G Zach Fucale (2013, 36th, MTL)

[DatsyukToZetterberg]

i agree he should have been a 1st rounder, teams really messed up....as for the BS of goalies are too hard to predict I do not buy that either, in the NHL a lot of great goalies came from the 1st round, some good ones came from other rounds too but same goes for players, people can go through and say well MA Fleury is good but not the 1st overall talent or same as Dipietro but thing is I do not even question any dumb move Mike Milbury made and Dipietro was good till his injuries.....

There are a lot of undiscovered goalies because there are a lot of goalies who are great and teams just do not get to see them much because they are playing behind an older experienced goalie especially over in europe because there are like 10 different leagues that quality players can all play in of all different age groups. That is why teams get steals of goalies later rounds. If a goalie though like Luongo, Rask, Bernier...who were taken 1st round, well they are quality goalies why not take them 1st round...not sure why teams are in this goalies are hard to read, I think problem with a lot of goalies not turning out is because of how they are handled such as teams not having room for them so they keep cutting them to the minors over and over, some teams throwing a young goalie right into the fire to fast because they do not have a good goalie so the young guy becomes the number 1.

This way of thinking has now came into QMJHL as now they say we do not do goalies in the 1st unless they are exceptional....two years ago Mason Mcdonald fell to the round when a team like gatineau had 2 1st round picks, one pick late, why wouldn't you take the kid, instead they took Kameron Kielly who was good but Mcdonald would have been the better choice, instead Mason went to Bathurst the worst team in the CHL for developing talent but at least now he is on PEI and now he is doing great. Again if the goalie is good draft him where he shold go instead of being scared, any forward or defender could just as easily flop.

I think the thinking is that the difference between a goalie drafted in the later rounds is not as big as the difference in the forwards/defenceman drafted in the later rounds. Now for defenceman you may find a later round gem every now & then but when it comes to forwards it is practically impossible to find a top line forward outside of the 1st round.

Then when you look at the # of #1 goalies drafted outside of the 1st it makes sense why you may not take a goalie in the 1st. I respect your opinion but this is one thing I think most NHL teams got right. As always there will sometimes be an exception to the rule, sometimes it's a weaker draft or the team is very high on the player, but normally you're likely to get more value from a F/D taken in the 1st than a G.

 

[Analyzer*]

I think the thinking is that the difference between a goalie drafted in the later rounds is not as big as the difference in the forwards/defenceman drafted in the later rounds. Now for defenceman you may find a later round gem every now & then but when it comes to forwards it is practically impossible to find a top line forward outside of the 1st round.

Then when you look at the # of #1 goalies drafted outside of the 1st it makes sense why you may not take a goalie in the 1st. I respect your opinion but this is one thing I think most NHL teams got right. As always there will sometimes be an exception to the rule, sometimes it's a weaker draft or the team is very high on the player, but normally you're likely to get more value from a F/D taken in the 1st than a G.

I think it's harder to judge a good goalie since there's so many players who do really well in juniors, but then disappear in the next league.

 

[UsernameWasTaken]

Mooseheads’ goalie bounces back from world juniors

it's a month and a half since WJC ...but still...really nice to see Fucale get a write up in the Globe and Mail

 

[garret9]

i agree he should have been a 1st rounder, teams really messed up....as for the BS of goalies are too hard to predict I do not buy that either, in the NHL a lot of great goalies came from the 1st round, some good ones came from other rounds too but same goes for players, people can go through and say well MA Fleury is good but not the 1st overall talent or same as Dipietro but thing is I do not even question any dumb move Mike Milbury made and Dipietro was good till his injuries.....

There are a lot of undiscovered goalies because there are a lot of goalies who are great and teams just do not get to see them much because they are playing behind an older experienced goalie especially over in europe because there are like 10 different leagues that quality players can all play in of all different age groups. That is why teams get steals of goalies later rounds. If a goalie though like Luongo, Rask, Bernier...who were taken 1st round, well they are quality goalies why not take them 1st round...not sure why teams are in this goalies are hard to read, I think problem with a lot of goalies not turning out is because of how they are handled such as teams not having room for them so they keep cutting them to the minors over and over, some teams throwing a young goalie right into the fire to fast because they do not have a good goalie so the young guy becomes the number 1.

This way of thinking has now came into QMJHL as now they say we do not do goalies in the 1st unless they are exceptional....two years ago Mason Mcdonald fell to the round when a team like gatineau had 2 1st round picks, one pick late, why wouldn't you take the kid, instead they took Kameron Kielly who was good but Mcdonald would have been the better choice, instead Mason went to Bathurst the worst team in the CHL for developing talent but at least now he is on PEI and now he is doing great. Again if the goalie is good draft him where he shold go instead of being scared, any forward or defender could just as easily flop.

