Post-Game Talk: Game #25: Blackhawks 2, Canucks 1 - Six goals? Nah, one goal will do fine...

[y2kcanucks]

Technically, we are, provided you count total goals scores. Our average per game however, has us sliding down to 18th, a meager .02 behind the Habs.

I have a hard time saying we are the 11th best team in offense when the only reason you could say that is because we've played more than other teams. Didn't think you needed to explain that, but I suppose so?

 

[opendoor]

As to whether Luongo's declined play is causing us to fall in the standings, I think not. If we were losing games 3-2 then that would make sense to me, but losing games 2-1, even if he were playing at the top of his game we could only expect to have 1 or 2 more wins. No one has more shutouts than Luongo except for Ben Scrivens(lol), and an extra shutout is relatively meaningless to the overall record of the team.

In 48 games last year, the Canucks were able to get 16 points out of games where they scored either 0 or 1 non-EN goals. This year they've gotten 0 points through 25 games in those situations. I'd say that's a pretty big factor in their fall in the standings.

 

[y2kcanucks]

In 48 games last year, the Canucks were able to get 16 points out of games where they scored either 0 or 1 non-EN goals. This year they've gotten 0 points through 25 games in those situations. I'd say that's a pretty big factor in their fall in the standings.

And I've provided stats of Vezina winners who don't win 1-0 games in a season. Maybe the biggest problem is our offense and once that is solved we'll be winning games and have no reason to complain about how our goalie isn't doing something that no other goaltenders do either? (And by that I mean win multiple 1-0 games).

 

[VanillaCoke]

The luongo haters expect luongo as an individual to save games by getting a shutout and a 1.000 sv%

It's much more reasonable and realistic to expect the other 18 individual players to maybe score more than once.

 

[Bourne Endeavor]

I have a hard time saying we are the 11th best team in offense when the only reason you could say that is because we've played more than other teams. Didn't think you needed to explain that, but I suppose so?

No, I agree. It's a misleading. Goal average is a better indicator and as mentioned, we are barely at 18th. Our offense is undoubtedly the primary issue right now.

 

[StringerBell]

Since I see that people are "taking note" of other people's positions on Luongo here I would like to reiterate mine:

Luongo has been average. He needs to be better than average.

Edit: I'll also add my views on the offense since they resemble my views on Luongo so closely:

Our offense has been average. It needs to be better than average.

 

[Vankiller Whale]

In 48 games last year, the Canucks were able to get 16 points out of games where they scored either 0 or 1 non-EN goals. This year they've gotten 0 points through 25 games in those situations. I'd say that's a pretty big factor in their fall in the standings.

We actually did get a point in the last San Jose game.

But while we aren't getting as many points in games we scored 1 or less goals, last year we also had a lot more games where we scored 2 or more and failed to get a point than we have this year.

Last year we only got 45 points out of a possible 70 in 35 games when we scored 2 goals or more, while we have 27 out of 30 points in 15 games we scored 2 or more goals this year.

While based on our how our scoring has been of late, the goaltending of last year would have been preferable due to the amount of 1-goal games we have, that doesn't mean that more consistent goaltending is the reason for our poor record. Would it be better if Luongo were getting us more points in one goal games but losing points in 2+ goal games(but that's okay because they're so few and far between)? Or would it be better if we simply score 2+ goals far more often than we are now?

 

[Rotting Corpse*]

No, I agree. It's a misleading. Goal average is a better indicator and as mentioned, we are barely at 18th. Our offense is undoubtedly the primary issue right now.

I don't even know what to say. It was not a serious post.

 

[Angry Little Elf]

Man, after a loss, this board becomes a **** show

 

[biturbo19]

Here is what KB3 thinks of the recent slump.

“We feel like we’re one of the better teams in the league at keeping pucks out of the net, and having zone time,†Bieksa countered. “You don’t blame a loss on one thing. We’re just not getting the puck luck right now. We’re getting a lot of chances. We’re getting a lot of rebounds. We’re just not quite getting to them.

