Speculation: Friedman: "At the deadline I heard that several Jets players asked to be traded"

[SensibleGuy]

NHL is an RFA league not a UFA league. Virtually all contenders are/were built on the players they drafted. By the time a high-priced player hits UFA they are not worth the contract they get. I would argue the location has actually helped Chevy by preventing him from signing crippling contracts- we know that Chevy in the past tried to sign guys like Alzner/Nesterov. Maybe it prevents you from adding a "nice to have" at the deadline once every few years when a Manson blocks a trade but it certainly isn't the difference between icing a team that can contend vs what the Jets have been for most of their lifespan. In hindsight, I wish Dillon had Winnipeg on his NTC.

I don't think it's a particularly great thing if all the young stars we draft are constantly wishing they were someplace else. I'm certainly not saying it's an excuse for management at all...it's an NHL franchise and it's their job to find ways to make it work. If they don't, they should be sent packing. I think Chevy has had his chance frankly and sort of wish someone new were on the way. But there's no denying Winnipeg is a harder sell in terms of getting and keeping talent here than almost any other franchise.

 

[Joe Hallenback]

Have we ever had a major UFA signing?

Just look at something like this

To sign Statsny we had to pay. The Leafs could sign Spezza to a nothing contract and everyone thinks GENIUS

That is what we are dealing with here

Saying that it doesn't excuse coaching and the locker room stuff either. But that idea we are the SAME as a city like Toronto or Miami is Stupid with a capital S

 

[Huffer]

Have we ever had a major UFA signing?

Just look at something like this

To sign Statsny we had to pay. The Leafs could sign Spezza to a nothing contract and everyone thinks GENIUS

That is what we are dealing with here

Saying that it doesn't excuse coaching and the locker room stuff either. But that idea we are the SAME as a city like Toronto or Miami is Stupid with a capital S

Hey! Olli Jokinnen was the #1 UFA C at the time!

But I hear what you're saying, we don't get the easy tap ins for sure.

 

[tbcwpg]

Have we ever had a major UFA signing?

Just look at something like this

To sign Statsny we had to pay. The Leafs could sign Spezza to a nothing contract and everyone thinks GENIUS

That is what we are dealing with here

Saying that it doesn't excuse coaching and the locker room stuff either. But that idea we are the SAME as a city like Toronto or Miami is Stupid with a capital S

"Wow the Leafs just got grittier and some experience signing Spezza and Simmonds for cheap. That Dubas!"

It's way easier for a team like Toronto or New York to pull themselves out of a hole than it is for the Winnipegs, Buffalos, and Ottawas of the world.

 

[cbcwpg]

Have we ever had a major UFA signing?

Just look at something like this

To sign Statsny we had to pay. The Leafs could sign Spezza to a nothing contract and everyone thinks GENIUS

That is what we are dealing with here

Saying that it doesn't excuse coaching and the locker room stuff either. But that idea we are the SAME as a city like Toronto or Miami is Stupid with a capital S

2012 Olli Jokinen - 2 years - $9,000,000 pretty major at the time

2016 Shawn Matthias - 2 years - $4,250,000

2021 Paul Statsny - 1 year - $3,750,000 a good signing

- yeah, we don't do major.

 

[DRW204]

NHL is an RFA league not a UFA league. Virtually all contenders are/were built on the players they drafted. By the time a high-priced player hits UFA they are not worth the contract they get. I would argue the location has actually helped Chevy by preventing him from signing crippling contracts- we know that Chevy in the past tried to sign guys like Alzner/Nesterov. Maybe it prevents you from adding a "nice to have" at the deadline once every few years when a Manson blocks a trade but it certainly isn't the difference between icing a team that can contend vs what the Jets have been for most of their lifespan. In hindsight, I wish Dillon had Winnipeg on his NTC.

How you forget Andrew Ladd my dude??? Turned down a 6*6m from Chevy.

Fully agree with your other points.

 

[JetsFan815]

Have we ever had a major UFA signing?

