G Zach Fucale (2013, 36th, MTL)

[3 Minute Minor]

He just got rocked in the first period of the Mooseheads game, pulled, Halfiax went on to win 15-5...

Tough start to the season for him now, 11-5-0 2.85GAA .887Save%

 

[1989]

He just got rocked in the first period of the Mooseheads game, pulled, Halfiax went on to win 15-5...

Tough start to the season for him now, 11-5-0 2.85GAA .887Save%

Just to elaborate, Fucale let in four goals after the first.

Halifax does win 15 to 5, so in the big picture you could say it doesn't matter but it's a pretty bad performance by him.

Wonder why he has started the season so poorly after being so highly touted and drafted in the first round? Don't forget how many people were clamouring for other teams such as New Jersey to pick him up.

 

[3 Minute Minor]

Just to elaborate, Fucale let in four goals after the first.

Halifax does win 15 to 5, so in the big picture you could say it doesn't matter but it's a pretty bad performance by him.

Wonder why he has started the season so poorly after being so highly touted and drafted in the first round? Don't forget how many people were clamouring for other teams such as New Jersey to pick him up.

*2nd round

and I feel a lot better about all the hate I got for downplaying Fucale leading up to the draft and saying I want to see him without a super stacked team

 

[Analyzer*]

Fucale's lack of size worry me a bit, you rarely see a top goaltender that small both in height and weight. Hopefully he gets a late growth spurt.

Fucale isn't very good, but he can make the timely save. Unlike the goalies we've had on team Canada for the past 4 years ?

As a hab fan, I'm hoping he's dealt, but I really, really, really, REALLY doubt he will be.

 

[Ohashi_Jouzu*]

Fucale isn't very good, but he can make the timely save. Unlike the goalies we've had on team Canada for the past 4 years ?

As a hab fan, I'm hoping he's dealt, but I really, really, really, REALLY doubt he will be.

"Isn't very good"? lol. As if you've seen enough of him to be listened to.

 

[Wats]

He just got rocked in the first period of the Mooseheads game, pulled, Halfiax went on to win 15-5...

Tough start to the season for him now, 11-5-0 2.85GAA .887Save%

He was 11-4-0 with 2.50GAA and .899sv% just 2 games ago. Even lower GAA and higher sv% 3 games ago.

Tough week no doubt...this early in the season a good/bad 3 games can skew stats a lot.

 

[3 Minute Minor]

He was 11-4-0 with 2.50GAA and .899sv% just 2 games ago. Even lower GAA and higher sv% 3 games ago.

Tough week no doubt...this early in the season a good/bad 3 games can skew stats a lot.

.899 for a early 2nd round pick who was hyped as much as Fucale is a brutal start, and we're a quarter the way through the season now. Ye it's great to say the numbers are skewed but they're an average of the season in which he's only been over .900Save% in 7 games this season... And he's facing even less shots per game than the last two seasons and people said last year when I brought up the # of shots per game that the shots are all quality shots lol so now that he's facing more, is there more quality shots?

I'm not bashing Fucale and before people jump to "you haven't seen him play", I've seen him probably more than any other goalie in the CHL in the last 5 years. The numbers support what I've seen & they support the fact that he was hugely over hyped and I still like him as a prospect, he was just hugely over hyped and over rated in his draft year.

 

[Ohashi_Jouzu*]

.899 for a early 2nd round pick who was hyped as much as Fucale is a brutal start, and we're a quarter the way through the season now. Ye it's great to say the numbers are skewed but they're an average of the season in which he's only been over .900Save% in 7 games this season... And he's facing even less shots per game than the last two seasons and people said last year when I brought up the # of shots per game that the shots are all quality shots lol so now that he's facing more, is there more quality shots?

I'm not bashing Fucale and before people jump to "you haven't seen him play", I've seen him probably more than any other goalie in the CHL in the last 5 years. The numbers support what I've seen & they support the fact that he was hugely over hyped and I still like him as a prospect, he was just hugely over hyped and over rated in his draft year.

