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Speculation: Free Agent Frenzy Part III - Will EK stay or will EK go?

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pld459666 said:
I'm completely comfortable not knowing what we have and look forward to seeing who steps up and develops into more than what was expected and who falters.

What I do know, from years and years of failures is that chasing the star player is that I've had enough of that.

This rebuilding seems to have some folks worried

While we know chasing star players doesn't work (1 cup in 70+ years) we dont know how a true and legit rebuild will turn out.

This is absolutely an exciting time for the fans and organization.
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I really have no idea what you are talking about? The Rangers have been drafting well since 04 and supplementing with “Star” players. It has worked pretty well for the better part of a decade, since you haven’t been paying attention.
 
Mac n Gs said:
Lol PB, I’m not gonna get into semantics with you, but this is what you just posted on this same page: “The Rangers now market Hajek to us as a McDonagh replacement, which is unfair to Hajek who isn’t that caliber of player.”

Regardless, I agree that he’s not a McDonagh replacement, but he’s a very, very good prospect. You’ve pined for guys that know how to play defense, and congrats, you got him.

Regarding the transition aspect, that’s literally one of the most vital strategies in hockey. There’s numerous data and reports that link successful transition play to better defense, possession, and scoring. AV’s strategies were horrible in this regard because we always overcommitted on forechecks and backchecks and never focused on transitional offense and defense. We rarely moved the puck up ice in five man units and our neutral zone defending was non-existent. I’m very happy that we have guys that know how to be positionally sound in the neutral zone and are both good at carrying and moving the puck up ice.
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I wouldn't agree with the characterization that he's a very, very good prospect. Tampa was willing to let him go. Weren't willing to let Foote or Sergachyov go. Who ranks him as very, very good? Because I haven't seen it, unless its coming from a Rangers-related source. And even if he was very, very good instead of elite, we've acquired a lot of those types of prospects recently. We need elite players. Same problem this team had with the past generation, aside from the goalie. As I've mentioned, its unfair to Hajek that you are making him the center-piece of trading away your best player for the past five years. The team is completely setting him up to fail.

I think the neutral-zone is important, but I think there's a big mistake in overrating its importance. There are goals in two of the zones, the other is the neutral zone. I think there are things the new staff could implement in regards to our NZ tactics and I think its important to have some players who are good in the neutral zone, but what wins Stanley Cups are having the offensive and defensive difference makers. The Penguins, Hawks, Kings weren't the dynasties they were the last decade due to their neutral zone play. They were the dynasties they were because of the elite players they had. It upsets me when the most complimentary thing our GM can say about a player he drafted in the first round is that he moves the puck out of the zone well.
 
Some seem to pan the Rangers drafting but it was their drafting and player development (UDFAs and acquired prospects) that built a core to which got to 2 conference finals and one Stanely Cup final.

They drafted Dubinsky and Anisimov which allowed them to get Nash.

Del Zotto who they traded for Klein.

The drafted Staal, Callahan, Stepan, Kreider, Hagelin, JT Miller, D. Moore etc who played a key role.

Then you have Lundqvist.

Their scouts picked out Girardi who was a workhorse. Same with Zucc. When the traded for McD he wasn't projected to be the player he became. He came through the system.
 
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It takes two to dance, people forget this. We traded a shadow of McDonagh, do you guys prefer Hajek, Howden, Lundkvist, 2nd(maybe 1st) round pick, Namestnikov or McDonagh at 6.75 per 7 years with a full NTC plus JT Miller at 5.25 for 5 years?
I prefer what we got than those contracts, by far. They were looking to trade both and accepted the best offer available, the market has not been good for sellers lately, no need to crucify management for that.
 
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KOVALEV022473 said:
I really have no idea what you are talking about? The Rangers have been drafting well since 04 and supplementing with “Star” players. It has worked pretty well for the better part of a decade, since you haven’t been paying attention.
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Good enough to not win.

Awesome.

I never said that they haven't drafted well. I said that going for Gaborik didn't work. Going for Nash didn't work going for Jagr didn't work.

Your definition of success is deep playoff runs and if you are satisfied with that, I'm happy for you.

