GDT: G1: NYR @ Wild 7pm CT (BSN)

[Ban Hammered]

He could’ve avoided the situation by trading Talbot instead of Kahkonen to begin with, especially if the plan was to sign Fleury to an extension. Getting ahead of that contentious situation was 100% the way to go OR pivoting when it was apparent that Fleury did not play well. I think Guerin had an issue with the sunk-cost fallacy of giving a 2nd up for Fleury and then not wanting to lose him in the offseason because of it.

Going from Talbot to Fleury was a lateral move in terms of skill level, but there’s a lot more risk in the variability of Fleury’s play to Talbot’s. Giving Fleury 2 years was unnecessary too.

Kahkonen would have been no better. And I don't think Guerin wanted to do a split time thing with Kahkonen either.
Fluery got two years to help Wallstedt get ready. One year in Iowa, one year backup/split here...and it's his job.

 

[MNRube]

Until proven otherwise, MAF is going to continue to be a liability in my eyes. He hasn’t been good and his style of play is unnecessarily risky for a team that is elite at suppressing 5v5 chances against. Feels like Guerin is clinging to his Vezina season and what MAF was or could be and ignoring what he is currently is. Or I’m just impatient and Fleury brings his good self this year and shows why Guerin is a Gm and I’m merely an HFBoards poster.

 

[Digitalbooya]

Players that were -4 last night:
Kaprizov
Zuccarello
Brodin

 

[Minnewildsota]

This idea that he threw a tantrum is ridiculous, it is so beyond overblown at this point. You're acting like Cam held up Geurin at gunpoint and went into the front office with an S-Vest and started kicking and screaming. His agent and wife voiced their displeasure over the situation, and Geurin is just as much at fault for not communicating with him and his childish bullshit answers about how he "doesn't have to do shit" and whatnot. Talbot couldn't stomach the split? Maybe if the guy you blindly defend with every single one of your posts did his f***ing job and talked to the player, things would have shook out differently.

The FACT is, that when MAF was brought in, which I defended, Cam played IMMENSLEY better than him in front of the exact same defense and team, and was then passed over in the playoffs while his coach called it an easy decision on several occasions publicly, even if that was out of context. Every statistic known to mankind showed we were a better team with Cam than MAF. Cam had every right to be displeased with the situation, and when Guerin did not like the pushback, he shipped him off which is his right.

Hey, this is a thread about overblown reactions. Pot calling kettle much? (not directed solely at you but..)

I'm glad overactions are still a thing... Jesus f***ing Christ. It's one game.

 

[Wild11MN]

I know this is the case for some model, but others are more complex with the things they take into account. I don’t know whether NST has a better model or not, though. I will say that I’m sure there are some goalies out there that wouldn’t have given up more than 3 goals in this game. Flower was swimming in so many goals. Even the first goal, many goalies would’ve saved because they wouldn’t have over-committed on the cross crease pass. I don’t know, it just seems like a lot of the goals we’re a product of fluery. Like I know the defenseman didn’t help him out a ton today, but sometimes you have to make a second save and he just doesn’t.

Interesting, it is definitely annoying how there are so many different models of "expected goals", and they all call it the same thing despite using different formulas, statistics, etc.

After watching the recap, I'd agree with the assessment that elite goalies would make at least a few of those saves.

 

[Wild11MN]

Goalies are expected to make hard saves as well. Yes it's easy to hand waive away the goals when its 1 or 2, but when you allow 6 high danger goals only stopping 53% of high danger chances. The goalie had a bad game.

The teams had similar high danger chances (13 to 11).

Igor stopped .818 % of his high danger shots, which is in the range you'd expect (slightly low actually 830 is about average for a starter).

Fleury had a .538 on High danger chances, allowing 6 goals.

High danger chances are the same thing though, no? It talks about it here - it's mostly based on where the shot comes from, with some deviation based on whether it was a rebound, from a rush, etc.

Natural Stat Trick - Glossary

www.naturalstattrick.com

But all said, I would have called their "high danger scoring chances" much better than ours, again based on passing. I'm not trying to absolve Fleury from blame completely. Just saying that the shots where the Rangers scored felt like very high % chances compared to ours.

Disclaimer that I was at the game, so I didn't get many replays or have great vision of the far end of the rink.

 

[Jesus comma Brodin]

Hey, this is a thread about overblown reactions. Pot calling kettle much? (not directed solely at you but..)

I'm glad overactions are still a thing... Jesus f***ing Christ. It's one game.

I didn't utter a word about last night, but you not wrong.

 

[thestonedkoala]

Hey, this is a thread about overblown reactions. Pot calling kettle much? (not directed solely at you but..)

I'm glad overactions are still a thing... Jesus f***ing Christ. It's one game.

