Speculation: Friedman: "At the deadline I heard that several Jets players asked to be traded"

[Mortimer Snerd]

This even makes me question Chevys extension even more.

We don't really know what this is. How much is it normal but getting more than normal scrutiny? How much is it venting after the crap season? Etc, etc.

We know that it is something. We know that there have been problems since at least Jan 1, 2019 (approximately). We know that a coaching problem was allowed to go on until the coach quit. We know that several players have under-performed and that the team as a whole followed.

Importantly - we do know that it has all come undone on Chevy's watch.

 

[Jack7222]

Guys like Perreault are where the Jets have to find their non-draft players. Legit good, but undervalued by the league. Those players are getting harder to find with teams slowly catching on to analytics.

Agree completely, except that I'm not sure we've caught on yet either. Perreault was woefully underused here.

You'd think leveraging market inefficiencies would be like... a huge priority for a small market team. But I'm not sure our org agrees on what has value..

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Please don't downplay how hellishly f***ing cold it is, not after this freak of a winter.

Since 2018 it's been tough. I'm on the side of large changes. If that means no scheifele so be it. I have his jersey from 2013 I love the guy. This team is not a contender anymore and let's not beat around the bush about it. Time to shake it up.

I don't downplay Wpg winters - but it needs to be balanced. It gets massively overplayed here. Massively.

I could only conclude that the ~ 1 million people living in Wpg are all in some way substandard. We would all leave if only we could get ourselves hired in Toronto. But we are all just not good enough to earn a living anywhere else, so we are stuck here in frozen hell.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

In these player friction events Chevy usually does the right thing EVENTUALLY after he has exhausted other options. His #1 crime along with and perhaps driven by Chipman was keeping Maurice too long. The byproduct of their inaction was this lost season, the Scheifele drama, the room chemistry steadily deteriorating until it manifested itself publicly. Inaction is in fact an action and thats the problem you are not avoiding the problem you are endorsing the problem and giving it your blessing by not changing it. There is a fine line between patience and incompetence. The key is self awareness and I am not sold our owner Is dialed in on this organizational blind spot but who knows.

There is always going to be some drama around NHL teams but this has gone past that. Thankfully it came to a head so hopefully they get things cleaned up this off season.

He definitely kept Kane too long. Even then it took a locker room blow up for him to finally move. If he had been traded 2 years earlier we get more quality, less quantity in return.

Trouba was also kept too long to maximize his market value but the situation was different. We were getting good performance from Trouba at a time we were beginning to contend. Had we traded him 2 years earlier the return might have also helped us contend, or not.

But I agree he does the right thing eventually. He is just too slow to recognize that the other options are not going to work. It is a pattern and it is probably his greatest weakness. The Maurice situation has been the most harmful example.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I live in Winnipeg...my entire life has been here. I don't really have a good option for living anywhere else. I deal with the cold, but I absolutely hate it...even in spite of all the "modern conveniences." Having a nice warm place to live doesn't change the fact that 7 months of every year I have to bundle up in heavy layers every time I leave that warm place and I have to scrape ice off my windows and let the car warm up and trudge through snow in heavy boots. I have to get tires changed a couple times a year and worry about plugging the thing in over night (which starts at 5pm) and if I have to park the car somewhere for a day and can't plug in I have to worry about it starting when I go back out. If I were a young athlete who had his choice of places to go...you can bet your ass the weather here would be a factor. It's not like Winnipeg has much of anything else to offer in terms of entertainment and amenities to counter-balance the crappy winters...

Get a garage. I haven't plugged my car in for years. Or scraped the windshield either.

But yeah, I hate the winter too. But absolutely everyplace has its pros and cons. We never get earthquakes or hurricanes. We get occasional tornadoes, but they are quite rare here. The flooding is a problem, but most places have that issue. There are wildfires North, East and West of Wpg, but all we get is the smoke.

I actually enjoy the cycle of the seasons but I need another 3-4 months a year of golf season. Shorten winter by that much and I am good.

 

[cbcwpg]

I don't downplay Wpg winters - but it needs to be balanced. It gets massively overplayed here. Massively.

I could only conclude that the ~ 1 million people living in Wpg are all in some way substandard. We would all leave if only we could get ourselves hired in Toronto. But we are all just not good enough to earn a living anywhere else, so we are stuck here in frozen hell.

I wonder if most of the people complaining about our winters have never spent winters in other cities?

Totally OT here...

