Speculation: Free Agent Frenzy Part III - Will EK stay or will EK go?

[Good Intentions]

I don’t know about the trashing of Gordie Clark.

I think we oversimplify things. Give a draft — at least — 5 years. Look back at the top 60 picks in 2010, 2012 and 2013. Is it easy to draft players? Is all you need to do just to pick the concensus kid?

There is a slight overweight in the top 12, and sure it’s not better to pick late, but it’s not by much. It’s darn random. All top 4 picks are crap one year. Another year only 1/4 picks become decent NHLers from like 5-6 to 30. And so forth and so forth.

My point is just, forget about just going with the concensus pick. Some drafts you could go with the concensus pick and have the No 1 pick overall, No 2 pick overall, No 3 pick overall and No 4 pick overall — and still walk away with nothing, just crap. Yaks, R Murray, Galchenyuk and G Reinhardt.

If we look at our last drafts, Skjei, Kreider, JT Miller and co — aren’t they pretty good picks? Buch was a good pick, Duke looked promising.

Some really good points.

I’ll go back to a question I often ask: Is this guy an NHL player - or does he move the needle? I don’t know if Buchnevich is part of the latter, yet.

 

[nyr2k2]

I love Brooks. He posts an article that gets people to read it (his main job), stimulates actual conversation, and seems to troll the shit out of everyone at the same time. I don't know how, after all these years, this board hasn't realized that's what he does.

 

[silverfish]

There's no real thing as safety so there's no point drafting a safe player. Outside of the top couple of picks can you say any player is an absolute guarantee to put up 50+ points? You can't. So what's safety? Getting a guy who is guaranteed to be a 4th line player? There's no value in that you can sign those in August for the league minimum. You should just always be drafting the guy you think has the highest upside and the risk doesn't matter because if you have a bunch of them the likelihood is most will bust but you will get some great players too. Safe draft picks are McDavid, Eichel, and Matthews. Not Andersson vs Mittelstadt.

Go outside.

 

[Kakko Schmakko]

They had seven picks in both 2014 and 2o15 and the only skater under contract is Gropp. I don't expect them to draft stars in the 3rd and 5th rounds. But to draft kids, only to cut and run after a year or two, screams ineptitude to me. And that was before the deadline acquisitions.

Look at Tampa's top scorers at Syracuse:

Joseph (4th/2015)
Cirelli (3rd/2015)
Volkov (2nd/2017)
Stephens (2nd/2015)

And in 2015 they went to the SCF.

Yes, but look at the skating and character of our prospects they beat scoring ability in Gordie Clark's mind And we drafted a son of our scout who wasn't going to be drafted and we could have just signed as a free agent.

 

[E-Train]

How so?

Foote was seemingly untouchable in the McD talks. The other prospects listed, not so much. You're making it sound like Howden was a poor pick out of their stock. I disagree.

 

[thethirdhockeyman91]

I love Brooks. He posts an article that gets people to read it (his main job), stimulates actual conversation, and seems to troll the **** out of everyone at the same time. I don't know how, after all these years, this board hasn't realized that's what he does.

‘’That’s what I saying Brooksie, get that through your head. Well good then get the f*** out of here.’’

 

[AlternateSideParking]

Foote was seemingly untouchable in the McD talks. The other prospects listed, not so much. You're making it sound like Howden was a poor pick out of their stock. I disagree.

That's how you're interpreting it. It's not what I'm saying.

I'm saying that if you trade your best player, best dman, captain whatever, then you should get in return one of their untouchables or close to it.

Howden is a very good prospect. He's not "poor" by any means. But I'm going to guess Yzerman didn't lose any sleep trading him, knowing full well he was able to retain Cirelli, Sergachev, Point, Foote etc.

 

[Savant]

They had seven picks in both 2014 and 2o15 and the only skater under contract is Gropp. I don't expect them to draft stars in the 3rd and 5th rounds. But to draft kids, only to cut and run after a year or two, screams ineptitude to me. And that was before the deadline acquisitions.

Look at Tampa's top scorers at Syracuse:

Joseph (4th/2015)
Cirelli (3rd/2015)
Volkov (2nd/2017)
Stephens (2nd/2015)

And in 2015 they went to the SCF.

