Friedman: Friedman and Marek - 'If the Canucks decide to move Schenn they will receive a lot'

[613Leafer]

A great 5/6 who can fill in top 4 physical rhd with almost a league min contract with cup experience? Every contender in the league should be looking to add this guy. Not saying he will get a 1st but he has value to teams easily.

Big bluelines have excelled in the playoffs, especially recently. Tampa's blueline is huge, and the last three years is the most successful three year playoff stretch of any team in the cap era. Colorado's blueliners were all 6'1+ except for Makar. Montreal's surprise run was largely based on this too, with guys like Chiarot/Edmundson excelling (and a blueline that in general was ~6'2+).

It's a copycat league, and in addition to there always being only a handful of decent dmen available at the deadline, there are even fewer ~6'2+ physical dmen available. Doesn't mean Schenn will actually excel for a team this year in these playoffs, but that type of player has certainly excelled quite a bit in recent years (largely due to the way the league refs the playoffs vs regular season and how physicality/grittiness becomes that much more important).

Teams will pay a premium for that.

 

[Nucklehead Supreme]

I'd take Schenn on Edmonton's terribly inexperienced D-core any day of the week.

But if he's so "treasured and marveled" and "every contender would want him", then why was he essentially the 7th D for Tampa Bay, playing 8 and 11 games during their playoff runs? Was he injured?

Even then, why did he only play 9 and 10 mins a night when he was healthy! That's an exceptionally low time-on-ice for a guy you trust.

Even in Vancouver he's only playing 17mins a night. So I dunno... is this still a guy you can rely on in transition, or is he more likely to get PK action and spot own-zone duty when trying to get the puck and get it out.

Soooo your running on the assumption that whoever trades for him expects a top pairing dman?

 

[TBF1972]

Schenn will retire as a Canuck and I have no problem with that. Unless it's a first round draft pick, he's too valuable to this core.

you sound like aqualini

 

[AfroThunder396]

To save you time later, it would take less energy for you to just type that you haven’t watch Schenn play in the past 2 seasons and you really have no idea what you’re talking about.

He's not the worst player in the world, no one is saying that. He's a solid bottom pairing option, and most teams have plenty of guys like that. He's serviceable but by no means special.

The difference is that most teams don't have mouthpieces at TSN campaigning for them to get traded for a king's ransom, nor an army of homers who think a 33 year old filler player is worth a top pick because he blocked a shot once.

We saw this before with Ben Chiarot in MTL - a mediocre player gets relentlessly pushed as the hottest commodity of the year, creating artificial competition to drive up the price of a guy who really isn't that great.

 

[notsocommonsense]

He's not the worst player in the world, no one is saying that. He's a solid bottom pairing option, and most teams have plenty of guys like that. He's serviceable but by no means special.

The difference is that most teams don't have mouthpieces at TSN campaigning for them to get traded for a king's ransom, nor an army of homers who think a 33 year old filler player is worth a top pick because he blocked a shot once.

We saw this before with Ben Chiarot in MTL - a mediocre player gets relentlessly pushed as the hottest commodity of the year, creating artificial competition to drive up the price of a guy who really isn't that great.

This is a fair reply. Just wanted to point out there’s some middle ground between “marvelling and treasured” and “mediocre scrub”

Lots of teams will be in on Schenn as they are every year heading into the playoffs for depth D, especially cheap vets with experience who know their roles and play them well. Particularly a physical D man.

That’s not to say he’s going to get a 1st and blue chip prospect or anything. But someone will pay up for him to round out their blueline.

 

[Nucklehead Supreme]

He's not the worst player in the world, no one is saying that. He's a solid bottom pairing option, and most teams have plenty of guys like that. He's serviceable but by no means special.

The difference is that most teams don't have mouthpieces at TSN campaigning for them to get traded for a king's ransom, nor an army of homers who think a 33 year old filler player is worth a top pick because he blocked a shot once.

We saw this before with Ben Chiarot in MTL - a mediocre player gets relentlessly pushed as the hottest commodity of the year, creating artificial competition to drive up the price of a guy who really isn't that great.

Most teams have plenty of Schenns? Really? So in your eyes big defensive RHD are a dime a dozen in the NHL?