No... There is definitely realistic concerns about how inefficient drafting of goaltenders have been relative to players.

Pour example:

Here is NHL value of goaltenders at each pick selection

Here is same thing for skaters for comparison

There is definitely some stark differences in efficiency in goaltending and player scouting... this also doesn't have to do the development arc of goaltenders, as if you rearrange the goaltenders more by Sv% relative to league average, the goaltender curve begins to look a lot more like the player curve.

For fun here's something I found by someone else on the internet:

 

[HuGort]

No... There is definitely realistic concerns about how inefficient drafting of goaltenders have been relative to players.

Pour example:

Here is NHL value of goaltenders at each pick selection

Here is same thing for skaters for comparison

There is definitely some stark differences in efficiency in goaltending and player scouting... this also doesn't have to do the development arc of goaltenders, as if you rearrange the goaltenders more by Sv% relative to league average, the goaltender curve begins to look a lot more like the player curve.

For fun here's something I found by someone else on the internet:

I don't understand your last chart

 

[garret9]

I don't understand your last chart

Last one isn't mine, which is why there is a link to it: http://thats-offside.blogspot.ca/

It is the player's percentage difference from league average.

 

[Whileee]

I don't understand your last chart

Basically, it shows how much better (or worse) a goalie's save percentage is than the average for his league (in relative terms). For example, Crawford's save percentage was 47% better than QMJHL goalies during his playing career in that league. In comparison, Fucale's save percentage is 7.8% better than the average for the league during his career.

Again, this is not in absolute terms, but relative (based on z-scores).

In lay terms, it means that Crawford and other goalie's at the top end of the graph (left side) were much better than the other goalies in their league (based on save percentage), whereas the goalies on the lower end (like Fucale) weren't much better than average (and Leighton was worse than average).

Fucale is an interesting case. He is highly regarded in a lot of circles despite pedestrian save percentages due largely to his lower GAA and winning record while playing on a very strong junior team. It will be interesting to see if he translates well to the NHL despite his save percentage, in which case it will add more confusion to the already messy process of scouting junior goalies.

 

[Ohashi_Jouzu*]

Fucale is an interesting case. He is highly regarded in a lot of circles despite pedestrian save percentages due largely to his lower GAA and winning record while playing on a very strong junior team.

Actually, he's highly regarded in all the right circles mostly because of everything that's NOT easily revealed by statistics - technique, mental make-up/character, competitive spirit, work ethic/commitment to improving, etc.

 

[samsquanch9*]

Basically, it shows how much better (or worse) a goalie's save percentage is than the average for his league (in relative terms). For example, Crawford's save percentage was 47% better than QMJHL goalies during his playing career in that league. In comparison, Fucale's save percentage is 7.8% better than the average for the league during his career.

Again, this is not in absolute terms, but relative (based on z-scores).

In lay terms, it means that Crawford and other goalie's at the top end of the graph (left side) were much better than the other goalies in their league (based on save percentage), whereas the goalies on the lower end (like Fucale) weren't much better than average (and Leighton was worse than average).

Fucale is an interesting case. He is highly regarded in a lot of circles despite pedestrian save percentages due largely to his lower GAA and winning record while playing on a very strong junior team. It will be interesting to see if he translates well to the NHL despite his save percentage, in which case it will add more confusion to the already messy process of scouting junior goalies.

luckily all scouts know that save percentage is the only single thing that matters and nothing else

 

[Mad Dog Tannen]

Actually, he's highly regarded in all the right circles mostly because of everything that's NOT easily revealed by statistics - technique, mental make-up/character, competitive spirit, work ethic/commitment to improving, etc.

You can make a lot of arguments for intangibles in other positions. Goalies live and die by their GAA and save %.

I'm glad he has a great competitive spirit though!

 

[GTA]

You can make a lot of arguments for intangibles in other positions. Goalies live and die by their GAA and save %.

I'm glad he has a great competitive spirit though!

I would think that the save percentage of quality scoring chances is a much, much more telling indication of skill than simply GAA and save %. I would think that professionals who watch him and his peers take this kind of information into account. To the layman though (most people who post on here) it is pretty much only stats. Not to say that this moves the Fucale argument in any direction, just adding to your comment. Statistics are great, but quality analysis involves actually watching.

 

[Mad Dog Tannen]

I would think that the save percentage of quality scoring chances is a much, much more telling indication of skill than simply GAA and save %. I would think that professionals who watch him and his peers take this kind of information into account. To the layman though (most people who post on here) it is pretty much only stats. Not to say that this moves the Fucale argument in any direction, just adding to your comment. Statistics are great, but quality analysis involves actually watching.