The Gropp draft was a disaster. Tbat year I wanted to do Hagelin for Palmeri instead of those picks. But that obviously did not work out. I didnt think that was a great draft year .

Tampa also has a much much much better AHL staff than the Rangers do they develop those players. Hartford has seemed an after thought at best, but hopefully Drury is turning that around

 

[UAGoalieGuy]

Whelp Eklund said the Rangers are "back in" to get Karlsson. Puts that arguement to bed.

 

[Savant]

That's how you're interpreting it. It's not what I'm saying.

I'm saying that if you trade your best player, best dman, captain whatever, then you should get in return one of their untouchables or close to it.

Howden is a very good prospect. He's not "poor" by any means. But I'm going to guess Yzerman didn't lose any sleep trading him, knowing full well he was able to retain Cirelli, Sergachev, Point, Foote etc.

Well hold on. Only one of those players had a chance of being available. Would you rather have Cirelli or Howden?

 

[AlternateSideParking]

Yes, but look at the skating and character of our prospects they beat scoring ability in Gordie Clark's mind And we drafted a son of our scout who wasn't going to be drafted and we could have just signed as a free agent.

Bill Torrey taught Jimmy Devellano about the importance of drafting for skill and puck handling.
Jimmy Devellano taught Neil Smith and Ken Holland the importance of drafting for skill and puck handling.
Ken Holland taught Steve Yzerman the importance of drafting for skill puck handling.

Lots of Cups among those names, including one for us.

 

[Siddi]

Rangers are about as incompetent at drafting as they are in trading and signing and in finding great coaches. I don't really understand what they are doing right now. They were too reactive rather than pro-active going into the draft resulting in failure to trade away anybody. They should have tried to do more at the deadline trying to trade Spooner and Lundqvist to help tank more and get better draft picks and more chance to win a lottery.

We have a good discussion going on and then someone posts this.

 

[AlternateSideParking]

Well hold on. Only one of those players had a chance of being available. Would you rather have Cirelli or Howden?

Cirelli. Money player and super clutch. Similar to Andersson but bigger and quicker. Howden's playmaking is the only thing he has over Cirelli.

 

[E-Train]

That's how you're interpreting it. It's not what I'm saying.

I'm saying that if you trade your best player, best dman, captain whatever, then you should get in return one of their untouchables or close to it.

Howden is a very good prospect. He's not "poor" by any means. But I'm going to guess Yzerman didn't lose any sleep trading him, knowing full well he was able to retain Cirelli, Sergachev, Point, Foote etc.

Fair enough. I don't think Cirelli fits with Serge, Point and Foote though. I'm sure there would've been a ton of complaining if it were Cirelli rather than Howden as the forward piece.

 

[SA16]

Go outside.

The sun is too dangerous

 

[JT Kreider]

Between Clark having Gropp as the 6th ranked forward in the 2015 draft (which will go down as one of the deepest of all time) and all the talent he missed out on with his atrocious drafting in the 2nd round, any trashing of Clark in this thread is well deserved.

And ignoring that, the Rangers are one of, if not the only team in the league unable to develop an elite high end offensive talent. Or at the very least a 65+ point player.

There has to be a reason for that.

And its not because we've been a playoff team since the lockout.

There are plenty of teams who were able to find that type of talent outside the top of the draft.

 

[nyr2k2]

What you "should" get in a trade is a silly concept. Everyone has their opinions on what you "should" get. They can even be based on past deals! But if what other GMs are offering doesn't align with what you think you should get, then what do you do? Do you just not make the move because you think you should also get another first and Point? Or do you wait until later when a player's value may be either more or less? Or do you take the best offer you can work?

If you told me we were moving Miller and McDonagh, I could certainly tell you what we "should" get. But, that would be an opinion. My opinion of what we should have gotten was apparently not going to be available, and given TB was loading up for a Cup run, it's hard for me to believe their offer would be higher now/at the draft than it was then. So again, what I believe we "should" have gotten is irrelevant, since it doesn't appear anyone was offering their two best prospects, multiple firsts and a young roster player for Miller and McDonagh. It is what it is. We ended up taking what was apparently the best deal, and it was a pretty good one--putting aside my idea of what we "should" have received.