And if I pointed out that the bulk of the goals being scored against Fucale recently were on the PK, which no longer features Abeltshauser, would it make a difference to you? Two of the four in the 1st period last night. Three of the five the night before (and one shorthanded goal, too, so figure that out). Probably not important that he continues to become better at breakaways, either, allowing only 1 goal on 13 shootout attempts so far this year.

But it's those who watch him play and practice that rank him the highest, not spreadsheet detectives with a smattering of television viewings. Why is Fucale the subject of criticism all of a sudden, though?

 

[Patmac40]

He has to be better than he has been the last couple games. But overall he's been good. What doesn't help is that a lot of the goals come off of defensive scrambles where the Moose dmen collapse right in his sight-line and as he tries to fight to see the puck it's already past him. There have been way too many goals that his defensemen don't give him a chance on.

 

[Wats]

.899 for a early 2nd round pick who was hyped as much as Fucale is a brutal start, and we're a quarter the way through the season now. Ye it's great to say the numbers are skewed but they're an average of the season in which he's only been over .900Save% in 7 games this season... And he's facing even less shots per game than the last two seasons and people said last year when I brought up the # of shots per game that the shots are all quality shots lol so now that he's facing more, is there more quality shots?

I'm not bashing Fucale and before people jump to "you haven't seen him play", I've seen him probably more than any other goalie in the CHL in the last 5 years. The numbers support what I've seen & they support the fact that he was hugely over hyped and I still like him as a prospect, he was just hugely over hyped and over rated in his draft year.

Did you bother to even look where a .900 sv% ranks in the Q among starting goalies?

 

[3 Minute Minor]

And if I pointed out that the bulk of the goals being scored against Fucale recently were on the PK, which no longer features Abeltshauser, would it make a difference to you? Two of the four in the 1st period last night. Three of the five the night before (and one shorthanded goal, too, so figure that out). Probably not important that he continues to become better at breakaways, either, allowing only 1 goal on 13 shootout attempts so far this year.

But it's those who watch him play and practice that rank him the highest, not spreadsheet detectives with a smattering of television viewings. Why is Fucale the subject of criticism all of a sudden, though?

-I said I've watched him play a bunch and you resort to the always awesome "you don't watch him enough", but I like how you turned it to "television viewings", that's new.

-It's not all of a sudden, go back to April and read the conversations, I was kind of preparing for Fucale to struggle the way he has based on watching him & the numbers not being very impressive on average.

-You make a ton of excuses for Fucale and it's hilarious because it's always what happens when fans talk about their prospects. You act like no other goalie in the entire world lets in goals while killing penalties. Hate to break it to you but Fucale is not the exception to numbers... not to mention there's even Halifax fans that are worried about his play thus far

 

[Wats]

-I said I've watched him play a bunch and you resort to the always awesome "you don't watch him enough", but I like how you turned it to "television viewings", that's new.

-It's not all of a sudden, go back to April and read the conversations, I was kind of preparing for Fucale to struggle the way he has based on watching him & the numbers not being very impressive on average.

-You make a ton of excuses for Fucale and it's hilarious because it's always what happens when fans talk about their prospects. You act like no other goalie in the entire world lets in goals while killing penalties. Hate to break it to you but Fucale is not the exception to numbers... not to mention there's even Halifax fans that are worried about his play thus far

In other words, you saw he finally had a couple bad games and felt you wouldn't have a better opportunity to try and try to show you were right.

 

[3 Minute Minor]

Did you bother to even look where a .900 sv% ranks in the Q among starting goalies?

So because average QMJHL goalies are bad Fucale is still good while being bad?

Among drafted goalies SAPG = Shots Against per game:

Antoine Bibeau (Round 6, Pick 172): 11GP 5-3-2 3.18GAA .916Save% - 38.0 SAPG

Fracois Brassard (Round 6, Pick 166): 15GP 6-4-3 3.41GAA .898Save% - 33.4 SAPG

Brandon Whitney (Round 7, Pick 191): 15GP 3.46 7-7-1 3.46GAA .897Save% - 33.7 SAPG

Zach Fucale (Round 2, Pick 36): 17GP 11-5-0 2.85GAA .887Save% - 25.2 SAPG

Francois Tremblay (Round 5, Pick 146): 12GP 6-6-0 3.60GAA .865Save% - 26.8 SAPG

Alex Belanger (Round 7, Pick 200): 11GP 7-2-0 3.99GAA .864Save% - 29.3 SAPG


So they're all facing more work per game than Fucale and only 2 have worse Save%. Notice the pick used on all the goalies though lol none of them were picked in the top 140 let alone top 40. There's a number of undrafted goalies doing better than Fucale too. He's not even in the top 15 right now in this 18 team league.

