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Speculation: Free Agent Frenzy Part III - Will EK stay or will EK go?

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Steve Kournianos said:
That's how you're interpreting it. It's not what I'm saying.

I'm saying that if you trade your best player, best dman, captain whatever, then you should get in return one of their untouchables or close to it.

Howden is a very good prospect. He's not "poor" by any means. But I'm going to guess Yzerman didn't lose any sleep trading him, knowing full well he was able to retain Cirelli, Sergachev, Point, Foote etc.
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This is exactly the problem. We give up a 1D, they give up nothing of value to them. They marked Point, Sergachyov and Foote off limits. Gorton had shown his cards too much, he knew he was going to trade McDonagh, so he had to settle for a bad deal. The Rangers now market Hajek to us as a McDonagh replacement, which is unfair to Hajek who isn’t that caliber of player.
 
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Pavel Buchnevich said:
This is exactly the problem. We give up a 1D, they give up nothing of value to them. They marked Point, Sergachyov and Foote off limits. Gorton had shown his cards too much, he knew he was going to trade McDonagh, so he had to settle for a bad deal. The Rangers now market Hajek to us as a McDonagh replacement, which is unfair to Hajek who isn’t that caliber of player.
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Have they actually said that because I find it very hard to believe.
 
Savant said:
The Gropp draft was a disaster. Tbat year I wanted to do Hagelin for Palmeri instead of those picks. But that obviously did not work out. I didnt think that was a great draft year .

Tampa also has a much much much better AHL staff than the Rangers do they develop those players. Hartford has seemed an after thought at best, but hopefully Drury is turning that around
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Other organizations draft based on need....they have a system in place which is implemented on every level. Other organizations also built from the bottom up. People are always amazed that other teams can bring up kids who step right in and perform as if they'd been there the entire time. That's because they know exactly what their role is and what they have to do.

Rangers always tried to built at the top....sign names who (in most cases) do not fit whatever that season's "mode" is...picking up reclamation projects hoping to find that elusive star, etc. I'm not even going into their coaching choices.
 
Savant said:
Sure, but its lower probability the further away from there you get. Especially considering how the championship teams since the lockout have been constructed.
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How come the Rangers are one of the only teams in the league unable to do so?

And I'm being generous with this list here (which works both ways). Maybe not superstars, but high end talent and all better than anyone on the Rangers

Anaheim: Getzlaf, Perry, Rakell

Arizona: Keller and OEL

Boston: Bergeron, Marchand and Pastrnak

Calgary: Monahan and Gaudreau

Carolina: Aho and Slavin

Chicago: Keith and Seabrook

Colorado: Rantanen and Barrie

CBJ: Werenski

Dallas: Benn

Detroit: Zetterberg, Larkin

Florida: Trocheck

LA: Kopitar

Minnesota: Burns

Montreal: Subban and Pacioretty

Nashville: Ellis, Weber Jones, Suter and Josi

Islanders: Barzal and Lee

Ottawa: Karlsson and Stone

Philadelphia: Giroux, Carter, Provorov

Pittsburgh: Letang

STL: Tarasenko and Pietrangelo

San Jose: Pavelski

Tampa: Kucherov and Point

Toronto: Nylander and Kadri

Vancouver: Boeser and Kesler

Washington: Forsberg and Kuznetsov

Winnipeg: Scheifele, Connor, Trouba

Nearly every team has been able to draft a high end talent outside of the top 3 except for the Rangers, Buffalo, Edmonton and New Jersey.

Those 3 teams have 1st overall picks though.

So yeah we are the only team in the league unable to draft a high end talent.
 
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Mac n Gs said:
Have they actually said that because I find it very hard to believe.
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That’s what their mouth piece reports. They had the nerve to try to sell to us that they never wanted Foote, they wanted Hajek. He sold Hajek to us as the player who made the deal possible. There was an article about this at the time of the trade. I can’t find it now since I’m on my phone, but later I can.

Who do you think is telling him this?
 
Don’t understand why people choose to ignore that there still is a decent amount of luck involved in the draft

Luck also might be the biggest factor in getting “star” talent
 
Pavel Buchnevich said:
That’s what their mouth piece reports. They had the nerve to try to sell to us that they never wanted Foote, they wanted Hajek. He sold Hajek to us as the player who made the deal possible. There was an article about this at the time of the trade. I can’t find it now since I’m on my phone, but later I can.

Who do you think is telling him this?
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Ok, I’ll wait to see the link then. I don’t remember reading anything about them not wanting Foote, but it was them pushing for Hajek that sealed the deal. I don’t think Foote was ever on the table. I also don’t remember them ever heralding Hajek as a McDonagh replacement.
 
Alluckks said:
Don’t understand why people choose to ignore that there still is a decent amount of luck involved in the draft

Luck also might be the biggest factor in getting “star” talent
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So the Rangers are the only team unable to draft a high end talent because they are unlucky???