I want more. And failing that, I want this team to have a foundation that we can augment with solid players. Not rely on trading for them to lead the team in scoring
 
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pld459666 said:
Good enough to not win.

Awesome.

I never said that they haven't drafted well. I said that going for Gaborik didn't work. Going for Nash didn't work going for Jagr didn't work.

Your definition of success is deep playoff runs and if you are satisfied with that, I'm happy for you.

I want more. And failing that, I want this team to have a foundation that we can augment with solid players. Not rely on trading for them to lead the team in scoring
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Agreed. I'm not holding my hat on a Cup appearance and two losses in the ECF. Not nearly good enough for me. But I might have a different perspecrive than others on here. I was too young for 94. I'm a Jets fan so I don't have the two Super Bowls Giants fans on here have. I'm a Mets fan so I don't have a handful of World Series' Yankees fans have.
 
pld459666 said:
Good enough to not win.

Awesome.

I never said that they haven't drafted well. I said that going for Gaborik didn't work. Going for Nash didn't work going for Jagr didn't work.

Your definition of success is deep playoff runs and if you are satisfied with that, I'm happy for you.

I want more. And failing that, I want this team to have a foundation that we can augment with solid players. Not rely on trading for them to lead the team in scoring
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Five different teams have won in the last ten years.
pld459666 said:
Good enough to not win.

Awesome.

I never said that they haven't drafted well. I said that going for Gaborik didn't work. Going for Nash didn't work going for Jagr didn't work.

Your definition of success is deep playoff runs and if you are satisfied with that, I'm happy for you.

I want more. And failing that, I want this team to have a foundation that we can augment with solid players. Not rely on trading for them to lead the team in scoring
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Well, only ONE team can win at a time, and the same three teams keep winning, this past year excluded. Which they did even with a 34 year old Ovechkin.
 
Fvital92 said:
It takes two to dance, people forget this. We traded a shadow of McDonagh, do you guys prefer Hajek, Howden, Lundkvist, 2nd(maybe 1st) round pick, Namestnikov or McDonagh at 6.75 per 7 years with a full NTC plus JT Miller at 5.25 for 5 years?
I prefer what we got than those contracts, by far. They were looking to trade both and accepted the best offer available, the market has not been good for sellers lately, no need to crucify management for that.
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True, but I believed McDonagh should have been traded along with Stepan at last year's draft. Really last summer was all over the place.

You trade your best player at the most important position in the sport, a position in which we are one of the weakest in the league for futures, that's the type of move that should be the first step of building towards the future. A move that needs to be accompanied by many other similar moves to have maximum effect.

And then two days later you make a win now move in signing Shattenkirk. A player that you expect to put you over the top as a Cup contender.

These two moves were totally contradictory and did not inspire confidence that Gorton had a plan, or at least a direction one way or the other. No in between stuff where you're too good to get (as close to) a surefire franchise talent at the top of the draft, but not good enough to be a legitimate playoff threat.
 
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KOVALEV022473 said:
I really have no idea what you are talking about? The Rangers have been drafting well since 04 and supplementing with “Star” players. It has worked pretty well for the better part of a decade, since you haven’t been paying attention.
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Which of those star players have worked out? Was it Gomez? Redden? Drury? Holik? Even Nash never brought what we were expecting consistently. Pretty sure that's his point.
 
duhmetreE said:
Hajek was #37 in 2016. His D+1 year was amazing. His WJC was amazing. His WHL play has been amazing. ... but forget about how he actually performs and plays...

He's a middle of the road prospect because of where he was drafted and what 'prospect writers' ranked him initially. I mean that's as concrete as it gets.
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Weren't you the person who claimed he'd be the best defensemen on our NHL team this season? No wonder you are defending him so vigorously. You seem to have bought into the team propaganda to cover themselves for what was a bad trade.

#37 is middle of the road. How many players from each draft do you think become regular NHL'ers? Guys after the 2nd round are long-shots. His junior season was not amazing. He had 39 points in 58 games. Just about everyone who puts up points in the NHL averages around 1PPG or better in their age 19/20 junior season in the CHL. Its a junior league. I watched some of his games after we traded for him. He was good defensively, not great. Not a big offensive guy. His WJC was very good, but I'd rather us not hope that a 7 game sample of junior international hockey is more representative than his whole club career so far. Thats how you get buffoons here who claimed Andersson was better than Pettersson. And I didn't say anything about initial ranking. I said ranking. If his ranking has improved, lets see it. Thats right, you don't have it. Thats because no one considers him an elite NHL prospect, besides the people who've been fooled by the team trying to cover themselves.

