GDT: Free Agent Frenzy Part IV - GM Alert "Staal is a Steal"! Marc that...

[LaffyTaffyNYR]

I know the Rangers have said they were high on DeAngelo, but with both Smith and Shattenkirk signed for the next 4 years, plus a few potential Botton pair RD-men ready to go, do they look to move him as part of a package for a 1/2C?

Exactly what I've been thinking. I think they traded for Deangelo thinking that Shattenkirk was going to take a bigger deal. Shattenkirk coming here might have changed that? tho I'm not sure what kind of value Deangelo really has at the moment?

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

Which is why that asking price is ABSURD.

I think something fair would be:

good young roster player + second tier prospect + a 2nd round pick
OR
good young roster player + 2 picks
OR
good prospect + a 2nd and 3rd round pick

Something along that sort of price is fair.

This reminds of the Nash saga, when there were reports that Howson asked for one of McDonagh/Stepan, Del Zotto/Kreider, a top prospect and first. It was something insane like that.

Obviously, you start high and end up in the middle. Sakic certainly won't get the type of package he's asking for, but he'll get something decent. The Nash trade ended up going pretty well for both teams.

Also, remember that it took until almost August for Howson to trade Nash. Sakic doesn't need to be rushed into anything; his job is on the line here. Of course he's going to try and get as much as he possibly can get out of trading Duchene.

 

[GregSirico]

Exactly what I've been thinking. I think they traded for Deangelo thinking that Shattenkirk was going to take a bigger deal. Shattenkirk coming here might have changed that? tho I'm not sure what kind of value Deangelo really has at the moment?

If I could trade DeAngelo for a 1C I'd do it in a heart beat. I think the kid oozes of talent, but I am extremely cautious of him. The off the ice stuff, the behavior issues, the clubhouse stuff, the thing with the ref. I don't know, maybe I'm old school but that is the kind of thing I want to avoid in my clubhouse.

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

Here it is:

The question now, as it was in late February — when Columbus GM Scott Howson got greedy and demanded a combination of players including Chris Kreider; Derek Stepan or Carl Hagelin; Ryan McDonagh or Michael Del Zotto; plus Brandon Dubinsky and a first-rounder — is what the Jackets will be willing to accept and how much Sather will be willing to yield in return for the 28-year-old winger, whose numbers on the ice have never quite matched the hype attached to him.

http://nypost.com/2012/06/17/rangers-still-targeting-nash/

 

[GregSirico]

Haha yeah this is Nash 2.0

 

[CommaSynapse]

Agreed and agreed.

I keep going back to his comments about centers and how he's in talks with many teams. He has a few plans for some guys and I'm sure he's probably waiting to see where all the UFA's land (although it's basically dry now) who's even left?

Left to actually play 3C? Not much...

Winnik (very inconsistent)
Fisher (don't see him leaving NSH. Either he stays or retires, in my opinion)
Cullen (bit too old..)
Cramarossa (Not as polished as he could be)
Vandevelde (better as a 4C in my opinion)

Long shots

Ryan White
Nestrasil

 

[mike14]

Exactly what I've been thinking. I think they traded for Deangelo thinking that Shattenkirk was going to take a bigger deal. Shattenkirk coming here might have changed that? tho I'm not sure what kind of value Deangelo really has at the moment?

It certainly wouldn't be a one-for-one swap, but looking forward I just can't see how he's going to crack the top 2 positions on the right side (unless Smith regresses to DRW levels), and he's not even guaranteed the 3rd RD position coming out of camp.
A contract would have to go back to make it work with the cap which limits our options a bit but possibilities (depending on the target) could be DeAngelo plus:
- Zucc (you'd want a very good return)
- Nash (possibly with some salary retention)
- Staal and the 2018 1st rounder

 

[GregSirico]

Left to actually play 3C? Not much...

Winnik (very inconsistent)
Fisher (don't see him leaving NSH. Either he stays or retires, in my opinion)
Cullen (bit too old..)
Cramarossa (Not as polished as he could be)
Vandevelde (better as a 4C in my opinion)

Long shots

Ryan White
Nestrasil

Or even 2C? Probably no one.

 

[LaffyTaffyNYR]

If I could trade DeAngelo for a 1C I'd do it in a heart beat. I think the kid oozes of talent, but I am extremely cautious of him. The off the ice stuff, the behavior issues, the clubhouse stuff, the thing with the ref. I don't know, maybe I'm old school but that is the kind of thing I want to avoid in my clubhouse.

I think he would only be a piece to get one.. What would Sakic say to Hayes, Deangelo and a 2nd?.. center to replace Duchene (Mack moves to 1), top young RHD on an ELC and a pretty high pick in a strong draft. :shrug:

 

[GregSirico]

I think he would only be a piece to get one.. What would Sakic say to Hayes, Deangelo and a 2nd?.. center to replace Duchene (Mack moves to 1), top young RHD on an ELC and a pretty high pick in a strong draft. :shrug:

I've proposed something like

DeAngelo + Hayes OR Miller + a first and a second round pick and I got shot down by the avs fans.

After that I gave up talking to them.

 

[LaffyTaffyNYR]

I've proposed something like

DeAngelo + Hayes OR Miller + a first and a second round pick and I got shot down by the avs fans.

After that I gave up talking to them.

fans have no idea about what actual value of a trade is.. especially on the main board.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

I've proposed something like

DeAngelo + Hayes OR Miller + a first and a second round pick and I got shot down by the avs fans.

After that I gave up talking to them.

This would be a horrible trade for the Rangers.