 

[silverfish]

The sun is too dangerous

The sun does not have a Norris trophy though and Carey Price has a Hart so idk wtf you are talking about

 

[Tawnos]

Well hold on. Only one of those players had a chance of being available. Would you rather have Cirelli or Howden?

The only real thing Cirelli has over Howden is that he’s a year older and so has an extra year of development progress under his belt. So at this moment, Cirelli is more of a sure thing. As prospects, I have a hard time seeing how Cirelli has much more than that over Howden.

I also suspect that if we had gotten Cirelli, we would have the same people talking about how we should’ve gotten Howden.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

I said they are better at trading/signing than drafting. Didn't say they haven't made great picks before.

Their top five goal scorers from last season were not drafted by the Rangers.

Nash
Grabner
Hayes
Vesey
Zebahejad

Four of their top five scorers from the President's Trophy team on 2014-15 were not drafted by the Rangers:

Zucc
Nash
MSL
Brassard

As a "draft analyst" you have to take draft position into consideration. Where did the Rangers pick? Because you can't really blame them for not drafting a superstar when they have had not even a handful of top-3 picks since JFK was shot.

They had seven picks in both 2014 and 2o15 and the only skater under contract is Gropp. I don't expect them to draft stars in the 3rd and 5th rounds. But to draft kids, only to cut and run after a year or two, screams ineptitude to me. And that was before the deadline acquisitions.

Look at Tampa's top scorers at Syracuse:

Joseph (4th/2015)
Cirelli (3rd/2015)
Volkov (2nd/2017)
Stephens (2nd/2015)

And in 2015 they went to the SCF.

Okay. So you mention 1(!) team to prove your point? Bravo.

 

[JT Kreider]

As a "draft analyst" you have to take draft position into consideration. Where did the Rangers pick? Because you can't really blame them for not drafting a superstar when they have had not even a handful of top-3 picks since JFK was shot.

Plenty of superstars have been drafted outside of the top 3.

 

[Savant]

The only real thing Cirelli has over Howden is that he’s a year older and so has an extra year of development progress under his belt. So at this moment, Cirelli is more of a sure thing. As prospects, I have a hard time seeing how Cirelli has much more than that over Howden.

I also suspect that if we had gotten Cirelli, we would have the same people talking about how we should’ve gotten Howden.

I agree. I think Howden has a high ceiling. Cirelli has received great coaching which has helped him out.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Plenty of superstars have been drafted outside of the top 3.

Yes, but after the top-3 it's a gamble. After the top-10 it's a crapshoot.

How many people had Kucherov in the top-10 in 2011? How many people had Kuznetssov in the top-10 in 2010? Or Mark Stone in 2010. Or Cam Atkinson in 2008.

Hindsight is 20/20. And you cannot judge yesterday's draft based on today's knowledge. There, I just paraphrased Mark Twain haha

 

[Savant]

Plenty of superstars have been drafted outside of the top 3.

Sure, but its lower probability the further away from there you get. Especially considering how the championship teams since the lockout have been constructed.

 

[Savant]

Yes, but after the top-3 it's a gamble. After the top-10 it's a crapshoot.

How many people had Kucherov in the top-10 in 2011? How many people had Kuznetssov in the top-10 in 2010? Or Mark Stone in 2010. Or Cam Atkinson in 2008.

Hindsight is 20/20. And to judge yesterday's draft based on today's knowledge. There, I just paraphrased Mark Twain haha

Rangers had Kuznetsov in their top 10 (over Tarasenko). But I guess they had McIlrath at 9. D'oh

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Rangers had Kuznetsov in their top 10 (over Tarasenko). But I guess they had McIlrath at 9. D'oh

And while I disagree with McIlrath (as everyone does), I don't think anyone here had Kuznetsov as a top-10 pick. Whoever says they did and can't prove it, they are lying.

Too often do I see people "claim" to have this or that player in their top-10 but they can't back it up.