Speculation: Friedman: "At the deadline I heard that several Jets players asked to be traded"

[Andy6]

Sure, and I'm not advocating that Ville gets a guaranteed spot because of his pedigree or talent or a brief stretch of excellent play. But I think you would agree that this org has a history of blocking prospect paths with less-than-great vets, especially on D, which has now complicated those paths significantly. We have run plugs like Sbisa, Bitetto, Benn, Beaulieu -- the list goes on -- when we could have spent some time evaluating where our prospects were heading and then integrating them in a meaningful way.

Maybe our prospects are heading toward being plugs. They can probably evaluate that well enough outside of game action. All kidding aside, you're probably right that they've erred on the side of caution a bit too much. The Jets do seem to want to be a very methodical organization characterized by long-term commitments and long-term thinking. That will probably get you a solid upper-middle class team most of the time (as it has) but it could be that a gambler's approach is more likely to win a Stanley Cup. The problem is that in a small market it's hard to take a gambler's approach because the season-ticket and corporate support bases are too soft to sustain the years-long rebuilding phases that are inevitably a part of that (see Chicago for example).

 

[Ducky10]

I think it's the other way - that Heinola has more latitude to request (not demand) a trade.

With Heinola, the team is more likely to go "yeah, we don't have many plans for ya, we'll see what we can do".

With a, I dunno, Ehlers, the team is more likely to say "Sorry Nik, you're an important part of our team. You're under contract and we're keeping you".

Request? Sure, but I don’t think most young players are that self indulgent tbh. My guess is Heinola knows he has a lot to prove, he just wants a chance to prove it, in a fair environment. It’s of course up to the Jets to show him he’ll be given that opportunity. I think they will personally.

 

[Yukon Joe]

Request? Sure, but I don’t think most young players are that self indulgent tbh. My guess is Heinola knows he has a lot to prove, he just wants a chance to prove it, in a fair environment. It’s of course up to the Jets to show him he’ll be given that opportunity. I think they will personally.

My impression is that bubble players (or rather their agents) frequently are more vocal. The "My client just wants a chance to prove himself. If you don't think there's room on the big club can I help you find a trade partner so he can get his shot"?

Which is not demanding a trade, and not going public.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

What gets me is if true, how SOFT and WHINY this group is. It's one bad season and they implode like this. There was much more losing and things were much harder during the early years of Jets 2.0 with the Buff/Wheeler/Ladd/Little/Enstrom group and no one was behaving like this and openly being so whiny (other than Kane who as his own situation).

If it wasn't for PLD I'd say bring in John Torterella and unleash him on this group. This is absolutely embarrassing and looks really bad on these players, it is one thing to have a losing season it is another to have a losing season and be exposed as a bunch of whiners.

If what Elliotte is saying is true then I hope names are named and we get a full explanation of what is going on.

Its the accumulated effect of having kept PMo around for 3 years too long. Players misused, players not put in positions to succeed, players not held accountable, etc. Then compounded by the coaching change - HC quits? Interim HC makes little change?

Post automatically merged: May 3, 2022

Interesting. Kinda makes sense now why you'd keep Chevy. Too much Kaos and change and without some that understands the dynamics well might be a disaster. Could be one already.

Kinda sounds like it is a disaster - and it happened on Chevy's watch. Are you sure he is the man you want trying to fix it?

 

[The Blue Baron]

Given it all to this team? Upset about not appealing the suspension?

I'm not sure man. We must have been watching another hockey team the past few years. Scheifele has been going through the motions for years now and has been able to get away with it from a coach who let the inmates run the asylum for far too long.

Cheat for offense, refuse to play defense in his own end, and most importantly, never get dogged for it by your coach. Sounds like a pretty sweet gig to me and one that I'm sure most players who don't give a shit in the league about winning would take in a heartbeat.

Scheifele has nobody to blame but himself. The problem is that these past years, and especially now in the past few days, exemplifies to me that he has little to no self awareness of the situation.

He is a leader on this team. Instead of crying about "direction" of this team and pouting -- he should look in the mirror and realize he has the talent and ability to be a main piece to help right the ship.