Lets even take the example of Skjei. He was picked higher than Hajek, did reasonably well, like Hajek through his college hockey and world juniors, but he wasn't ranked that high on most lists. Most that watched him play for a living did not peg him as a big impact guy in the NHL. Fast forward to his rookie season, he scores 39 points and we are told that those people were flat-out wrong about him. Those lists were cited as a reason we shouldn't regard future lists. He was compared to McDonagh. In his second season, he scores 25 points, which is more in line with what was suspected. Defense was good, but not elite facing top level competition. A lot seem to have soured on him because they got fooled by his first season. Thats a shame. Its their own fault. He had a good second season, unless you expected him to be the next McDonagh. His first season he had a lot of secondary points. There were some here who pointed out the flukiness of it.

But no, the Ranger fans knew better than people who had been watching him for years. You must also know better than the people who have been watching Hajek for years. Let me ask, how many games have you seen of Hajek? Have you even ever seen him play? And I actually like Hajek, but the team has set this guy up to fail. He's not going to be a McDonagh replacement. Thats how he's being marketed. He's a middle of the road guy. Maybe he makes it on a middle pair, maybe not.
 
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JT Kreider said:
How come the Rangers are one of the only teams in the league unable to do so?

And I'm being generous with this list here (which works both ways). Maybe not superstars, but high end talent and all better than anyone on the Rangers

Anaheim: Getzlaf, Perry, Rakell

Arizona: Keller and OEL

Boston: Bergeron, Marchand and Pastrnak

Calgary: Monahan and Gaudreau

Carolina: Aho and Slavin

Chicago: Keith and Seabrook

Colorado: Rantanen and Barrie

CBJ: Werenski

Dallas: Benn

Detroit: Zetterberg, Larkin

Florida: Trocheck

LA: Kopitar

Minnesota: Burns

Montreal: Subban and Pacioretty

Nashville: Ellis, Weber Jones, Suter and Josi

Islanders: Barzal and Lee

Ottawa: Karlsson and Stone

Philadelphia: Giroux, Carter, Provorov

Pittsburgh: Letang

STL: Tarasenko and Pietrangelo

San Jose: Pavelski

Tampa: Kucherov and Point

Toronto: Nylander and Kadri

Vancouver: Boeser and Kesler

Washington: Forsberg and Kuznetsov

Winnipeg: Scheifele, Connor, Trouba

Nearly every team has been able to draft a high end talent outside of the top 3 except for the Rangers, Buffalo, Edmonton and New Jersey.

Those 3 teams have 1st overall picks though.

So yeah we are the only team in the league unable to draft a high end talent.
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Because most (if not all) have sucked big time at one point or another and got plumb draft picks. For decades, Rangers have been a bubble/playoff bound team for years which led to them having mid range or high first round picks (IF they had a pick).
 
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Gomez performed fine when he was here and was integral part in acquiring Mac. Gaborik was great! Jagr was great. Nash was just fine until the concussions. MSL carried this team to the final on his back. ONE f***ing team wins the cup a year!
 
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JT Kreider said:
Agreed. I'm not holding my hat on a Cup appearance and two losses in the ECF. Not nearly good enough for me. But I might have a different perspecrive than others on here. I was too young for 94. I'm a Jets fan so I don't have the two Super Bowls Giants fans on here have. I'm a Mets fan so I don't have a handful of World Series' Yankees fans have.
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Continue to hang your head in shame wherever you go.....
 
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Lays said:
Howden is a better prospect at the time. Cirelli has like a year on him but they’re about equal. I don’t know why you compared Cirelli to Lias though, they don’t play similar games and Lias is a much better prospect
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Well I disagree with everything you said here. Cirelli was their best forward on a deep Syracuse team, produced as an NHL rookie and appeared in every playoff game for a Cup contender. Don't think Howden is an NHL player next year, let alone one that plays over 13 mins a game during a Cup run. Think Tampa is very happy they kept him.