 

[GregSirico]

This would be a horrible trade for the Rangers.

Are you extremely high on DeAngelo?

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

Wouldn't be happy with anything more than a package like Miller, Holden, and Graves. No 2018 first round pick.

Doesn't really do anything for the Avs, though. We'd have to move Miller for yound LD and then move that LD for Duchene. Impossible, no. Improbable, yeah.

Watch Gorton steal Larkin out of Detroit or something. Never know what this guy is up to.

 

[Trxjw]

I think there's a decent chance of him putting up 70 here.

Although, I wouldn't even consider moving Buchnevich for Duchene. Projections aside, he's still a player who had 40 points last year, and a player who's contract is up in two years. In no universe should the Rangers be trading Buchnevich for a player like that.

Yeah I think Duchene could definitely rebound here. The system fits him well, and he'd have much better line mates than he's had as of late in Colorado. He's a dynamic player and he'd likely come in with something to prove. That could be a recipe for a lot of success.

That being said, I don't see a deal to be made. I think eventually Sakic will come to terms with the Jackets and he'll end up there. Murray is young, still a RFA, and can be a long term fixture there. The Rangers would have to make a move just to be able to get into conversations with the Avs. Seems like a hassle just to get into talks with a GM who seems to have an incredibly inflated value of his players.

 

[LaffyTaffyNYR]

Wouldn't be happy with anything more than a package like Miller, Holden, and Graves. No 2018 first round pick.

Doesn't really do anything for the Avs, though. We'd have to move Miller for yound LD and then move that LD for Duchene. Impossible, no. Improbable, yeah.

Watch Gorton steal Larkin out of Detroit or something. Never know what this guy is up to.

This is what I've been proposing we do...

Center depth would be Duchene/Zibanejad/Hayes/Nieves(anderssen off chance), etc. not bad

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Are you extremely high on DeAngelo?

Extremely? No, but I'm not in a hurry to break up this defense before it even has a chance to play a game together. Just because they signed Shattenkirk doesn't make ADA expendable, there are 3 slots on the right side, he should have one of them.


I also don't like Duchene as a player so theres that.

 

[NickyFotiu]

Id temporarily play JT at center before trading JT, Graves and a 1st for Duchane.

 

[GregSirico]

Extremely? No, but I'm not in a hurry to break up this defense before it even has a chance to play a game together. Just because they signed Shattenkirk doesn't make ADA expendable, there are 3 slots on the right side, he should have one of them.


I also don't like Duchene as a player so theres that.

Fair enough. I like your input.

 

[Fitzy]

Here it is:

http://nypost.com/2012/06/17/rangers-still-targeting-nash/

That's silly on one side of the spectrum; the other is Sather offering Rozsival (who everyone knew was overpaid) + Zherdev (who we didnt even sign) for Dany Heatley, coming off 4 seasons at an average of 45 goals a season.

Some teams ask for the moon, and some teams send awful lowball offers just in case. The difference between these instances and the current Avs one is that eventually the deals moderate out with deliberation and compromise. It isn't clear Sakic is willing to do that.

MacKinnon-Duchene is not the new Forsberg-Sakic, and he should recognize that by now.

 

[LaffyTaffyNYR]

Extremely? No, but I'm not in a hurry to break up this defense before it even has a chance to play a game together. Just because they signed Shattenkirk doesn't make ADA expendable, there are 3 slots on the right side, he should have one of them.


I also don't like Duchene as a player so theres that.

There's a lot of things to like about Duchene (especially if he can get back to that 60 P + player). possession, face offs, speed game..

I'm not trading SKjei for him tho.

 

[GregSirico]

That's silly on one side of the spectrum; the other is Sather offering Rozsival (who everyone knew was overpaid) + Zherdev (who we didnt even sign) for Dany Heatley, coming off 4 seasons at an average of 45 goals a season.

Some teams ask for the moon, and some teams send awful lowball offers just in case. The difference between these instances and the current Avs one is that eventually the deals moderate out with deliberation and compromise. It isn't clear Sakic is willing to do that.

MacKinnon-Duchene is not the new Forsberg-Sakic, and he should recognize that by now.

Also the rest of the team is TERRIBLE. There's a reason they have lost so much of their high level talent.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Fair enough. I like your input.

Yeah I understand the rush that some of us have to fill that spot, but the smart play IMO would be to wait things out and see what we actually have with the players who are already here (short of getting a deal that you just can't pass up.)

Also, you never know who will become available within the next year, there may be a better deal to be had later.

 

[CommaSynapse]

Or even 2C? Probably no one.

Fisher and Ribeiro were the only 2 FA centers left who had or were on pace for at least 40 points. Would you even consider them 2Cs or just good 3Cs? I don't see much else aside from the mentioned guys I'd consider for a 3C role (most of the remainder looked to be a bit lackluster defensively)

Ribeiro had an unfortunate relapse and looks like his playing days are done. I don't see Fisher signing anywhere but Nashville. Cullen is good, but he's just getting old.

Grigorenko might've been a 3C option, but he left for the KHL.

If a 3C is on the shopping list, time for JG to pull a rabbit out of his hat.

 

[LaffyTaffyNYR]

Yeah I understand the rush that some of us have to fill that spot, but the smart play IMO would be to wait things out and see what we actually have with the players who are already here (short of getting a deal that you just can't pass up.)

Also, you never know who will become available within the next year, there may be a better deal to be had later.

This is probably the play honestly.. There might be an actual upgrade at center (that doesn't cost an arm and a leg) available at the trade deadline, Rangers should still be in at at that point.