Sure it's cold here, but I would rather die than spend a winter in Vancouver ( I hate the f***ing rain ). It's not like people are freaking sun bathing in Boston , Detroit, NY, Philadelphia, Toronto during the winter months. Sure these places are warmer, but if it snows it's a wet snow and messy and rainy . ( did I mention I don't like the rain ) . My son's job has him outside year round and he says he would rather be in Winnipeg because it might be cold, but it's dry. Nothing worse then working outside when it's -3C to 5C and raining.

 

[Joe Hallenback]

I wonder if most of the people complaining about our winters have never spent winters in other cities?

Totally OT here...

Sure it's cold here, but I would rather die than spend a winter in Vancouver ( I hate the f***ing rain ). It's not like people are freaking sun bathing in Boston , Detroit, NY, Philadelphia, Toronto during the winter months. Sure these places are warmer, but if it snows it's a wet snow and messy and rainy . ( did I mention I don't like the rain ) . My son's job has him outside year round and he says he would rather be in Winnipeg because it might be cold, but it's dry. Nothing worse then working outside when it's -3C to 5C and raining.

Its more than that. The city's you listed have a lot more to offer to someone young with money then Winnipeg does

 

[jetsv2]

The reality of the situation is that Winnipeg constantly ranks as the least desirable NHL market for NHL players, so what the average joe thinks about living here doesn't matter. You can downplay the concerns about the winters or whatever else but in the end, the Jets will always have trouble attracting talent and will always be on most players no trade lists.

 

[Joe Hallenback]

The fact that we can remain competitive without any advantage that a lot of teams have is actually pretty remarkable. It will remain to be seen if we can weather this patch and still be competitive.

We could easily fall into a Ottawa/Buffalo/Yotes funk

 

[DRW204]

Agree completely, except that I'm not sure we've caught on yet either. Perreault was woefully underused here.

You'd think leveraging market inefficiencies would be like... a huge priority for a small market team. But I'm not sure our org agrees on what has value..

Yup. There's tons of low valued players, or players that don't have ntc/Nmc that get moved. You are only eligible for ntc/Nmc in your ufa years anyway.
This org did get Svech, however, they dog housed him for what 3/4s of the year? Even when he played solidly in a top 6 role

 

[DRW204]

Agree completely, except that I'm not sure we've caught on yet either. Perreault was woefully underused here.

You'd think leveraging market inefficiencies would be like... a huge priority for a small market team. But I'm not sure our org agrees on what has value..

Our lw for the last few seasons of perreault were Connor and Ehlers. Who do you expect him to play over?

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I wonder if most of the people complaining about our winters have never spent winters in other cities?

Totally OT here...

Sure it's cold here, but I would rather die than spend a winter in Vancouver ( I hate the f***ing rain ). It's not like people are freaking sun bathing in Boston , Detroit, NY, Philadelphia, Toronto during the winter months. Sure these places are warmer, but if it snows it's a wet snow and messy and rainy . ( did I mention I don't like the rain ) . My son's job has him outside year round and he says he would rather be in Winnipeg because it might be cold, but it's dry. Nothing worse then working outside when it's -3C to 5C and raining.

That damp cold can go right through you and it seems that putting on more clothes doesn't help much. The dry cold is easier to take. Wind is another story though.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

If it was just a case of having a disappointing season and everyone saying they want to get back at it and make it better next season, that would be one thing. But when you have such a public display of lets say finger pointing, questioning where the team is going, and just how upset the players are, and you add to that the GM getting a 3 year extension, and then trying to downplay all the issues....

There is concern.

to add a little more perspective to the perspective.

 

[Eyeseeing]

We don't really know what this is. How much is it normal but getting more than normal scrutiny? How much is it venting after the crap season? Etc, etc.

We know that it is something. We know that there have been problems since at least Jan 1, 2019 (approximately). We know that a coaching problem was allowed to go on until the coach quit. We know that several players have under-performed and that the team as a whole followed.

Importantly - we do know that it has all come undone on Chevy's watch.