Just look at something like this

To sign Statsny we had to pay. The Leafs could sign Spezza to a nothing contract and everyone thinks GENIUS

That is what we are dealing with here

Saying that it doesn't excuse coaching and the locker room stuff either. But that idea we are the SAME as a city like Toronto or Miami is Stupid with a capital S

These are sad excuses for management with a captial S and loser thinking. By this analysis we also need to include the horrific contracts that Chevy tried to sign but failed (Alzner, Nestorov, Michael Stone). Most UFAs are not worth it. This is an RFA league, signing a UFA is not the difference between being a contender and the state they are in today.

There are many Spezza type undervalued guys in the league traded or signing for league minimum or close to league minimum contracts every year without any location preference who are just happy to play in the league. The Jets have completely and utterly failed to acquire any one of those guys, what is the Jets excuse for not claiming Kylington? What is the Jets excuse to not acquire Devon Toews and then paying that exact same price for a much worse & older player in Dillon? What is the Jets excuse to not acquire Verhege who signed for league minimum?

What is the Jets excuse for wasting 1st round picks for 1 year solutions instead of using that same asset to help them acquire a player who is signed for a couple more years like Tampa/Toronto have done? If the Jets are so hard in to acquire why are they then wasting 1st round picks on your Kevin Hayes of the world throwing away 3rd round and later picks like candy?

I blame the current state of the Jets squarely on the Jets, anything else is making excuses for the management. You cannot be spending to the cap and then whining and making excuses about "location".

How you forget Andrew Ladd my dude??? Turned down a 6*6m from Chevy.

Fully agree with your other points.

oof that was a big miss on my part. And the crazy part is that management was "choosing" between which one of Buff or Ladd to sign that season.

 

[JetsFan815]

I don't think it's a particularly great thing if all the young stars we draft are constantly wishing they were someplace else. I'm certainly not saying it's an excuse for management at all...it's an NHL franchise and it's their job to find ways to make it work. If they don't, they should be sent packing. I think Chevy has had his chance frankly and sort of wish someone new were on the way. But there's no denying Winnipeg is a harder sell in terms of getting and keeping talent here than almost any other franchise.

Those same young stars all signed long term deals, many of them actually signed their deals at lower contract value than their peers (Ehlers signing for more term and lower AAV than Nylander with the exact same stats). Connor signing for almost 3million less than Marner from the same draft while having similar point production. This argument may make sense if the league was built on UFAs with player prime years being 28-32, but it's not. The prime years of an NHL'r are 21-25 with a steady dropoff thereafter. Given the team control the RFA structure provides, I see the market having minimal impact on the fate of a team.

 

[GumbyCan2]

Our head coach is mostly to blame for this mess! He allowed Wheeler to rule the roost and allowed Scheifele do as he pleased. Never any repercussions for those two.

Can't exonnerate the GM in so far as allowing this to fester and still keep his job with a bonafide extension to boot. Chevy better find the right "heavy" to run the ice and the locker, or this _hit-show will continue and start stinking seriously! Chevy will be the next "extended contracted fully supported and approve the owner(s) to then walk out/ quit on them due to no improvement, etc.

Our head coach is mostly to blame for this mess! He allowed Wheeler to rule the roost and allowed Scheifele do as he pleased. Never any repercussions for those two.

 

[drumzan]

2012 Olli Jokinen - 2 years - $9,000,000 pretty major at the time

2016 Shawn Matthias - 2 years - $4,250,000

2021 Paul Statsny - 1 year - $3,750,000 a good signing

- yeah, we don't do major.

You forgot Steve Mason. $4.1M x 2 years

 

[GumbyCan2]

I think the whole “wanting out” thing gets exaggerated. It’s like anytime a player expresses any kind of frustration or disappointment it’s portrayed as “wanting out”. The Ville one cracks me up the most. I want the kid to get his shot but to think a 21 year old defenseman, who has done absolutely zilch, is in a position to demand a trade, is pretty far removed from reality.

Stands to reason that the disappointment in the results of this season has alot of players speaking with a sour tone right now. Easily gets misread as "wanting out". Then translates into "trade me please", may be exaggerated from players'actual feelings, thoughts. Thats the media gurus and yappy-gabbers jobs, right. Take a spin on "words" to add intrigue, interest, speculation, etc. "Stir the pot see what gets poured out".
However, only time will tell when "truth in actions" happens, jow muchnof speculation and mixed words actually mean, meant.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I think it's the other way - that Heinola has more latitude to request (not demand) a trade.