 

[3 Minute Minor]

In other words, you saw he finally had a couple bad games and felt you wouldn't have a better opportunity to try and try to show you were right.

If that's what you need to believe to ignore your guys poor play, so be it.

 

[Wats]

So because average QMJHL goalies are bad Fucale is still good while being bad?

Among drafted goalies SAPG = Shots Against per game:

Antoine Bibeau (Round 6, Pick 172): 11GP 5-3-2 3.18GAA .916Save% - 38.0 SAPG

Fracois Brassard (Round 6, Pick 166): 15GP 6-4-3 3.41GAA .898Save% - 33.4 SAPG

Brandon Whitney (Round 7, Pick 191): 15GP 3.46 7-7-1 3.46GAA .897Save% - 33.7 SAPG

Zach Fucale (Round 2, Pick 36): 17GP 11-5-0 2.85GAA .887Save% - 25.2 SAPG

Francois Tremblay (Round 5, Pick 146): 12GP 6-6-0 3.60GAA .865Save% - 26.8 SAPG

Alex Belanger (Round 7, Pick 200): 11GP 7-2-0 3.99GAA .864Save% - 29.3 SAPG


So they're all facing more work per game than Fucale and only 2 have worse Save%. Notice the pick used on all the goalies though lol none of them were picked in the top 140 let alone top 40. There's a number of undrafted goalies doing better than Fucale too. He's not even in the top 15 right now in this 18 team league.

So is this an admittance to not knowing that a low .900sv% is actually good in the Q? That alone shows your stat scouting was void of context to begin with. Furthermore, the fact you stated that you are 'right' about Fucale suggests any argument with you is useless since you already have a preconceived idea of what you think of Fucale and your goal is to for whatever reason be seen as 'right'. See for example you suddenly straying away from disagreeing that he had good numbers going into the week and rehash what I already said was true - the couple bad games hurt his season stats but he had a really good start to the season before that.

But hey, if these couple games and his current stats are what you need to make you feel better about your predraft opinion on him good on you.

 

[3 Minute Minor]

So is this an admittance to not knowing that a low .900sv% is actually good in the Q? That alone shows your stat scouting was void of context to begin with. Furthermore, the fact you stated that you are 'right' about Fucale suggests any argument with you is useless since you already have a preconceived idea of what you think of Fucale and your goal is to for whatever reason be seen as 'right'. See for example you suddenly straying away from disagreeing that he had good numbers going into the week and rehash what I already said was true - the couple bad games hurt his season stats but he had a really good start to the season before that.

But hey, if these couple games and his current stats are what you need to make you feel better about your predraft opinion on him good on you.

And again those goalies are all late round picks compared to Fucales 36th overall... And I never said all those goalies are doing well lol There's other goalies with .900Save%+ in the Q... Also said I've watched Fucale play multiple times this season. If you've watched him often then you should be able to admit that he's had a bad quarter season so far.


by the way, that's a cute use of ' ' when I never said the word right (outside of saying 'right now') I also said now like I said predraft that I still like Fucale as a prospect but you're being too overdefensive of your guy to see that. Typical fan in prospects thread stuff really.

 

[Wats]

And again those goalies are all late round picks compared to Fucales 36th overall... And I never said all those goalies are doing well lol There's other goalies with .900Save%+ in the Q... Also said I've watched Fucale play multiple times this season. If you've watched him often then you should be able to admit that he's had a bad quarter season so far.


by the way, that's a cute use of ' ' when I never said the word right (outside of saying 'right now') I also said now like I said predraft that I still like Fucale as a prospect but you're being too overdefensive of your guy to see that. Typical fan in prospects thread stuff really.