Speculating about a team that is awful, trading a player, that even as a bottom pairing guy (because of his position specifically) is a commodity on a cheap expiring contract, is campaigning for him? Sounds like hockey analysts being hockey analysts.

What kings ransom did they speak of?

Yes the only reason Chiarot got what he did is because his price was driven up by the media, hahahahahahahahahaha OMG imagine actually believing that, hahahaha

 

[Canucks LB]

damn right, he has been unbelievable for us

 

[UrbanImpact]

He's not the worst player in the world, no one is saying that. He's a solid bottom pairing option, and most teams have plenty of guys like that. He's serviceable but by no means special.

The difference is that most teams don't have mouthpieces at TSN campaigning for them to get traded for a king's ransom, nor an army of homers who think a 33 year old filler player is worth a top pick because he blocked a shot once.

We saw this before with Ben Chiarot in MTL - a mediocre player gets relentlessly pushed as the hottest commodity of the year, creating artificial competition to drive up the price of a guy who really isn't that great.

Artificial competition driven by media has gotta be the biggest load of crap thinking on HF.

Can we give these GMs are bit more credit.

Do you think they sit around and watch Insider Trading on TSN or listen to the MArek podcoast?

Do you think GMs are incapable of calling others GMs to see if theres real interest and offers on a player?

So when Dubas hears there's major major interest on Schenn via TSN, do you think thats it? his due dilligence is done.... no sense in calling other GMs to see if theyve offered anything on Schenn? just go with what Friendman says?

 

[Three On Zero]

1st + blue chip prospect should suffice

 

[krutovsdonut]

He's not the worst player in the world, no one is saying that. He's a solid bottom pairing option, and most teams have plenty of guys like that. He's serviceable but by no means special.

The difference is that most teams don't have mouthpieces at TSN campaigning for them to get traded for a king's ransom, nor an army of homers who think a 33 year old filler player is worth a top pick because he blocked a shot once.

We saw this before with Ben Chiarot in MTL - a mediocre player gets relentlessly pushed as the hottest commodity of the year, creating artificial competition to drive up the price of a guy who really isn't that great.

how do you figure the media drove up the price of chiarot?

i agree media hype puts players on team management radar, but if they are doing their job it would be mainly just advertising to give them a timely heads up. the market value is going to depend on a team braintrustsevaluation and whether there are multiple bidders, which is also dependent on team braintrusts. nobody trades for a player because elliott friedman hypes the guy, let alone values a player based on friedman's hype.

the only way i can see that media coverage would affect market value is if it made teams believe there is a bidding war when there is not, and i would assume any team doing its homework would do the most homework of all to see if there really is a bidding war rather than believe media tweets.

 

[Jay26]

I'm laughing my ass off over the actual butthurt at the media just being the media. Wow. So they're hyping up the trade market for a decent, not amazing, player on a Canadian team? Is that really something to get so mad about?? I'm floored.

 

[CapsFrontOffice]

Tell me you don't understand depth assets without saying it.

Then remember Chiarot.

I did not mean to be so back handed with my reply.....that's just the way it came out.

I can see someone paying a tiny bit more to cover an injury but as far as depth I feel like that is more or so dependent on if there is a deal that works without having to give up to much. Like for maybe a early 2nd or so on. We are kind of stuck in the same spot with Eller as a Caps fan. I'm not expecting much in return for him but he will be a benefit depth wise on a contender.

A great 5/6 who can fill in top 4 physical rhd with almost a league min contract with cup experience? Every contender in the league should be looking to add this guy. Not saying he will get a 1st but he has value to teams easily.

Yeah I kind of rationalized this out a little better further in the thread....I think he will get a 2nd or up. If there is competition maybe a late first.

 

[Ezpz]

Chiarot was playing on the first pairing without looking out of place and at worst had been a top 4 dman his entire stay in Montreal.

Schenn is a bottom pairing guy with years and years of proof.

 

[Dr Amazing]

lol right ok then.

 

[Jay26]

Chiarot was playing on the first pairing without looking out of place and at worst had been a top 4 dman his entire stay in Montreal.