“I know we’ve lost a bunch. We’re frustrated. We’re not going to get down. We’re playing well. It’s not like a few years ago when we lost nine in a row and we were playing like crap every game, getting outplayed and outshot.

“We’re playing good hockey, we’re just not closing.â€

That to me, is a lot worse a situation than slumping because the team was playing like crap.

This team is putting in the effort, playing the system Torts wants and executing it well...but they still can't score, and can't win game.

This isn't an easy fix like when the team is just playing poorly...it's not a case of, 'well just play better'. It's a case of this team legitimately looking like it's not very good, even when they play well. Some combination of the lack of skill, but also the coaching system in place here, and the goaltending starting to slip out of that 'elite' category...and this has become a very 'blue collar' middle of the pack team, in a big hurry.

 

[ghostingtaro]

Luongo is not the problem.

You can't win if you don't score. Geez this fanbase is complete garbage. It's not rocket science. Funny thing is once we lose a game a ****show of blames are tossed around but once we blow a team like Columbus out they all shutup and jump back on the bandwagon.

Same goaltender you idiots run out of town but now you expect him to be your savior and get a shutout every game he plays. He doesn't owe this city anything.

 

[yoss]

Well, y'know. I mean, hmm. That's, it's like... almost?

Hawks have quick counter punch, good sticks and passing. Still thought the boys looked good at times, was a close game. They need to start winning those close games again or else bye bye post season for the first time in awhile.

Beat the **** out of the Kings, please. Kassian needs to get it together defensively, don't ****ing go anywhere until that puck is out of the zone big guy, Jesus. Automatic turnover machine lately. I trust he'll come around but Hawks are wrong team to keep giving him chances in close game imo.

 

[Jack Tripper]

there are definitely two ways to look at the situation the way bieksa has described it

on the one hand, you could argue that the team is going through an incredible streak of bad luck, which is partially supported by the underlying statistics...a few goals stopped by luongo here and a few chances converted by burrows there and the team is in the playoff hunt in the western conference

on the other hand, you really wonder where the improvement is going to come from...this is a fully healthy team that can't score enough goals to win on a consistent basis and can't get a goaltending win to save their life...it makes you scared to think about how this team is going to play when injuries start bringing guys like andrew alberts and david booth into the lineup as regulars, and how the results are going to look when the possession stats go in the other direction

i'm still on the optimistic side of the ledger (ie i've never seen a guy as snakebitten as alex burrows is at the moment), but improvement is far from inevitable

 

[Derp Kassian]

Since I see that people are "taking note" of other people's positions on Luongo here I would like to reiterate mine:

Luongo has been average. He needs to be better than average.

Edit: I'll also add my views on the offense since they resemble my views on Luongo so closely:

Our offense has been average. It needs to be better than average.

Canucks actually have the 18th lowest GPG so they are below average.. even asking them to be average would have them 1-2 wins better.

 

[serge2k]

Since when?

Horvat is an excellent prospect but cap issues aside I would trade him back to Jersey for Schneider in a heartbeat. No question at all.

Since he gets less offensive support than Luongo.

 

[serge2k]

You STILL fail to see the freaking point. Nobody is saying that Luongo is the problem with this team. People are just waiting for him to steal a game or two, like Crawford did for the Blackhawks tonight, or Reimer did for the Leafs tonight stopping 49 of 50.

You always feel the need to defend Luongo with your life instead of admitting "Yeah, it would be nice if one of these 2-1 losses would swing our way because Luongo was the one who let in 1 instead of 2".

Everyone (or most people here) sees that the main issue with this team is the offense. Luongo is not a problem, per se. We're just looking for Luongo to swing one of these low scoring games in our favour instead of making excuses for him EVERY TIME.

Tons of people are saying Luongo is the problem with this team. It's pretty much nonstop whining about Luongo.

I fully expect that if they actually make the playoffs he will at some point implode, for a game or a series, but right now he is not the problem. If their offense was at all competent they would be comfortably in a playoff spot instead of being well on their way to being completely out of the picture by christmas.

 

[serge2k]

Seriously? Nobody on this board has even come close to saying this. You are like the king of the straw man argument.