Hey whatever helps you "feel better" about the hate you got:

*2nd round

and I feel a lot better about all the hate I got for downplaying Fucale leading up to the draft and saying I want to see him without a super stacked team

 

[Ohashi_Jouzu*]

-I said I've watched him play a bunch and you resort to the always awesome "you don't watch him enough", but I like how you turned it to "television viewings", that's new.

-It's not all of a sudden, go back to April and read the conversations, I was kind of preparing for Fucale to struggle the way he has based on watching him & the numbers not being very impressive on average.

-You make a ton of excuses for Fucale and it's hilarious because it's always what happens when fans talk about their prospects. You act like no other goalie in the entire world lets in goals while killing penalties. Hate to break it to you but Fucale is not the exception to numbers... not to mention there's even Halifax fans that are worried about his play thus far

Halifax fans are worried? As if I'm unaware that there are bi-polar, sky is falling fans to be found everywhere. "Fire everyone!" after two games, "So-and-so is a bust!" after a week, etc. Anyone familiar enough with goaltending technique to get into it will give Fucale tremendous credit for his. Certainly doesn't have any more holes in his game than any other current high profile goaltending prospects who get talked about a lot. Heck, not many of them seem as exciting to talk about in the first place, so... With his ability to handle high pressure and perform when it matters, and the way he approaches preparation and training, he projects to be a very good goalie at even higher levels.

But maybe I'll roll with the spreadsheet analysis of "Fucale is no exception to the numbers" instead.... Sorry, but my first favourite goaltender growing up was Pelle Lindbergh, who looked "average" by his WC/Olympic numbers before coming over to North America (somewhat of a boy among men, admittedly), and my next one was Patrick Roy, who rocked a 4.49 GAA and 0.873 SV% in his draft year. So I learned long ago that the exact numbers don't matter nearly as much as how you go about putting them up, and that actually watching players is important, as is understanding what you're seeing, obviously.

 

[3 Minute Minor]

Halifax fans are worried? As if I'm unaware that there are bi-polar, sky is falling fans to be found everywhere. "Fire everyone!" after two games, "So-and-so is a bust!" after a week, etc. Anyone familiar enough with goaltending technique to get into it will give Fucale tremendous credit for his. Certainly doesn't have any more holes in his game than any other current high profile goaltending prospects who get talked about a lot. Heck, not many of them seem as exciting to talk about in the first place, so... With his ability to handle high pressure and perform when it matters, and the way he approaches preparation and training, he projects to be a very good goalie at even higher levels.

But maybe I'll roll with the spreadsheet analysis of "Fucale is no exception to the numbers" instead.... Sorry, but my first favourite goaltender growing up was Pelle Lindbergh, who looked "average" by his WC/Olympic numbers before coming over to North America (somewhat of a boy among men, admittedly), and my next one was Patrick Roy, who rocked a 4.49 GAA and 0.873 SV% in his draft year. So I learned long ago that the exact numbers don't matter nearly as much as how you go about putting them up, and that actually watching players is important, as is understanding what you're seeing, obviously.

That's cool but it's not the 1980s anymore...

I don't think it's any coincidence that there are only Halifax residents/fans or Habs fans defending a player tooth & nail at any sight of any criticism, even when it comes with lines like 'I still like Fucale as a prospect'

 

[Ohashi_Jouzu*]

That's cool but it's not the 1980s anymore...

I don't think it's any coincidence that there are only Halifax residents/fans or Habs fans defending a player tooth & nail at any sight of any criticism, even when it comes with lines like 'I still like Fucale as a prospect'

Yeah, it's only Halifax residents or Habs fans. I think it's most telling when someone offers absolutely zero in way of critique on his qualities or abilities, and simply defaults to "he's no exception to the numbers"... If you haven't had enough of a chance to see what makes Fucale special, the numbers aren't going to help you bridge the gap in your understanding, that's for sure.

 

[3 Minute Minor]

Yeah, it's only Halifax residents or Habs fans. I think it's most telling when someone offers absolutely zero in way of critique on his qualities or abilities, and simply defaults to "he's no exception to the numbers"... If you haven't had enough of a chance to see what makes Fucale special, the numbers aren't going to help you bridge the gap in your understanding, that's for sure.