It's always everybody's fault around 55 and never his.

BRAVO! Totally correct sir!

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Thinking out loud here, but if we were to move Scheifele for Barzal, Helle for Mercer and 5OA, and then sign a half decent goalie in free agency…

are we better suited to provide long-term support for the PLD, Connor, Morrissey, Ehlers core than we are today?

Our D is still not good enough. We are looking pretty strong up front and in our prospect pool - if we could get that.

I don't think Isles do that. Maybe Scheifele for Nelson +, if we are looking for a C.

NJD might pay pretty highly for a real NHL goalie, but not that high. We'd be doing well to get either one of those pieces.

If we could get Mercer, he becomes 2C. Go after Pulock from Isles. We still need a goalie if we are supporting that core.

 

[tbcwpg]

Our D is still not good enough. We are looking pretty strong up front and in our prospect pool - if we could get that.

I don't think Isles do that. Maybe Scheifele for Nelson +, if we are looking for a C.

NJD might pay pretty highly for a real NHL goalie, but not that high. We'd be doing well to get either one of those pieces.

If we could get Mercer, he becomes 2C. Go after Pulock from Isles. We still need a goalie if we are supporting that core.

The D is good enough to make noise in the playoffs. The team has no defensive structure.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

As player salaries increased the incentive to give 100% decreased, players across all sports are detached from reality and most have a me over team attitude!

Don't know that I would agree with that entirely but there seems to be even more entitlement than there used to be. I think the guaranteed contracts have even more to do with that than the multi-million $ deals. But both play a part.

I think they all still want to win. But maybe instead of sticking with a team and working hard to be part of building a winner, they would rather have it handed to them by being traded to a winner.

Edit: BTW, out of all those players around the league who think they want to be traded how many do you think would mean that they want to be traded to a contender?

 

[surixon]

Don't know that I would agree with that entirely but there seems to be even more entitlement than there used to be. I think the guaranteed contracts have even more to do with that than the multi-million $ deals. But both play a part.

I think they all still want to win. But maybe instead of sticking with a team and working hard to be part of building a winner, they would rather have it handed to them by being traded to a winner.

Basketball is where this happens all the damn time.

 

[LowLefty]

Sure, and I'm not advocating that Ville gets a guaranteed spot because of his pedigree or talent or a brief stretch of excellent play. But I think you would agree that this org has a history of blocking prospect paths with less-than-great vets, especially on D, which has now complicated those paths significantly. We have run plugs like Sbisa, Bitetto, Benn, Beaulieu -- the list goes on -- when we could have spent some time evaluating where our prospects were heading and then integrating them in a meaningful way.

Had Samberg been evaluated last season and shown himself to be capable of a Dillon role in the top 6, then do we go out and buy Dillon? Had Heinola been given enough games next to Pionk, say, and shown himself to be a capable PMD who can add offence at ES and on the PP, and play a responsible enough D game, do we spend picks and a decent chunk of cap on years of Schmidt?

My point is not that Heinola must play -- although I think we're getting to that point -- but that the team shot itself in the foot by failing to properly evaluate its own D talent and then going big on guys with term who will be tricky to move, instead of looking for expiring contracts or (even better) getting equivalent or better performance form their own prospects while realizing savings with ELCs they could then put towards filling in holes on F -- or maybe even overpaying for a Copp.

For the record, Ville seems like a smart, hard-working kid who has perhaps found an excellent mentor in Schmidt, and I see no evidence that he's out there banging the drum for a trade. But the Jets have not covered themselves with glory in terms of thinking years ahead to ensure that their best prospects have roles they can fill if they make the grade, which is crucial for a contending team in the cap era, IMO.

Also, while I was a Stanley booster for a long time, I'm getting really tired of hearing from insiders how "committed" the org is to Stanley. Forget commitment. Either he's good enough to be the best 5-7 D option you have in your closet, or you move on, however 6'7" he is. He was meh to crap for most of this season. Enough already.

