Post-Game Talk: Game #25: Blackhawks 2, Canucks 1 - Six goals? Nah, one goal will do fine...

[Orca Smash]

[/B]

This was predicted the moment the new divisions came out.

Well then, I guess Im stating the obvious.

Not doing your oil any favors either.

 

[Vankiller Whale]

Well, Luongo's .914 sv% is less than the .915% league average. So, below average is accurate?

18th is close enough to mid-pack to be considered average. Their ES scoring is above average at 11th.

In November the Canucks have averaged 2.30 G/G and Luongo has averaged 2 GA/G and a .921 sv%. Before November the Canucks were a solid playoff team. Now we're 5 points out of a playoff spot with games in hand.

 

[serge2k]

Luongo hasn't won one with less than 3 goals of offensive support. Huge difference. But yes, Crawford is 0-1 in games where the Blackhawks score 1 goal or get shutout. Good stat!



Luongo has zero wins when we have a 2 in the Canucks column. Every one of his wins have involved 3+ goals in support.

Could have something to do with the Canucks only scoring 2 goals times all season all season. They won one of those BTW, in a SO but that is a 2 goal game.

That 1-0-2 record when the Canucks score 2 goals is just so so bad.

 

[mossey3535]

The current style will generate enough goals in the playoffs. That's all that matters. Playoff goals are uniformly grinding, garbage goals. Remember, Chicago lit it up last year in the regular season at 3.10 GF/G but they fell to 2.78 for the playoffs.

We started the year with 2.875 GF/G, now we're down around 2.25 (I picked the start of the mediocre roadtrip as the cutoff). All we need to do is hover around 2.8 for the season and we will be fine IMO.

It's only a quarter of the way through the season and every team goes through a goal scoring drought. I'd say our PP is the main reason we are not picking up that extra half a goal per game.

Also, this is nothing new. We were 2.52 last year (19th). The year before we were 5th at 2.94 - that would only be good for 7th this year as it stands.

To me, 2.94 isn't that much better than 2.875. Granted it is nowhere near the 3.1 average of 2010-2011 and earlier but the team is trying to find a balance with their defence right now.

In other words, don't panic.

 

[Bleach Clean]

In November the Canucks have averaged 2.30 G/G and Luongo has averaged 2 GA/G and a .921 sv%. Before November the Canucks were a solid playoff team. Now we're 5 points out of a playoff spot with games in hand.

None of this actually addresses the point I was contesting with this particular reply. Thanks for the info though...

 

[yoss]

Take all the forwards to a reputable, certified hypnotherapist and help them overcome the fear of scoring goals. Idk, something. Something has to give, they've been outplaying opponents lately and not getting wins.

 

[Vankiller Whale]

None of this actually addresses the point I was contesting with this particular reply. Thanks for the info though...

While not specific to that particular reply, it is applicable to the opinion you have put forth in this thread.

Luongo has been significantly above average during this bad stretch of games, while our offense has been significantly below average.

Why then should Luongo shoulder the brunt of the blame for us losing?

 

[Ryp37]

Tough loss, terrible coverage by Burrows on that powerplay goal all he had to do was lift his stick

 

[JuniorNelson]

There is no upside to this team, except hope for the prospects to be ready soon.

Luongo is much slower this season. If this is who he is and he's okay with it and adjusting, then it's not something I want to dwell on. He has been redefining his style for over a year, he seems to be adapting. Canucks are utterly committed anyway.

The defense looks awful as individuals. I have never seen so many personal errors before. As a group they are adequate, not stellar. Not elite!

THe forward group is hopelessly dependent on the Sedins. If the Sedins are tired or heavily checked, they become unable to carry the team entirely on their own. It is unreasonable to expect them to! They are older now and it doesn't matter what shape they are in or what their attitudes are like! Expecting them to work through a new, heavier schedule with no secondary support at all is just silly. It won't be happening and that's pretty much been seen.

Fresh coaching is a fun idea and keeps things fresh and interesting, but the trend is downward and they are kind of spiralling. If the Canucks wish to avoid becoming a smoking crater they have to save themselves right now! This roster can't do it. They have to add new guys.