Both Andersson and Cirelli are two-way centers that can finish, except Cirelli is faster. Both are 200-foot competitors. Aside from not being twins, they share a lot of similarities.

I would rather have Cirelli, TBH. Quickness as a center is the tipping point for me.
 
Clark has been scouting for a long time. I went back and looked at the Islander and Bruin drafts he was involved in before the Rangers and he grades average to above average. If he had all of the picks that the Rangers have traded, he would have been much easier to grade.

Also, Gorton is in play here too. He and Clark agree on picks. This is not solely delegated to one person. I remember an article several years ago about the two of them meeting for breakfast at Gorton’s house and closely working on their list. I assume Drury is in the middle of these conversations too.

Players sometimes don’t develop as planned. Years ago, I had a conversation with Don Maloney regarding Marcus Jonasen (remember him) Maloney told me he thought they had stole him in the third round but he never developed as expected. It happens.

I trust the process but I don’t want to sleep on elite talent. Make sense?
 
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JT Kreider said:
True, but I believed McDonagh should have been traded along with Stepan at last year's draft. Really last summer was all over the place.

You trade your best player at the most important position in the sport, a position in which we are one of the weakest in the league for futures, that's the type of move that should be the first step of building towards the future. A move that needs to be accompanied by many other similar moves to have maximum effect.

And then two days later you make a win now move in signing Shattenkirk. A player that you expect to put you over the top as a Cup contender.

These two moves were totally contradictory and did not inspire confidence that Gorton had a plan, or at least a direction one way or the other. No in between stuff where you're too good to get (as close to) a surefire franchise talent at the top of the draft, but not good enough to be a legitimate playoff threat.
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I don't think they were thinking about a rebuild when they traded Stepan, it was more about his NTC kicking in and they weren't in love with being stuck with him for years to come.
The rebuild, at least for me, started with the letter last season, from that point until the front office has been pretty coherent in their actions.
 
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Lays said:
Yzerman even says he think he gave up too much. You’re not getting a guy on Point/Serg’s level for McDonagh. We got good value back. Would I have preferred a little more? Sure. But if that’s the best offer on the table then you take it, McDonaghs value would’ve been much lower in the off-season than it was at the time. We got Hajek+Howden+Lundkvist+Namestnikov+a 2nd (maybe extra 1st) out of it. That’s pretty solid considering McD was on a big decline and Miller didn’t fit. You have two potential top 4 D’s, a top 9 winger, potential middle 6 C, and 31st-61st overall next year which is also a deep draft. I’m fine with it at this point
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I would trade the entire McDonagh/Miller return for only Sergachev or Point. Stars over stockpile.

But that's just me.
 
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The season really can’t start soon enough. This thread is just a bunch of arguing and posturing about nothing concrete whatsoever
 
I love Hajek, FWIW. That kid carried brutal teams. Like AV gave all his coaches defense tips.

I'm thinking/hoping Chytil, Hajek, Andersson, Kravtsov, Pionk, Skjei, Shestyorkin, Buchnevich end up as core guys who don't go anywhere. Think Rykov and Sjalin are my surprise types like Stralman. And I like Ronning's compete level. Think he has a nice career in the NHL.

The rest may just end up being trade bait or Hartford regulars. Always turns out that way. The key is selling high, which the Rangers rarely do.
 
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Steve Kournianos said:
I love Hajek, FWIW. That kid carried brutal teams. Like AV gave all his coaches defense tips.

I'm thinking/hoping Chytil, Hajek, Andersson, Kravtsov, Pionk, Skjei, Shestyorkin, Buchnevich end up as core guys who don't go anywhere. Think Rykov and Sjalin are my surprise types like Stralman. And I like Ronning's compete level. Think he has a nice career in the NHL.

The rest may just end up being trade bait or Hartford regulars. Always turns out that way. The key is selling high, which the Rangers rarely do.
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Howden will more than likely not be AHL fodder. I see his ceiling a bit higher than most and I think @Edge would agree. He also has a high floor. Hes going to be an NHL talent and playing center. He has the attributes to be a key piece of the new core with his play and leadership.

The question is will he be a 2, 3 or 4C.
 
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