchers for giving up 2 runs in a game when their own team can only score 1 run? "Pedro Martinez's 2.00 ERA isn't good enough, our team can't score runs so he needs to shut them out and steal us a win. Pitching!!!"

Luongo is as big of a problem to this Canucks team as a paper cut is to a human's hand who currently has both legs crushed under a building. "Let's ignore the fact that we need to get both legs amputated...that paper cut, damn it! If it weren't for that paper cut!!!"

I have a feeling that a lot of people are still bitter that Luongo is our goalie, so no matter how he plays they will blame Luongo. Even if the offense is clearly the problem, THE problem (because if the offense did its job we would be winning a lot more hockey games and would probably be on top of the conference). No matter how void of logic it may be, people will blame Luongo. It's just become the "cool" thing to do, almost how like people would take up smoking at one time because it was the "cool" thing to do.

 

[Wetcoaster]

I wonder if CFL/NFL teams blame their defense when their offense can only put up one or two field goals in a game? "Well the defense needs to be better and hold the other team like they held us. It doesn't matter that our QB got intercepted 5 times in a game and we couldn't stop fumbling...defense!!"

Or do baseball teams blame their pitchers for giving up 2 runs in a game when their own team can only score 1 run? "Pedro Martinez's 2.00 ERA isn't good enough, our team can't score runs so he needs to shut them out and steal us a win. Pitching!!!"

Luongo is as big of a problem to this Canucks team as a paper cut is to a human's hand who currently has both legs crushed under a building. "Let's ignore the fact that we need to get both legs amputated...that paper cut, damn it! If it weren't for that paper cut!!!"

I have a feeling that a lot of people are still bitter that Luongo is our goalie, so no matter how he plays they will blame Luongo. Even if the offense is clearly the problem, THE problem (because if the offense did its job we would be winning a lot more hockey games and would probably be on top of the conference). No matter how void of logic it may be, people will blame Luongo. It's just become the "cool" thing to do, almost how like people would take up smoking at one time because it was the "cool" thing to do.

Flawed analogy - in CFL/NFL the D can score points and there is no counterpart of a goalie.

Now if you had used real football, then perhaps it would be a closer analogy.

Continue wondering.

 

[y2kcanucks]

Flawed analogy - in CFL/NFL the D can score points and there is no counterpart of a goalie.

Now if you had used real football, then perhaps it would be a closer analogy.

Continue wondering.

Now flawed at all. NHL goalies have scored goals. Maybe Vancouver fans expect Luongo to? I mean, afterall, his cap hit is $5.33M. Why isn't he scoring goals too? No blame to the offense. The Sedins? Doing their jobs by not scoring goals. Luongo? Lets in 2 goals against the best offensive team in the league and apparently isn't doing his job.

I feel like banging my head against a brick wall.

 

[Bleach Clean]

I'm curious to see what is resolved first? Does the team score enough to allow Luongo to be decidedly average? Or, does Luongo return to an above average, dare we say elite, form to allow the team to play the stingy style they are trying to play?

The LA game should provide further insight.

 

[Hodgy]

Now flawed at all. NHL goalies have scored goals. Maybe Vancouver fans expect Luongo to? I mean, afterall, his cap hit is $5.33M. Why isn't he scoring goals too? No blame to the offense. The Sedins? Doing their jobs by not scoring goals. Luongo? Lets in 2 goals against the best offensive team in the league and apparently isn't doing his job.

I feel like banging my head against a brick wall.

There are two major flaws in your reasoning:

1. You are not accepting that goaltending and scoring are two distinct issues, each worthy of separate discussion
2. You are only consisdering absolute numbers with Luongo (i.e., you cite the fact that Luongo only let in two goals last night, without considering the fact that the Canucks were actually leading the Blackhawks by one goal midway through the third period and Crawford only let in one goal that game)

 

[y2kcanucks]

There are two major flaws in your reasoning:

1. You are not accepting that goaltending and scoring are two distinct issues, each worthy of separate discussion
2. You are only consisdering absolute numbers with Luongo (i.e., you cite the fact that Luongo only let in two goals last night, without considering the fact that the Canucks were actually leading the Blackhawks by one goal midway through the third period and Crawford only let in one goal that game)

I do accept that goaltending and scoring are two distinct parts of the team. What I don't accept is that goaltending is a problem at all on this team. If not for our goaltending we aren't even in a position to give our offense a chance to actually show up and do their job and get us some points. But people, as they will, will continue to blame Luongo no matter how illogical it may be.

Offense sucks, blame Luongo.

 

[StringerBell]

So you're just saying that we need Luongo to be better than the last few Vezina winners (because I only checked back the past 3 years) in their Vezina winning years. No big deal right?

Not really sure you wanna start comparing Luongo's goaltending to Vezina winning goaltending

I just wanna see Lu come in and shut the door in a tight, low scoring game. It's been too long!

 

[Upoil]

Now flawed at all. NHL goalies have scored goals. Maybe Vancouver fans expect Luongo to? I mean, afterall, his cap hit is $5.33M. Why isn't he scoring goals too? No blame to the offense. The Sedins? Doing their jobs by not scoring goals. Luongo? Lets in 2 goals against the best offensive team in the league and apparently isn't doing his job.

I feel like banging my head against a brick wall.

Once again. Please provide one example of a poster giving the offense a free pass. Just ONE and you might have a reason to be standing on your soap-box.

You seem to just have a problem with people that say the both the offense AND goaltending could be better.

The only person getting a free pass is Lou from you.

 

[Wetcoaster]

Now flawed at all. NHL goalies have scored goals. Maybe Vancouver fans expect Luongo to? I mean, afterall, his cap hit is $5.33M. Why isn't he scoring goals too? No blame to the offense. The Sedins? Doing their jobs by not scoring goals. Luongo? Lets in 2 goals against the best offensive team in the league and apparently isn't doing his job.

Definitely flawed without question. There is no counterpart of a goalie in the CFL/NFL.

Seriously?? NHL goalies scoring a goal is an outlier.

Luongo says he did not do his job last night, but then what would he know, eh?

I feel like banging my head against a brick wall.

Right back at you as any number of posters have noted in this thread.

 

[Hodgy]

I'm curious to see what is resolved first? Does the team score enough to allow Luongo to be decidedly average? Or, does Luongo return to an above average, dare we say elite, form to allow the team to play the stingy style they are trying to play?

The LA game should provide further insight.

Frankly, I am not sure how any could maintain that Luongo has been anything more than below average to average this season. While I accept that the Canucks are an average (perhaps at best?) team this season, our defense and defensive system is still likely within the the top third of the NHL. Our depth at forward is abysmal, but one through six our defense is very solid (although I do think Stanton is somewhat shaky defensively).

Given this environment, while one might expect Luongo's winning percentage to be poor, one would also expect his save percentage to be above average, which isn't the case. Furthermore, this is despite the Canucks' stellar penalty kill percentage.