Except this goes back to the previous season.

 

[Webster]

Fleury can be bought out if he continues to stink, $1.2M cap hit for 2 yrs is not a disaster. Going with Gustavsson and Wallstedt could still save the season.

 

[ThatGuy22]

High danger chances are the same thing though, no? It talks about it here - it's mostly based on where the shot comes from, with some deviation based on whether it was a rebound, from a rush, etc.

Natural Stat Trick - Glossary

www.naturalstattrick.com

But all said, I would have called their "high danger scoring chances" much better than ours, again based on passing. I'm not trying to absolve Fleury from blame completely. Just saying that the shots where the Rangers scored felt like very high % chances compared to ours.

Disclaimer that I was at the game, so I didn't get many replays or have great vision of the far end of the rink.

You consider them better than ours because Fleury was flailing and the puck went into the net, while Igor was on his game.

The point remains. NHL Goalies need to stop high danger chances as well. At minimum 4 out of 5.

When they don't, they had a poor game even though fans will hand waive it away. Doesn't mean he can't be better in the future, but a big part of that loss is on Fleury's inability to do his job.

 

[guitarhunterdude]

I mean, if the result of Fleury being washed this year is that we get a high pock in a good draft prior to getting Wallstedt between the pipes, there are worse ways to waste a season.

 

[Webster]

Welcome to this great team, Joe

Sounds like Rossi stays on the 4th line, I doubt Evason will change that.

 

[AKL]

Fleury can be bought out if he continues to stink, $1.2M cap hit for 2 yrs is not a disaster. Going with Gustavsson and Wallstedt could still save the season.

Very bold of you to believe Guerin would swallow his pride and buy Fleury out

 

[Dickie Dunn]

Just realized that the Rags get to kick the $$$$ out of another rusty team playing game 1 tonight.

 

[Jesus comma Brodin]

Just realized that the Rags get to kick the $$$$ out of another rusty team playing game 1 tonight.

No Igor on the 2nd half of this b2b has the bookies giving the edge to Jets tonight.

 

[AKL]

No Igor on the 2nd half of this b2b has the bookies giving the edge to Jets tonight.

Well we may have given up 7 goals last night, but at least we can find solace in the fact that the Rangers think we're better than the Jets

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Hey, this is a thread about overblown reactions. Pot calling kettle much? (not directed solely at you but..)

I'm glad overactions are still a thing... Jesus f***ing Christ. It's one game.

Giving up 7 in a home opener against a team that you (in theory) should be in the same neighborhood with is pretty fertile grounds for having reactions.

But having any reaction is "over reacting" to some people around here, so whatever.

 

[MNRube]

I mean, if the result of Fleury being washed this year is that we get a high pock in a good draft prior to getting Wallstedt between the pipes, there are worse ways to waste a season.

With this roster, the only way we get a high pick is if things go horribly wrong and the collateral damage from that would likely offset any gains from a Top 10 pick IMO

 

[NHL1674]

Players that were -4 last night:
Kaprizov
Zuccarello
Brodin

Brodin and Kap being a -4 says everything about that game. You don't need to read the postgamer to know it was a rough night.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

With this roster, the only way we get a high pick is if things go horribly wrong and the collateral damage from that would likely offset any gains from a Top 10 pick IMO

Not quite sure I agree with this. I know we have Kaprizov, but rosters are more than just 1 guy, and we're relying on a lot of questionable things in a lot of different spots on our roster.

Other teams have good players too, and many of them actually improved their rosters over the summer.

 

[AKL]

Not quite sure I agree with this. I know we have Kaprizov, but rosters are more than just 1 guy, and we're relying on a lot of questionable things in a lot of different spots on our roster.

Other teams have good players too, and many of them actually improved their rosters over the summer.

To be fair we have 2 guys

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

To be fair we have 2 guys

I'm still of the opinion that it's probably a year too early for Boldy to be a consistent threat as the best player on his line, but would be very happy to be wrong on that.

 

[AKL]

I'm still of the opinion that it's probably a year too early for Boldy to be a consistent threat as the best player on his line, but would be very happy to be wrong on that.

You're probably right, but I watched him score two goals in one game (where everyone else looked like shit) and I'm ready to anoint him the savior of the franchise

 

[Minnewildsota]

Giving up 7 in a home opener against a team that you (in theory) should be in the same neighborhood with is pretty fertile grounds for having reactions.

But having any reaction is "over reacting" to some people around here, so whatever.

There's a difference between reacting and overreacting. You know this, but whatever.

 

[Bazeek]

There's a difference between reacting and overreacting. You know this, but whatever.

I guess an arbitrary difference is still a difference.

I'd be more worried if letting the other team score a touchdown in the home opener didn't get fans a little fired up.