Holy Batman homer excuses
 
Mac n Gs said:
Ok, I’ll wait to see the link then. I don’t remember reading anything about them not wanting Foote, but it was them pushing for Hajek that sealed the deal. I don’t think Foote was ever on the table. I also don’t remember them ever heralding Hajek as a McDonagh replacement.
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You remember right.

This is what the mouthpiece said

If the Rangers obtained a future franchise linchpin, Hajek, the Czech-born defenseman coming off an extremely impressive World Juniors, is most likely the guy. He is the Tampa Bay prospect who Gorton had targeted for weeks. He is the one, we understand, without whom the Blueshirts would not have gone through with sending their captain to a tax-haven reunion with Callahan, Girardi and Anton Stralman.
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https://nypost.com/2018/02/26/rangers-went-all-in-on-risky-rebuild-thats-only-ticket-to-glory/
 
Steve Kournianos said:
Cirelli. Money player and super clutch. Similar to Andersson but bigger and quicker. Howden's playmaking is the only thing he has over Cirelli.
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Howden is a better prospect at the time. Cirelli has like a year on him but they’re about equal. I don’t know why you compared Cirelli to Lias though, they don’t play similar games and Lias is a much better prospect
 
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JT Kreider said:
How come the Rangers are one of the only teams in the league unable to do so?

And I'm being generous with this list here. Maybe not superstars by high end talent and all better than anyone on the Rangers

Anaheim: Getzlaf, Perry, Rakell

Arizona: Keller and OEL

Boston: Bergeron, Marchand and Pastrnak

Calgary: Monahan and Gaudreau

Carolina: Aho and Slavin

Chicago: Keith and Seabrook

Colorado: Rantanen and Barrie

CBJ: Werenski

Dallas: Benn

Detroit: Zetterberg, Larkin

Florida: Trocheck

LA: Kopitar

Minnesota: Burns

Montreal: Subban and Pacioretty

Nashville: Ellis and Josi

Islanders: Barzal and Lee

Ottawa: Karlsson and Stone

Philadelphia: Giroux, Carter, Provorov

Pittsburgh: Letang

STL: Tarasenko and Pietrangelo

San Jose: Pavelski

Tampa: Kucherov and Point

Toronto: Nylander and Kadri

Vancouver: Boeser and Kesler

Washington: Forsberg and Kuznetsov

Winnipeg: Scheifele, Connor, Trouba

Nearly every team has been able to draft a high end talent outside of the top 3 except for the Rangers, Buffalo, Edmonton and New Jersey.

Those 3 teams have 1st overall picks though.

So yeah we are the only team in the league unable to draft a high end talent.
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Gorton has a post draft quote that I found so revealing.

He was talking about Lundkvist and one of the main things he said in describing him is that he “can move a puck.”

He didn’t tell us that he has great offensive upside or that he’s a lockdown defender. Gorton picks a player in the first round based on their ability to transition the pick out of the zone. He values that over skills that contribute more to winning and losing. And people wonder why we never have star players. This team doesn’t know how to draft those players. They are compiling a lot of middle of the lineup players.
 
JT Kreider said:
How come the Rangers are one of the only teams in the league unable to do so?

And I'm being generous with this list here (which works both ways). Maybe not superstars, but high end talent and all better than anyone on the Rangers

Anaheim: Getzlaf, Perry, Rakell

Arizona: Keller and OEL

Boston: Bergeron, Marchand and Pastrnak

Calgary: Monahan and Gaudreau

Carolina: Aho and Slavin

Chicago: Keith and Seabrook

Colorado: Rantanen and Barrie

CBJ: Werenski

Dallas: Benn

Detroit: Zetterberg, Larkin

Florida: Trocheck

LA: Kopitar

Minnesota: Burns

Montreal: Subban and Pacioretty

Nashville: Ellis and Josi

Islanders: Barzal and Lee

Ottawa: Karlsson and Stone

Philadelphia: Giroux, Carter, Provorov

Pittsburgh: Letang

STL: Tarasenko and Pietrangelo

San Jose: Pavelski

Tampa: Kucherov and Point

Toronto: Nylander and Kadri

Vancouver: Boeser and Kesler

Washington: Forsberg and Kuznetsov

Winnipeg: Scheifele, Connor, Trouba

Nearly every team has been able to draft a high end talent outside of the top 3 except for the Rangers, Buffalo, Edmonton and New Jersey.

Those 3 teams have 1st overall picks though.

So yeah we are the only team in the league unable to draft a high end talent.
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Rangers:

Kreider: top line LW
Staal: top-pairing D-man for almost a decade
Lundqvist: Elite goalie
Stepan: Top line center

That's high-end talent, drafted by the Rangers.
 
JT Kreider said:
How come the Rangers are one of the only teams in the league unable to do so?