 

[serge2k]

We are 11th in the NHL in goals scored. We are 16th in the NHL in fewest goals allowed. The Problemâ„¢ is with the goals allowed. QED

http://www.nhl.com/ice/teamstats.htm?fetchKey=20142ALLSAAAll&sort=avgGoalsPerGame&viewName=summary

So that to me looks like the word vancouver next to the number 18.


http://www.nhl.com/ice/teamstats.ht...&sort=avgGoalsAgainstPerGame&viewName=summary
and right there, looks like 14.

I could be wrong though, this whole numbers thing is really hard.

 

[StringerBell]

The Canucks offensive performance against playoff teams has been scary bad. We've averaged 1.93 goals for per game against playoff teams this year. Yet despite that poor offensive showing we are 4-7-3 against playoff teams.

Yes, we need to score more.

NO ONE IS REFUTING THAT

 

[Johnny Canucker]

How many excuses for Luongo? 9 seconds. Got outplayed again. This has been going on for mutliple games, not just this one. Right now, FLA game seems the outlier.

With the way this team plays, focusing on possession, playing along the wall and with a heavy forecheck, they will need their goalie to be really good. He had to be the linchpin, a la Lundqvist in NYR.

This team is like LA. They reduce scoring chances against, increase possession overall, but do not take risks in the neutral zone. As a result, the game is played in a stingier fashion. Something Luongo has not shown to do well within.

Lol. No we are not. Nowhere even in the same ballpark.

We are like Calgary.

 

[Johnny Canucker]

There is no upside to this team, except hope for the prospects to be ready soon.

Luongo is much slower this season. If this is who he is and he's okay with it and adjusting, then it's not something I want to dwell on. He has been redefining his style for over a year, he seems to be adapting. Canucks are utterly committed anyway.

The defense looks awful as individuals. I have never seen so many personal errors before. As a group they are adequate, not stellar. Not elite!

THe forward group is hopelessly dependent on the Sedins. If the Sedins are tired or heavily checked, they become unable to carry the team entirely on their own. It is unreasonable to expect them to! They are older now and it doesn't matter what shape they are in or what their attitudes are like! Expecting them to work through a new, heavier schedule with no secondary support at all is just silly. It won't be happening and that's pretty much been seen.

Fresh coaching is a fun idea and keeps things fresh and interesting, but the trend is downward and they are kind of spiralling. If the Canucks wish to avoid becoming a smoking crater they have to save themselves right now! This roster can't do it. They have to add new guys.

Coaching is a huge issue. HUGE. Inability to adjust.....getting scored on first 80% of the time .....PP....:.

The biggest problem with this team is the management and fans thinking we are a playoff team. We simply are not. Nowhere near good enough. Finishing 9/10/11 is going to suck. I would rather finish 30th in the Leauge this year and draft a generational talent potentially.

 

[Angry Little Elf]

Lol. No we are not. Nowhere even in the same ballpark.

We are like Calgary.

Same ballpark? Not even the same frickin sport.

(if you get this reference, you're cool)

 

[Johnny Canucker]

In November the Canucks have averaged 2.30 G/G and Luongo has averaged 2 GA/G and a .921 sv%. Before November the Canucks were a solid playoff team. Now we're 5 points out of a playoff spot with games in hand.

Not only the 5 points back, not only the games in hand we have played, we also have to jump more than 1 team. I don't see us entering the top 8 for the rest of the year.

 

[Bleach Clean]

While not specific to that particular reply, it is applicable to the opinion you have put forth in this thread.

Luongo has been significantly above average during this bad stretch of games, while our offense has been significantly below average.

Why then should Luongo shoulder the brunt of the blame for us losing?

Who says Luongo is bearing the "brunt of the blame"?

It's attribution errors like this that prevent me from responding to your posts. It's just not worth it IMO.

 

[Rotting Corpse*]

I could be wrong though, this whole numbers thing is really hard.

Reading numbers is easy, but apparently detecting when someone is joking is incredibly difficult.

 

[Johnny Canucker]

Man, after a loss, this board becomes a **** show

Ummmm there have been 6 losses in the last 7 games.

 

[Bleach Clean]

Yes, we need to score more.

NO ONE IS REFUTING THAT

It's this attribution that has people tripping all over themselves trying to make a case for Luongo. The team having more than one problem is inconceivable. People aren't able to process this, and here we are. Laughable really.