Stan and Ville will likely continue to be evaluated by the org under new coaching - the assumption by most is that better coaching and better systems will help players.
At that point, we probably get a better idea of who is fodder and who is the real deal - IMO, we wait for that before proclaiming anything about either of these players.

I find it ironic that we all blast the org for terrible coaching, systems, locker room health, selfish individuals, and so on - and then turn on the players as if they should have over come all of that - especially the young ones that might need a bit of all those things before we place them on a pedestal or write them off.

I's rhetoric to the extreme - that's what I'm getting really tired of.

 

[BoneDocUK]

Stan and Ville will likely continue to be evaluated by the org under new coaching - the assumption by most is that better coaching and better systems will help players.
At that point, we probably get a better idea of who is fodder and who is the real deal - IMO, we wait for that before proclaiming anything about either of these players.

I find it ironic that we all blast the org for terrible coaching, systems, locker room health, selfish individuals, and so on - and then turn on the players as if they should have over come all of that - especially the young ones that might need a bit of all those things before we place them on a pedestal or write them off.

I's rhetoric to the extreme - that's what I'm getting really tired of.

I agree with this 100% -- have commented on it many times, especially with prospects. Mystifies me. Always has.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

The D is good enough to make noise in the playoffs. The team has no defensive structure.

Possibly - with the coaching we have had, it may be a little hard to tell.
Dillon out and Samberg in is a small improvement (may be a big improvement after he has a couple of years under his belt, but not right away). It saves some money and cap.

Heinola at 3LD? I think the success of that might be influenced by who his partner is. I like DeMelo there. I also like DeMelo with Morrissey, but I think he is more valuable sheltering Heinola.

I thought Schmidt was good earlier in the year playing with Morrissey. Both seemed to play well together. I don't think Schmidt is ideal there. But the pair was more than adequate.

With the players we have now, I think this is our best usage:
JMo - Schmidt
Samberg - Pionk
Heinola - DeMelo

But I would much prefer our D with a legit 1RD and Schmidt and his cap hit gone.
Morrissey - Pulock
Samberg - Pionk
Heinola - DeMelo
is a D corps I could get excited about. Now add an upgraded coaching staff and we might have something.

Post automatically merged: May 3, 2022

Basketball is where this happens all the damn time.

Yeah, basketball went nuts with Free Agency. Even contracts with term can be walked away from.

 

[SSC4me]

Hey Friedman, my garden of fuxx is barren.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I hope that is all it is, I mean I would say the same thing if I was him. Its more then just about money & term as he said which is very true. I make a very good salary and have for many years......but money is likely about #4-5 on my priority list when evaluating job offers. I can say this from firsthand experience is money doesn't make you happy.

While I agree that money doesn't make you happy, it is easier to say that when you have money (enough).

Lack of money can bring a lot of unhappiness. But we are talking about a group who all have quite a bit of money, though some a lot more than others.

 

[DRW204]

Request? Sure, but I don’t think most young players are that self indulgent tbh. My guess is Heinola knows he has a lot to prove, he just wants a chance to prove it, in a fair environment. It’s of course up to the Jets to show him he’ll be given that opportunity. I think they will personally.

Heinola has no chance here unless there's trades. We played sbisa, bitetto, Forbort, Beaulieu for months on end over him, now the nhl depth chart is even better with Dillon and Schmidts additions which one of those vets is he playing over? He couldn't make the lineup or get a shot when the depth chart sucked. But now who does he replace?

Then consider they view Stanley as a superior player. So heinola is way down the depth chart - barring trades.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

The one guy I am not sure of is Helly. I heard rumblings of him not being happy in Winnipeg and Canada in general. I also believe his wife is from the States and that might factor in as well

I think he was unhappy with some of the Covid requirements. They are ancient history now.

A lot of players have wives from the States. I don't think that is an issue. An unhappy wife would be an issue, but I don't think that is necessarily about borders. But if Helle is traded, I see Edmonton as the most likely landing spot.

Post automatically merged: May 3, 2022

Well you could clearly tell he wasn't happy with how COVID was handled here. It wouldn't be that surprising if that soured a lot of players to Canada.

OTOH - Everybody should be soured on the way it was (mis)handled in the US.