Undone on Chevy's watch with Chipman's blessing.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

While I agree a “tire fire” is a bit over the top, your “perspective” is a bit on the sunny side. Four years in a row of post season? You’re not including that silly play in with the Flames as playoffs, are you? Another post season appearance made possible by being in the Canadian division. Beat a bad Oilers team and were then inexplicably swept by a worse Habs team. Followed up a trip to the WCF with a first exit the following season.
Coach quit this season (shouldn’t have been around to do so), Star player indifferent and unhappy, rumours of other players also unhappy with the team, interim coach terrible, dismissed and invited to reapply. Probably most importantly, a very discontented fan base and I’m not just talking about this place. What should concern the Jets is the disinterest and disgust the average fan has with the team right now. I’ve never talked to so many people who are so unhappy with the team, and these are not hockey nuts who over analyze and speculate on absolutely everything. These are the Jets bread and butter fans, the ones they can’t afford to alienate. But they are getting dangerously close to doing so. This team hasn’t excited it’s fan base for a number of years now, there is some real apathy setting in. It’s not “one bad year”, they’ve been going the wrong direction for 3-4 years and at the moment have a pretty sizeable job to get it back on track. Not saying they can’t, but a lot of pieces have to fall into place for it to get that way.
Tire fire? No, but the tires are piling up. Let’s hope the fuel and matches don’t show up.

Good post. The bolded sums it up pretty well.

 

[JetsFan815]

Only losers make excuses about location/whatever.

 

[JetsFan815]

I wonder if most of the people complaining about our winters have never spent winters in other cities?

Totally OT here...

Sure it's cold here, but I would rather die than spend a winter in Vancouver ( I hate the f***ing rain ). It's not like people are freaking sun bathing in Boston , Detroit, NY, Philadelphia, Toronto during the winter months. Sure these places are warmer, but if it snows it's a wet snow and messy and rainy . ( did I mention I don't like the rain ) . My son's job has him outside year round and he says he would rather be in Winnipeg because it might be cold, but it's dry. Nothing worse then working outside when it's -3C to 5C and raining.

I lived in Seattle for like ~6 years... winters there are not much better even if there isn't the extreme cold (with the exception of this year). Can't do much outside with 4-8 degrees weather with a constant steady drizzle.

 

[jetsv2]

Only losers make excuses about location/whatever.

That's really dumb thinking. It's a fact that Winnipeg is the most common team on no trade lists and has been since they came back into the league. It goes way beyond weather. The city doesn't have nearly as much to offer to young millionaires as the other 31 NHL cities, the weather is the worst of any NHL city and the tax situation in Manitoba is one of the worst in the league.

The reality is that the Jets are at a disadvantage and always will be.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I count the play in with the Flames as making the playoffs as we were on an absolute tear when COVID initially shut down the season. We had gone through the difficult part of our schedule and all the teams we were clustered with were just about to hit busy schedules to end out the year and we had games against all the teams we were in competition with. If the season hadn't been stopped we would have made the playoffs by game 82. Then 55 gets hurt on that dangerous hit early in the first game and we couldn't overcome that but I do consider that making the playoffs. We played a series and lost. So a first round exit sure, but still playing extra games.

For the Canadian division, the Flames didn't make so I think you're downplaying how good the Canadian division was. Toronto, Edmonton and Calgary are all hosting 1st round playoff games this year. If Vancouver didn't have such a bad start they could have been a playoff team too this year. Montreal fell off the face of the earth.

There is a pretty clear excuse for getting swept by the Habs. Prior to that series there had only been 5 times where a team had to wait 9 days between playoff games in the history of the league. The team that had the 9 day break lost 4 of the 5 series' and 3 of the 4 losses were sweeps. Now it's happened 6 times with the team waiting losing 5 of the 6 and 4 of the 5 losses were sweeps. It's actually the most likely outcome having that much time between playoff series. So say what you want, but that's the history.

Then we also lost to the Blues in the first round but had 3rd period leads in 2 games that we lost so if we played 20 better minutes of hockey maybe that would have been our Stanley cup instead of theirs.

I think context matters and people have a revisionist point of view of some of the things that had occured.

Being on a hot streak at the time means nothing, absolute zero. That 'tear' is what got us as close as we were. There is no reason to believe it would have continued. ALL streaks end. If we were so good why did we do so poorly in that play-in? Yeah, yeah, Scheifele injured, blah, blah. If losing 1 player crippled us so badly, we didn't have the depth to make the PO.

The fact is that we were not in a PO position and needed a rule change to get us in. We then failed to take advantage of the extra opportunity.

I think that calling that play-in the same as ACTUALLY making the PO is the revisionism. Really. It was a revised PO format.

Excuses. excuses. I think you are still polishing a turd.
But last year and the year before are not why people are calling the organization a "tire fire" now. It is because of the one bad season - when it shouldn't have been a bad season. Followed by all the players public comments and rumoured trade requests, etc.