With Heinola, the team is more likely to go "yeah, we don't have many plans for ya, we'll see what we can do".

With a, I dunno, Ehlers, the team is more likely to say "Sorry Nik, you're an important part of our team. You're under contract and we're keeping you".

How about adding to the bolded - What can we do to make you happy here?

 

[GumbyCan2]

The D is good enough to make noise in the playoffs. The team has no defensive structure.

New coaching Allowed to incorporate change in play and attitude ( or ride the pine, "son") is whats needed more than more, new defensive players, per se. With Samberg showing ready, now! Heinola deserving more of a steady trial, chance. Chisholm and Kovacevic are showing very solid, steady pro hockey acumen and ability. We don't need Nate Schmidt's and Brendan Dillon's contracts tying up cap space ( not making much difference to a winning saeson) to go after a much needed UFA here and there, if a new structure, system of incorporating team defense and attitude in a new voice running the bench and lines and the ice is in place. Needed for 3 to 4 years now.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

My impression is that bubble players (or rather their agents) frequently are more vocal. The "My client just wants a chance to prove himself. If you don't think there's room on the big club can I help you find a trade partner so he can get his shot"?

Which is not demanding a trade, and not going public.

And doesn't happen in a player's D+3 season with a player who has only just turned 21. Especially since a key development year was partially derailed by Covid.

All of the angst over Heinola is strictly fan stuff. We all wanted him to kick the door down and be playing like Cale Makar by now.

He hasn't been blocked yet. That might be the case next year if Dillon is still here, or if he is still playing behind Stanley. But not yet.

 

[GumbyCan2]

At least you're consistent in creating trade scenario's with Montreal that are absolutely terrible for the Jets.

A les Canadiens secret double agent, posing as a Jets fan, eh!

 

[GumbyCan2]

Only losers make excuses about location/whatever.

So by this extortion, the Jets were losers this year, right?

 

[Joe Hallenback]

These are sad excuses for management with a captial S and loser thinking. By this analysis we also need to include the horrific contracts that Chevy tried to sign but failed (Alzner, Nestorov, Michael Stone). Most UFAs are not worth it. This is an RFA league, signing a UFA is not the difference between being a contender and the state they are in today.

There are many Spezza type undervalued guys in the league traded or signing for league minimum or close to league minimum contracts every year without any location preference who are just happy to play in the league. The Jets have completely and utterly failed to acquire any one of those guys, what is the Jets excuse for not claiming Kylington? What is the Jets excuse to not acquire Devon Toews and then paying that exact same price for a much worse & older player in Dillon? What is the Jets excuse to not acquire Verhege who signed for league minimum?

What is the Jets excuse for wasting 1st round picks for 1 year solutions instead of using that same asset to help them acquire a player who is signed for a couple more years like Tampa/Toronto have done? If the Jets are so hard in to acquire why are they then wasting 1st round picks on your Kevin Hayes of the world throwing away 3rd round and later picks like candy?

I blame the current state of the Jets squarely on the Jets, anything else is making excuses for the management. You cannot be spending to the cap and then whining and making excuses about "location".


oof that was a big miss on my part. And the crazy part is that management was "choosing" between which one of Buff or Ladd to sign that season.

Number 1. We never signed Alzer,Nesterov or Stone so that is moot.

Number 2. There isn't many Spezza's in the league and none of them want to give us a break to sign here. That is a fact. Who cares about Kylington? The guy passed through waivers and EVERY team passed on him because he was shit. Carter Verhaeghe wins the Lotto and rides shotgun with Barkov and that is supposed to be what a genius signing? He went from nothing to playing with Barkov to a 4+ year deal. If he regresses at all that is a bad deal

Number 3. We have no idea if we were in on Toews or not. We have no idea if they asked him who would you like to go to. We also have NO IDEA if he plays the same,better or worse once he gets here because he was never on this team.

Number 4. We were going for it when we traded picks. Why? Because we had a chance at winning. Not going to blame them for trying. But we sure can blame them years later though right. We had a cap level team or soon to be cap level team. It was the right time to try win

Number 5. They offered Ladd a contract and he buggered off. There was no choice in the matter between the 2.. They were always signing both. One guy left. One guy retired earlier then expected.