Why?

-If I say his rebound control still needs work, I'll be told I don't watch him play enough.
-If I say ye, he's seemingly unfazed by anything that happens during a game but his focus is still questionable (results in weak goals). I'll be told that none of the goals scored on him are weak, he just faces 15-20 amazing scoring chances a night and no weak shots to help inflate his stats

 

[Ohashi_Jouzu*]

Why?

-If I say his rebound control still needs work, I'll be told I don't watch him play enough.
-If I say ye, he's seemingly unfazed by anything that happens during a game but his focus is still questionable (results in weak goals). I'll be told that none of the goals scored on him are weak, he just faces 15-20 amazing scoring chances a night and no weak shots to help inflate his stats

And yet, I'll still expect you to at least frame this within the perspective of any of his contemporary comparables, or goalies that have come before him. Guess what, every 18 year old player has to "improve" a whole lot of their game. If you're disappointed by any particular aspect of his game or technique, I expect you to frame it within the expectations of anyone else that you'd put under the same microscope. Which, to tie into what you've provided specifically above:

1) What's is your problem with his rebound control, specifically? Does he allow more than any other goalies? Doese he seem less able to steer them toward safe areas or defenders than other goalies you watch? Are they the result of poorer initial positioning compared to other goalies? Slower reactions to shots? Decision-making or technique? Simply saying "he needs to improve __________" without any meaningful perspective is useless unless you can explain how shortcomings in that area are holding his development or team(s)' fortune(s) back?

2) Are the "weak" goals due to limitations of technique, or focus? I haven't really see that many "weak goals" from him, especially compared to other goalies I've seen in the same position over the years (I was a season ticket holder during the Giguere years, to give you an idea of how long my perspective on Mooseheads goalies goes back). I find he gets beaten to the glove a bit often because of how he positions it for his butterfly and lateral slide, but at the same time I'm not going to call goals weak if opposing players simply find corners when they have to, for example.

But yeah, in short, the more you watch of him and other goalies, the less those things you've identified as weaknesses here actually weigh seriously against him in a level comparison across the board.

 

[Stoneberg]

Why?

-If I say his rebound control still needs work, I'll be told I don't watch him play enough.
-If I say ye, he's seemingly unfazed by anything that happens during a game but his focus is still questionable (results in weak goals). I'll be told that none of the goals scored on him are weak, he just faces 15-20 amazing scoring chances a night and no weak shots to help inflate his stats

Well your first point is plain wrong and probably stems from not seeing him enough...so what else do you want people who've seen him well over 100 in times in person, like myself, to say? His rebound control has improved each eason to a point this season that I'd say it's a stregnth relative to other goalies in the Q.

It definitely appears that you are completely unaware of just how many times the Mem Cup Champs hung him out to dry last year, whether it be bad pinches leading to odd man rushes, or blown coverage and giveaways in the defensive zone leading to point blank chances in the slot. It was an issue night in and night out, we just outscored all our problems, something that a casual observer probably wouldn't have realized. Obviously you're example is exaggerated, but I'd definitely say the ratio of good scoring chances to easy shots that Fucale faces is irregular. Its tough when you don't see a shot for 5 mins and then face a 2 on 1, or a guy in the slot that your dman gave it to.

Either way he doesn't allow many weak goals anymore (since his rookie year, really), so your second point is moot.

 

[3 Minute Minor]

I can have this entire conversation with myself, homers are so predictable lol

Well he's off to an amazing start to the season I guess, apparently I haven't seen him enough to know better!!!!!!!! I guess we'll just have to sit here and watch as he goes on to greatness seeing as he has no weaknesses in his game!

 

[Ohashi_Jouzu*]

I can have this entire conversation with myself, homers are so predictable lol

Well he's off to an amazing start to the season I guess, apparently I haven't seen him enough to know better!!!!!!!! I guess we'll just have to sit here and watch as he goes on to greatness seeing as he has no weaknesses in his game!

Yes, you can continue the ridiculous hyperbole with yourself. Continuing to watch more games is a good idea, though.