 

[jgimp]

The D is good enough to make noise in the playoffs. The team has no defensive structure.

This. We could essentially run 3 lines of T4 Dmen with JoMo playing at a T2 level. We just lack a real, true impact #1 ala Hedman/McAvoy.
Fixing our defensive structure would go a long way in minimizing wear and tear on Helly and giving our forwards more o-zone time.
In the meantime, try to trade up to grab Jiricek or nab as many RHD as we can like Rinzel, Chesley, Warren etc etc in hopes one of them can develop into a top pair guy barring them being BPA at that pick.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

If I were Heinola, I would ask for a trade for the way he’s been handled.

Too soon. He only just turned 21.
Not that I disagree that he has been handled poorly. But I think it would take another year like this one before he would reach that stage.

 

[bustamente]

Just based on this season and how it played out I would say the chances of Stastny coming back are slime and none, to bad 3rd line centre had his name written all over it, maybe the coach might entice him to come back but as of now I don't think Winnipeg is on his radar for next year, hope I'm wrong.,

 

[rubikscube]

Heinola has no chance here unless there's trades. We played sbisa, bitetto, Forbort, Beaulieu for months on end over him, now the nhl depth chart is even better with Dillon and Schmidts additions which one of those vets is he playing over? He couldn't make the lineup or get a shot when the depth chart sucked. But now who does he replace?

Then consider they view Stanley as a superior player. So heinola is way down the depth chart - barring trades.

Heinola was like 18-19 years old then. He didn't belong anywhere near the Jets at that time.

 

[stimpsoncat]

Just based on this season and how it played out I would say the chances of Stastny coming back are slime and none, to bad 3rd line centre had his name written all over it, maybe the coach might entice him to come back but as of now I don't think Winnipeg is on his radar for next year, hope I'm wrong.,

Assuming we hire a coach that will entertain the thought of anyone other than Adam Lowry in that role, I'd love to see Stastny sign one more year as our 3C.

 

[Ducky10]

Heinola has no chance here unless there's trades. We played sbisa, bitetto, Forbort, Beaulieu for months on end over him, now the nhl depth chart is even better with Dillon and Schmidts additions which one of those vets is he playing over? He couldn't make the lineup or get a shot when the depth chart sucked. But now who does he replace?

Then consider they view Stanley as a superior player. So heinola is way down the depth chart - barring trades.

I’ll take a more wait and see approach, your pov is understandable though. Personally I think they will make some moves. It wouldn’t surprise me to see Dillon move on with the emergence of Samberg and I don’t think the org is going to remain wedded to Stanley much longer. I think Ville will push hard for a roster spot this Fall.
All depends on who they bring in to coach though. A more forward thinking coach who sees play as a 5 man unit will likely prefer a guy like Heinola. Another dinosaur and it will likely end up the way you’ve described.

I get the cynical take though, it’s the way this org has rolled for 4 years.

 

[DRW204]

Heinola was like 18-19 years old then. He didn't belong anywhere near the Jets at that time.

Did sbisa, forbrot, bealieu et al belong anywhere on the Jets given their performances. Maybe if he played instead of sitting on the taxi squad he'd have been even further along this year. Ditto for Samberg during that timeframe too. Even moreso since he's older by two years.

Regardless he isn't playing on this team next year unless there is trades which is my main point.

 

[DRW204]

Assuming we hire a coach that will entertain the thought of anyone other than Adam Lowry in that role, I'd love to see Stastny sign one more year as our 3C.

We don't have good enough wingers for a third scoring line anymore. I think we'll unfortunately see Lowry is the 3c and another shut down line (that really didn't shut anyone down this year...). And Stastny apparently is more likely to sign elsewhere according to Murat.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

IF it is really as bad as its being portrayed then I have to walk back any support I have ever expressed for Chevy. It makes that 3 year extension look really bad. OTOH, could he possibly have been extended for 3 years if it really is that bad?

This could really be nothing more than the kind of rumbling and grumbling that is to be expected after such a disappointing season. Talk to the same players in another week or two and the story might sound quite different.