OF course. There are exceptions to every general rule Tom, but if you put a caveat for every outlier every discussion point would be moo (sic). St. Louis is a great example of what you're referring to. Generally speaking, those 2 stats combined can tell a pretty accurate story. Much more so than any 2 stats for def or Fwds.

 

[Whileee]

Actually, he's highly regarded in all the right circles mostly because of everything that's NOT easily revealed by statistics - technique, mental make-up/character, competitive spirit, work ethic/commitment to improving, etc.

luckily all scouts know that save percentage is the only single thing that matters and nothing else

Fair enough.

I'm sure that scouts look at a number of things.

Fucale is obviously considered a good goalie prospect, but it's not like he was an upper-end first round pick. Scouts from most teams must have had a few questions about him. The Canadiens selected Michael McCarron ahead of him.

 

[TheBeastCoast]

Fair enough.

I'm sure that scouts look at a number of things.

Fucale is obviously considered a good goalie prospect, but it's not like he was an upper-end first round pick. Scouts from most teams must have had a few questions about him. The Canadiens selected Michael McCarron ahead of him.

Well he was the first goalie picked in the draft.

 

[Ohashi_Jouzu*]

Well he was the first goalie picked in the draft.

And the highest ranked goalie for a while leading up to the draft.

 

[HuGort]

Basically, it shows how much better (or worse) a goalie's save percentage is than the average for his league (in relative terms). For example, Crawford's save percentage was 47% better than QMJHL goalies during his playing career in that league. In comparison, Fucale's save percentage is 7.8% better than the average for the league during his career.

Again, this is not in absolute terms, but relative (based on z-scores).

In lay terms, it means that Crawford and other goalie's at the top end of the graph (left side) were much better than the other goalies in their league (based on save percentage), whereas the goalies on the lower end (like Fucale) weren't much better than average (and Leighton was worse than average).

Fucale is an interesting case. He is highly regarded in a lot of circles despite pedestrian save percentages due largely to his lower GAA and winning record while playing on a very strong junior team. It will be interesting to see if he translates well to the NHL despite his save percentage, in which case it will add more confusion to the already messy process of scouting junior goalies.

Okay i got it now. Good chart. Are stats the goalies taken just in their draft year? Because be tainted chart comparing 18 year old like Fucale to a 20 year old like Crawford. Should be one on playoffs also. As reason why Fucale was drafted was his high competitive spirit.

 

[PricerStopDaPuck]

Despite facing an astonishing 12 shots he gets yet another shutout.

 

[JohnnyB11]

Despite facing an astonishing 12 shots he gets yet another shutout.

No offence to Fucale but I was there and I think even I could have got a shutout last night.

 

[saintflannel]

New mask. Great tribute to Shelley, Giguere, Tanguay & Connolly.

 

[George Maharis]

^^^^^^^^

Adding to that, the mask is being auctioned off to raise money for an autism foundation.

 

[DudeWhereIsMakar]

Does anyone think they'll trade him to Quebec with Ehlers? Top goalie in the Q right now as it looks. Halifax is basically going into rebuild, would be a win win, especially since Fucale was in net for the Memorial Cup and has experience there. I say Ehlers wouldn't be a bad addition if he's back next season. I also hate teams that get the Memorial Cup and don't do anything to get there.

 

[wein]

Does anyone think they'll trade him to Quebec with Ehlers? Top goalie in the Q right now as it looks. Halifax is basically going into rebuild, would be a win win, especially since Fucale was in net for the Memorial Cup and has experience there. I say Ehlers wouldn't be a bad addition if he's back next season. I also hate teams that get the Memorial Cup and don't do anything to get there.

Very doubtful he's traded there or at all. Quebec has Brassard right now and the rumours are that they are looking at Auger. I think there are other goalies in the Q that are as good as him that would cost less.

 

[Plastic Joseph]

Does anyone think they'll trade him to Quebec with Ehlers? Top goalie in the Q right now as it looks. Halifax is basically going into rebuild, would be a win win, especially since Fucale was in net for the Memorial Cup and has experience there. I say Ehlers wouldn't be a bad addition if he's back next season. I also hate teams that get the Memorial Cup and don't do anything to get there.

With Ehlers, Fucale, Ryan, Murphy, Gadoury, and many others returning next season, Halifax GM Cam Russell has said he intends to be a competitive team once again.

Given their division and returning core they should have no problem doing so, and surely will not be dealing Fucale or Ehlers.

 

[DudeWhereIsMakar]

I mean Rimouski will be good too. Gauthier and Morin returning. I think Brassard could also be in the pros next year if he wanted.

Only reason I mentioned this is because I cannot stand teams that get a free pass to the Memorial Cup.

 

[Brooklanders*]

Right now Fucale is hit or miss. His ceiling isn't all star but solid number 1.