None of the above matters because again we should know by now we ARE NOT BUYING OUR WAY OUT OF A JAM LIKE MOST OF THIS LEAGUE DOES.

I am tired of so called fans who seem more self loathing sociopaths who's arguments are based on fantasy with out a touch of reality in the situation.

Did they hold to Paul Maurice too long? Yes. Bitch about it. Should they have brought in a Coach with experience to try and shake up that shitty locker room? Yes. Bitch about it.

But god almighty if I have to go through a summer of hindsight fantasy player poaching because they had a good year playing with Barkov and why in the world wouldn't have we got him type of stupidity. I am just going to leave

 

[Stumbledore]

I am tired of so called fans who seem more self loathing sociopaths who's arguments are based on fantasy with out a touch of reality in the situation.

But god almighty if I have to go through a summer of hindsight fantasy player poaching because they had a good year playing with Barkov and why in the world wouldn't have we got him type of stupidity. I am just going to leave

Best post of the past few weeks.

Maybe explains why some of the regulars here have buggered off for good.

 

[gojetsgo]

I think the hardest thing for this market to acquire is good cheap depth players, how many good depth guys that are making low aav's are going to choose winnipeg over the florida's/nyc/cali/ etc. so unless you want to over pay for these good cheap depth players(which defeats the purpose of going after them in the first place) we are stuck getting the left over depth players

 

[White Out 902]

So by this extortion, the Jets were losers this year, right?

thats not what extortion means.

 

[JetsFan815]

Number 1. We never signed Alzer,Nesterov or Stone so that is moot.

Your entire post was giving this management a pass because of "something something location something something, no one wants to come here". If you are going make an excuse for them by citing how the Jets are not a free agent destination then you also need to consider the potential terrible contracts they were about to offer that they were bailed out from by the Jets not being a key destination. The Jets tried to acquire Emelin (not Nesterov that was my bad) who blocked it, they tried to acquire Alzner and they tried to get Stone... it was widely reported at that time. Those are literally facts, go back and read this board from that time period, there is no debate.

Number 2. There isn't many Spezza's in the league and none of them want to give us a break to sign here. That is a fact. Who cares about Kylington? The guy passed through waivers and EVERY team passed on him because he was shit. Carter Verhaeghe wins the Lotto and rides shotgun with Barkov and that is supposed to be what a genius signing? He went from nothing to playing with Barkov to a 4+ year deal. If he regresses at all that is a bad deal

I don't care about Verhege in particular who continues to produce away from Barkov. My point with citing him is that you were trying to use Spezza as excuse in favor of this group that they are somehow climbing a far steeper mountain because a 4th liner like Spezza (who was a healthy scratch in Game 1 of the playoffs) wouldn't sign in Winnipeg.

My point is that there are players BETTER than Spezza who are available almost every year. Verghege, Kylington, Toews being a few of the examples. There are other guys too like the Selke Trophy candidate Nichuskin who literally signed for league minimum a couple of years ago. The Jets had more than their share of chances to pick up one of these guys thus nullifying your entire Spezza argument.

I care about Kylington because the guy looks like a bonafide top-4 d-man that we coulda had for free, we instead spent two 2nds, a 3rd and about $9million+ in capspace for that same role and still didn't end up with anyone as good as Kylington.

Number 3. We have no idea if we were in on Toews or not. We have no idea if they asked him who would you like to go to. We also have NO IDEA if he plays the same,better or worse once he gets here because he was never on this team.

Number 4. We were going for it when we traded picks. Why? Because we had a chance at winning. Not going to blame them for trying. But we sure can blame them years later though right. We had a cap level team or soon to be cap level team. It was the right time to try win

Number 5. They offered Ladd a contract and he buggered off. There was no choice in the matter between the 2.. They were always signing both. One guy left. One guy retired earlier then expected.


None of the above matters because again we should know by now we ARE NOT BUYING OUR WAY OUT OF A JAM LIKE MOST OF THIS LEAGUE DOES.

I am tired of so called fans who seem more self loathing sociopaths who's arguments are based on fantasy with out a touch of reality in the situation.