We weren't a tire fire after the loss to Montreal. We are (possibly) a tire fire now.

 

[gojetsgo]

Being on a hot streak at the time means nothing, absolute zero. That 'tear' is what got us as close as we were. There is no reason to believe it would have continued. ALL streaks end. If we were so good why did we do so poorly in that play-in? Yeah, yeah, Scheifele injured, blah, blah. If losing 1 player crippled us so badly, we didn't have the depth to make the PO.

The fact is that we were not in a PO position and needed a rule change to get us in. We then failed to take advantage of the extra opportunity.

I think that calling that play-in the same as ACTUALLY making the PO is the revisionism. Really. It was a revised PO format.

Excuses. excuses. I think you are still polishing a turd.
But last year and the year before are not why people are calling the organization a "tire fire" now. It is because of the one bad season - when it shouldn't have been a bad season. Followed by all the players public comments and rumoured trade requests, etc.

We weren't a tire fire after the loss to Montreal. We are (possibly) a tire fire now.

we lost laine as well in game 1 of the play in we also stole 1 game with out them, had we had both scheif and laine we would have beat the flames that year

 

[JetsFan815]

That's really dumb thinking. It's a fact that Winnipeg is the most common team on no trade lists and has been since they came back into the league. It goes way beyond weather. The city doesn't have nearly as much to offer to young millionaires as the other 31 NHL cities, the weather is the worst of any NHL city and the tax situation in Manitoba is one of the worst in the league.

The reality is that the Jets are at a disadvantage and always will be.

NHL is an RFA league not a UFA league. Virtually all contenders are/were built on the players they drafted. By the time a high-priced player hits UFA they are not worth the contract they get. I would argue the location has actually helped Chevy by preventing him from signing crippling contracts- we know that Chevy in the past tried to sign guys like Alzner/Nesterov. Maybe it prevents you from adding a "nice to have" at the deadline once every few years when a Manson blocks a trade but it certainly isn't the difference between icing a team that can contend vs what the Jets have been for most of their lifespan. In hindsight, I wish Dillon had Winnipeg on his NTC.

 

[Jack7222]

Our lw for the last few seasons of perreault were Connor and Ehlers. Who do you expect him to play over?

Yeah, that's true. I just think I might approach the question differently... Ehlers and Connor are better players for sure, but fact is Connor has been a part of plenty of bad lines, and Perreault's lines were almost always in the positive. I don't think he's more valuable than them but should have been used more to facilitate other lines that weren't working. Our org seemed too concerned with lining everyone up in order according to hierarchy vs experimenting with different combinations.

For example I remember one of our best lines being Perreault Little and Ehlers, but as soon as we were healthy it was broken up in favour of "better" players but worse line combos.

 

[Stumbledore]

the bruins flatter forbert....he does not flatter the bruins

He flatters them enough that they keep him in the starting line-up.

You can hate him if you want, I don't care. I was just pointing out that he wasn't good enough for a team that didn't make the playoffs without him, yet good enough to be kept around by a team that did make the playoffs.

 

[White Out 902]

Only losers make excuses about location/whatever.

It bears repeating. If you are going to throw up your hands and blame the location for management failings, send the team back to the states.

This is on Chevy and the arrogance of our organization

 

[Stumbledore]

I wonder if most of the people complaining about our winters have never spent winters in other cities?

Totally OT here...

Sure it's cold here, but I would rather die than spend a winter in Vancouver ( I hate the f***ing rain ). It's not like people are freaking sun bathing in Boston , Detroit, NY, Philadelphia, Toronto during the winter months. Sure these places are warmer, but if it snows it's a wet snow and messy and rainy . ( did I mention I don't like the rain ) . My son's job has him outside year round and he says he would rather be in Winnipeg because it might be cold, but it's dry. Nothing worse then working outside when it's -3C to 5C and raining.

I've lived in Seattle and Phoenix and I'd take Winnipeg's weather any day of the year over those places.

Week after week of grey, rainy, foggy days of maybe 2-3C is far worse than a sunny day of -30C. Plus, no matter how freaking cold it gets here, you can still buy the right clothes to let you go outdoors and stay outside for as long as you want. When it's summer in Phoenix and in the mid 40Cs for days at a time, there is nothing you can wear that will make it bearable to be outdoors. Try going for a walk in Scottsdale that's longer than 90 seconds and you'll soon prefer walking in Winnipeg in any season.