 

[StringerBell]

It's this attribution that has people tripping all over themselves trying to make a case for Luongo. The team having more than one problem is inconceivable. People aren't able to process this, and here we are. Laughable really.

Yup. Lord forbid we don't treat this team's problems like Highlanders

Anyways this thread is bad and I feel bad. Hopefully our average scoring and goaltending improve over the next 4 months.

 

[Johnny Canucker]

We need

A starting goalie that wants to be here, with better body language
A top 6 scoring forward, I could care less of if he's good defensively.
A bottom 6 forward or two that play like Richardson/Hansen
Size on our entire forward group and a mean streak.

 

[Vankiller Whale]

Who says Luongo is bearing the "brunt of the blame"?

It's attribution errors like this that prevent me from responding to your posts. It's just not worth it IMO.

How many excuses for Luongo? 9 seconds. Got outplayed again. This has been going on for mutliple games, not just this one. Right now, FLA game seems the outlier.

With the way this team plays, focusing on possession, playing along the wall and with a heavy forecheck, they will need their goalie to be really good. He had to be the linchpin, a la Lundqvist in NYR.

This team is like LA. They reduce scoring chances against, increase possession overall, but do not take risks in the neutral zone. As a result, the game is played in a stingier fashion. Something Luongo has not shown to do well within.

It certainly sounded like you were blaming Luongo for our recent record. However while Luongo may not be playing at his best, looking at the numbers it seems pretty clear that he is not the reason for this current slump - he has been performing well above average, while the offense is well below.

 

[Johnny Canucker]

Is nobody else concerned with the bigger picture here, which is that the Canucks have now lost to great teams 5 times in a row now (Los Angeles, Anaheim, San Jose, Dallas, Chicago)? It's all well and fine to trot out the "Bah, we lost to a great team" card, but not when it becomes a trend. Then you have to start thinking about the possibility that the Canucks just don't measure up with the better teams in the West. How long are we going to keep losing games like this before the excuses finally turn into legit questions about this team?

About a month ago, for me. Only back then I was the "crazy skeptic" on the board. Now the rest of the fan base sees what I see. I was ripped for saying we won't make the playoffs this year. Ripped for saying we are not a great team this year and ripped for saying we overachieved in October

I don't expect people here lining up to apologize tho and admit they were wrong.

 

[Bleach Clean]

It certainly sounded like you were blaming Luongo for our recent record. However while Luongo may not be playing at his best, looking at the numbers it seems pretty clear that he is not the reason for this current slump - he has been performing well above average, while the offense is well below.

If anything, it seems like you pulled whatever you wanted from that to make a case and ran with it. Feel free, but that's not the argument being made. As soon as you understand what the actual argument is, and respond to it (hint: Stringer has been talking about it), I will gladly engage. At this point though, I don't see that happening.

I also question your usage of the term "well above average" in terms of sv%. Followed by saying Luongo may not be playing at his best... He must really be godly when he is on his game right? If so, can you point to a game where he was this elite? I can only recall the FLA game where a case could be made. Perhaps there were others? Did he outplay the opposition goalie? ...And around and around we go.

Anyways, I'm done for the night on this. No doubt there will be another discussion on this in the next PGT.

 

[Vankiller Whale]

If anything, it seems like you pulled whatever you wanted from that to make a case and ran with it. Feel free, but that's not the argument being made. As soon as you understand what the actual argument is, and respond to it (hint: Stringer has been talking about it), I will gladly engage. At this point though, I don't see that happening.

I also question your usage of the term "well above average" in terms of sv%. Followd by saying Luongo may not be playing at his best... He must really be godly when he is on his game right? If so, can you point to a game where he was this elite? I can only recall the FLA game where a case could be made. Perhaps there were others? Did outplay the opposition goalie? And around and around we go.

How well Luongo plays and his sv% are two different matters. Based on his sv% and GAA for November he has been great, and any competent team with him in net should have a winning record. Based on the eye test he could be playing better(imo), but that doesn't necessarily mean he's costing games.

Look at someone like Jaroslav Halak, who's play is "meh" but isn't costing his team because he's been consistent. Is anyone going to say Halak is playing fantastic? No. But no one would suggest it's worth replacing Halak either.