Schenn is a bottom pairing guy with years and years of proof.

Lol this is bias if I've ever seen it.

 

[Dr Amazing]

Just imagine what JT Compher will bring to the Avalanche then.

Bo Horvat.

 

[Just A Bit Outside]

Nucks will throw in a 2nd in any deal.

Just cause.

 

[Warh1ppy]

I did not mean to be so back handed with my reply.....that's just the way it came out.

I can see someone paying a tiny bit more to cover an injury but as far as depth I feel like that is more or so dependent on if there is a deal that works without having to give up to much. Like for maybe a early 2nd or so on. We are kind of stuck in the same spot with Eller as a Caps fan. I'm not expecting much in return for him but he will be a benefit depth wise on a contender.

It's all good and I am not trying to be so antagonistic with my reply so I'll apologize if it came acorss as such

Here's the thing with a player like Schenn.

Every year the league has 3-7 of these players that fans claim will have no value or are low value players. Only to see them net handsome returns at the TDL or prior to by teams looking to load up early and build that chemistry. The amount of teams we've seen spend a 1st, or a 2nd and a prospect on players like Schenn every year is kind of insane.

Chiarot is just one of them. Every single year.

2022, Rakell for Reese, Simon and a 2nd
2022, Copp and a 6th for two 2nds a 5th and Barron
2021, Lashoff for a 1st and 3rd.
2020, Skej for a 1st
2020, Martinez for two seconds
2020, Coleman for Foote and a 1st
2020, Zucker for Galchenyuk, Addison and a 1st

We have to start understanding that while players like Girodano can go for a couple 2nd round picks, some times other players like Chiarot can go for a 1st 4th and a prospect because GMs literally can not control themselves. So if Schenn goes for a 5th fine, but if Schenn goes for a 1st+ I won't be shocked at all

Chiarot was playing on the first pairing without looking out of place and at worst had been a top 4 dman his entire stay in Montreal.

Schenn is a bottom pairing guy with years and years of proof.

That's far more of an indictment on Montreal than it is a net positive.

Schenn also has multiple cups a very minimal contract and the leading hits record under his belt.

 

[KurtDangle]

2nd or 3rd + B level prospect at most...

 

[Peter Griffin]

Schenn will retire as a Canuck and I have no problem with that. Unless it's a first round draft pick, he's too valuable to this core.

This explains why the team is where they’re at then.

 

[Martin Skoula]

Maybe true, but in Canucks case they arent in a hurry to trade Schenn or willing to give him up for spare parts.

There's lots of rumblings that if Horvat is traded then Schenn is the next captain of the Canucks .

I'd wait for the 8x8 full NMC extension for him before announcing the C.

 

[EP to Kuzmenko]

Chiarot was playing on the first pairing without looking out of place and at worst had been a top 4 dman his entire stay in Montreal.

Schenn is a bottom pairing guy with years and years of proof.

Schenn is playing top pairing with Hughes and looking great.

2nd or 3rd + B level prospect at most...

There will probably be a few teams offering a 2nd and one will offer a 6th or even a 5th to get it done.

 

[Knight53]

Can’t wait for some dumb GM to pony up a 1st + for him at the deadline.

 

[Reverend Mayhem]

Go back 3 years and say Luke Schenn has more value then Brock Boeser in 2022. Reaction would have been fun lol

This is a crazy f***ing timeline, but I believe it. Schenn has been unbelievable for us since he got here. Which is a good reflection on how he's improved his game and how utter shit our defense is.

 

[BKarchitect]

Chiarot played top four minutes and eventually #1 minutes on the Habs because he had to. And he was terrible at it. Habs fans were right about him getting a big return but it wasn’t because everybody else was wrong about Chiarot - it was because Zito had a brain meltdown at the deadline and if he hadn’t, somebody else would have. Chiarot proceeded to get moved down into a depth role with the Panthers and was a complete non-factor.

I guess if you need somebody to play 24-25 minutes a night and do it terribly - Chiarot is your guy. But if you need somebody to play 17-18 minutes with occasional stretches above that if paired with a complimentary puck mover - Schenn provides far more reliability as a consistent physical, defensively dependable stay-at-home vet.