Did they hold to Paul Maurice too long? Yes. Bitch about it. Should they have brought in a Coach with experience to try and shake up that shitty locker room? Yes. Bitch about it.

But god almighty if I have to go through a summer of hindsight fantasy player poaching because they had a good year playing with Barkov and why in the world wouldn't have we got him type of stupidity. I am just going to leave

You think Lou Lamerello of all people would care about the preferences of a 23 year old with only 2 years of NHL experience on an ELC who doesn't have any kind of NTC/NMC? That's fantasy! The Jets would have had Toews if they wanted to get Toews and willing to match Lou's price. There is no reason to think he would have been any worse in WPG than he was in NYI and COL... it's not like there is anything magical in the water in Jets locker room.

This is typical... nothing is ever Jets fault... "they are just a victim of circumstances, location etc", "the management has it so hard because no one wants to play here". There is no personal responsibility on the Jets. If they don't acquire Toews, it's because Lou must wierdly have given a player on his ELC a defacto NTC. When they don't get Verhege then the grapes are sour and he wouldn't have worked here anyways. When they don't claim Kylington then it's okay because the rest of the league passed on him too.

Mind you I am not blasting them for not signing these guys but if you are gonna come and cite Jason Spezza as a reason why the Jets are sucking then people are going to bring up counterexamples of better players that they could have had who had no location restrictions.

Time to place some responsibility on the Jets management instead of always finding a reason to let them off the hook "because location" and "because UFA".

 

[White Out 902]

Best post of the past few weeks.

Maybe explains why some of the regulars here have buggered off for good.

I imagine a lot of regulars post a lot less (myself included) because this team is a directionless mess. It's mentally exhausting coming on to this site and watching this team do nothing and see on the front page "in chevy we trust!" and get hounded by a small group of radicals about how amazing tnse is and our management.

 

[JetsFan815]

I think the hardest thing for this market to acquire is good cheap depth players, how many good depth guys that are making low aav's are going to choose winnipeg over the florida's/nyc/cali/ etc. so unless you want to over pay for these good cheap depth players(which defeats the purpose of going after them in the first place) we are stuck getting the left over depth players

Jets chose Sanford over Svechnikov and for the last few years willingly make the choice of going with a veteran 4th line with minimal upside as opposed to trying internal options or taking flyers on external promising guys who have fallen out of favor. Svechnikov was the first exception to that pattern and they basically treated him like shit.

Not gonna find many depth players where 2 of the 3 spots on your 3rd line are spoken for every season and you make the conscious choice of a vet heavy 4th line playing 6 minutes a night on the 4th line.

Toronto on the other hand takes a flyer on a bunch of bottom-6/middle-6 players every season, a lot of them don't work out but some do and you end up with them getting solid contributors in those roles for cheap (Bunting/Kase/Johnsson/Engvall/Blackwell etc)

 

[Stumbledore]

I imagine a lot of regulars post a lot less (myself included) because this team is a directionless mess. It's mentally exhausting coming on to this site and watching this team do nothing and see on the front page "in chevy we trust!" and get hounded by a small group of radicals about how amazing tnse is and our management.

Maybe it's because of the team, maybe it's because of us. I noticed that Pandamona had complained about reading "shut up sawyer" like a million times and then she disappeared from here.

 

[gojetsgo]

Jets chose Sanford over Svechnikov and for the last few years willingly make the choice of going with a veteran 4th line with minimal upside as opposed to trying internal options or taking flyers on external promising guys who have fallen out of favor. Svechnikov was the first exception to that pattern and they basically treated him like shit.

Not gonna find many depth players where 2 of the 3 spots on your 3rd line are spoken for every season and you make the conscious choice of a vet heavy 4th line playing 6 minutes a night on the 4th line.

Toronto on the other hand takes a flyer on a bunch of bottom-6/middle-6 players every season, a lot of them don't work out but some do and you end up with them getting solid contributors in those roles for cheap (Bunting/Kase/Johnsson/Engvall/Blackwell etc)

this speaks to coaching more then anything..
me - winnipeg has a hard time attracting depth players due to market
you - toronto was able to do it!

yes a more desirable market was able to get cheap depth players...