And I'm being generous with this list here (which works both ways). Maybe not superstars, but high end talent and all better than anyone on the Rangers

Anaheim: Getzlaf, Perry, Rakell

Arizona: Keller and OEL

Boston: Bergeron, Marchand and Pastrnak

Calgary: Monahan and Gaudreau

Carolina: Aho and Slavin

Chicago: Keith and Seabrook

Colorado: Rantanen and Barrie

CBJ: Werenski

Dallas: Benn

Detroit: Zetterberg, Larkin

Florida: Trocheck

LA: Kopitar

Minnesota: Burns

Montreal: Subban and Pacioretty

Nashville: Ellis and Josi

Islanders: Barzal and Lee

Ottawa: Karlsson and Stone

Philadelphia: Giroux, Carter, Provorov

Pittsburgh: Letang

STL: Tarasenko and Pietrangelo

San Jose: Pavelski

Tampa: Kucherov and Point

Toronto: Nylander and Kadri

Vancouver: Boeser and Kesler

Washington: Forsberg and Kuznetsov

Winnipeg: Scheifele, Connor, Trouba

Nearly every team has been able to draft a high end talent outside of the top 3 except for the Rangers, Buffalo, Edmonton and New Jersey.

Those 3 teams have 1st overall picks though.

So yeah we are the only team in the league unable to draft a high end talent.
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Lundqvist? Stepan would be comparable to some listed here. Kreider?
 
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Amazing Kreiderman said:
Rangers:

Kreider: top line LW
Staal: top-pairing D-man for almost a decade
Lundqvist: Elite goalie
Stepan: Top line center

That's high-end talent, drafted by the Rangers.
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Kreider, Staal or Stepan are not on the level of any of those players.

Maybe Larkin but I was just being generous there. And either way rhere, no way we can compare our player development and drafting to that of Detroit's.
 
Mac n Gs said:
Ok, I’ll wait to see the link then. I don’t remember reading anything about them not wanting Foote, but it was them pushing for Hajek that sealed the deal. I don’t think Foote was ever on the table. I also don’t remember them ever heralding Hajek as a McDonagh replacement.
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I didn’t say they hailed him as a McDonagh replacement but they talk him up as such. He’s a middle of the road prospect by like any measure. Where he was picked, where prospect writers rank him, his stats. If that’s your main piece in that trade, you got fleeced.
 
Steve Kournianos said:
That's how you're interpreting it. It's not what I'm saying.

I'm saying that if you trade your best player, best dman, captain whatever, then you should get in return one of their untouchables or close to it.

Howden is a very good prospect. He's not "poor" by any means. But I'm going to guess Yzerman didn't lose any sleep trading him, knowing full well he was able to retain Cirelli, Sergachev, Point, Foote etc.
Click to expand...
Yzerman even says he think he gave up too much. You’re not getting a guy on Point/Serg’s level for McDonagh. We got good value back. Would I have preferred a little more? Sure. But if that’s the best offer on the table then you take it, McDonaghs value would’ve been much lower in the off-season than it was at the time. We got Hajek+Howden+Lundkvist+Namestnikov+a 2nd (maybe extra 1st) out of it. That’s pretty solid considering McD was on a big decline and Miller didn’t fit. You have two potential top 4 D’s, a top 9 winger, potential middle 6 C, and 31st-61st overall next year which is also a deep draft. I’m fine with it at this point
 
Pavel Buchnevich said:
Gorton has a post draft quote that I found so revealing.

He was talking about Lundkvist and one of the main things he said in describing him is that he “can move a puck.”

He didn’t tell us that he has great offensive upside or that he’s a lockdown defender. Gorton picks a player in the first round based on their ability to transition the pick out of the zone. He values that over skills that contribute more to winning and losing. And people wonder why we never have star players. This team doesn’t know how to draft those players. They are compiling a lot of middle of the lineup players.
Click to expand...

If he did and he picked a player you didn't like, you'd be complaining about how they never value actual defense from defensemen or how they picked a low upside 4-6 D.
 
UAGoalieGuy said:
Lundqvist? Stepan would be comparable to some listed here. Kreider?
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Who would Stepan be comparable to other than Larkin and Kadri (who has scored 30 goals back to back and 61 points last year as a 3rd line center)

And Lundqvist is irrelevant here because we are talking offensive talent.
 
Maloney is notorious for the Jessiman pick, but 04 was really a wasteland for us. Montoya at 6, then again neither Olesz nor Tukonen (both vouched for by top NYR scouts) had careers either. Korpikoski at 19, we almost went Zajac. Is that a game changer? Probably not, but it’s a puzzle piece missing.

Interesting to note, we sexted with a slew of 2nd rounders, either by draft or later via trade: Chris Bourque, Darin Olver, Roman Voloshenko (RIP), Bruce Graham, Dane Byers, Enver Lisin; all prior to Dubinsky at 60. Its a Murders Row of hot garbage, and although Dubinsky had a legitimate NHL career, he didn’t ‘move the needle’ - he was mostly a tough 3rd line kid that capped out at 40 points - not that there’s anything wrong with that.
 
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