I know you probably don't care but there is a concept in debating called the Principle of Charity. Perhaps if you employed it people would actually take you more seriously.

Principle of Charity



You seem to constantly do the complete opposite...

People expect him to win when the team scores zero goals. Logically that means he has to get a shutout, and they therefore expect him to get shutouts.

 

[serge2k]

Too much grind not enough skill.

Grinders:

Richardson
Hansen
Santorelli
Kassian (Probably but he is a ??? right now due to bad games)
Welsh
Weise

Some of that is mixing into the top and overpowering the skilled players like the Sedins, Kesler, Burrows and Higgins. Booth is useless. This is what you are going to expect from a team.

Out of that group of grinders I would keep the bolded. We will probably have to let Santorelli go once Horvat is in the mix. Or we can resign him and he goes back and fourth in the minors depending on Horvat's contribution.

You're missing burrows.

Had a feeling that contract was a bad idea.

 

[StringerBell]

Canucks actually have the 18th lowest GPG so they are below average.. even asking them to be average would have them 1-2 wins better.

Don't be obtuse. With that logic there's no such thing as being an average team -- everyone would have to be above/below average. They're two goals over 25 games away from being in the top half of the league. Look up "statistical significance" and get back to me. Unless Luongo being 16th in SV% for starting goalies makes him below average too??

 

[serge2k]

Yes, the PP is a definite factor here. They can play a controlled, methodical game at ES if their PP further pressure opponents. So far, it has done anything but.

A 29th ranked PP is leading to perceptions of a weak offense when a few games ago they Ranked 11th in ES offense. The PP needs to be fixed.

11th in ES offense isn't great. The offense is weak.

 

[Bleach Clean]

Canucks actually have the 18th lowest GPG so they are below average.. even asking them to be average would have them 1-2 wins better.

Well, Luongo's .914 sv% is less than the .915% league average. So, below average is accurate?

18th is close enough to mid-pack to be considered average. Their ES scoring is above average at 11th.

 

[Jumptheshark]

Look at our division.

These issues cropped up before torts arrived.

We also had two incredible goaltenders and the best tandem in the league to fall back on. They both stole us games at different times last two seasons.

Life is much much harder for canucks this year.

This was predicted the moment the new divisions came out.

 

[y2kcanucks]

Don't be obtuse. With that logic there's no such thing as being an average team -- everyone would have to be above/below average. They're two goals over 25 games away from being in the top half of the league. Look up "statistical significance" and get back to me. Unless Luongo being 16th in SV% for starting goalies makes him below average too??

The Canucks offensive performance against playoff teams has been scary bad. We've averaged 1.93 goals for per game against playoff teams this year. Yet despite that poor offensive showing we are 4-7-3 against playoff teams.

 

[Rotting Corpse*]

Luongo is not the problem.

You can't win if you don't score. Geez this fanbase is complete garbage. It's not rocket science. Funny thing is once we lose a game a ****show of blames are tossed around but once we blow a team like Columbus out they all shutup and jump back on the bandwagon.

Same goaltender you idiots run out of town but now you expect him to be your savior and get a shutout every game he plays. He doesn't owe this city anything.

1) Nobody has said Luongo is The Problem™. This is a strawman that one person has been continuously repeating for about 6 hours now, and has successfully managed to convince new people to the thread that that's what people are saying. Probably the thread would have barely even talked about Luongo had it not been for 1 individual who has posted 60 times and keeps goading people into responding. It's remarkable. If not for him bringing it up and refusing to let go, the discussion of Luongo in this thread would be minimal.

2) Nobody "shut up" and jumped on the bandwagon after the Columbus game. If you honestly believe that I encourage you to read the GDT/PGT for that game. If anything, the tone was surprisingly negative given a 6-2 victory. EVERYONE understood that it was a weak team and that Chicago was the true test. Your account is entirely fictitious.

You see what you want to see.

 

[Bleach Clean]

11th in ES offense isn't great. The offense is weak.

So 1 game off from being tied with a top10 output is "weak"? Great assertion there. Is top5 'average' and above that just 'good'?