GDT: Free Agent Frenzy Part III - Looking for Mr. Centerman

[mas0764]

Once again me and you are on the same page. Kovy is a pipedream, Duchene is very realistic.

Not sure how we cram that salary in.

Unless Staal is moved outright.

 

[bernmeister]

You will never win anything with the entire roster on ELCs, which for some reason it what you desire
Will you want to trade kreidee when he signs long term?

Exaggerates the general premise that I have made which NYR mgmt has apparently adopted, get younger, cheaper, etc.

Bern I do not think you are psycho. I like you but many of the wholesale 4-10 significant player moves you advocate at a time are just unrealistic. Some teams make 2-4 significant player moves in a full year. You may also put an over emphasis on age (NTC clauses) and a underemphasis on actual production at times. Looking at the contracts Marleau and Thornton got shows that no matter how old production is still important. The Penguins are one of the oldest teams in the NHL. How many times would you have gutted them before they won the last two cups?

2 pts here
1 -- I am guilty as charged on emphasizing potential vs experience
potential is usually younger, costs less, and is swapped and received in greater quantity when vet is surrendered in exchange
As a general rule, that is long term sensible, and I stand to it.

2 -- comprehensive nature of multi-moves
unfortunately, Rangers have been such a mess for so long, a situation compounded by the win now disasters of EStaal trades and others, that a single tweak here or there is not enough to heal the patient

til tom happy 4th for all!

 

[Dr. Ogrodnick]

I am aware that there is substantial rejection of several of my props

It is my hope that as I can learn from the rest of the board, it can learn from me.

Case in point: Stepan
from earliest on, I insisted that he was worth more to us in trade than production.

the backlash was severe, no no that couldn't possibly be correct.
I said he would plateau, which he did, and if his production remained the same, he would be worth more at a lower salary contract.

Still, no no no, Stepan is this, Stepan is that, no no no.
The emperor who should be recognized now for having no clothes, one of our prominent posters, continued to say that no no no Stepan will be happily retained
even with killer restriction clause
unless AZ or somebody OVERPAYS OVERPAYS OVERPAYS.
thru the nose, after all, this is the great Stepan

push comes to shove, the market spoke.
Stepan was NOT all that and a bag of chips
those who were arrogant in insisting that was the case were made to bend buckle and break by reality

We were lucky to get what we got, which is in line with the more modest price I set.

by extension,
people say I overrate Hertl
if you adjust the overinflated Stepan back down to reality, and
further compensate for fact Hertl has been injured coupla times
my valuation is not THAT far off.


I don't mind fair critique
I hope people are objective in their assessments, and any updates thereto.

Too early to say if Stepan is worth more in trade than in production, considering the Rangers haven't replaced his production yet and its very possible none of the assets he was moved for contribute very much this season. So breaking your arm to pat yourself on the back for that is at best premature.

You had the Rangers trading half the team for Hertl. Your valuation was way off and it isn't even debateable.

No mention of Nieves as a first line center and Staal as a 4th line left winger huh? I mean, I'd be embarrassed by those too....

 

[Lion Hound]

​

Staal is at best our 4th best LH Dman and could be our 6th best LH Dman. I would look to move him if possible.

Completely agree with that. With that said, I don't know that NYR agree with that. Bracing for the impact of Staal/Shatty or Staal/Smith as the 2nd pairing.


If Gorton is able to move him for a 3C or anyone for that matter then he gets legendary status IMO. Im not convinced though.

 

[NickyFotiu]

Exaggerates the general premise that I have made which NYR mgmt has apparently adopted, get younger, cheaper, etc.



2 pts here
1 -- I am guilty as charged on emphasizing potential vs experience
potential is usually younger, costs less, and is swapped and received in greater quantity when vet is surrendered in exchange
As a general rule, that is long term sensible, and I stand to it.

2 -- comprehensive nature of multi-moves
unfortunately, Rangers have been such a mess for so long, a situation compounded by the win now disasters of EStaal trades and others, that a single tweak here or there is not enough to heal the patient

til tom happy 4th for all!

2 points in response.

1. While your posts are goofy at times I do not see much difference in your posts than a guy that pretends to be an insider on this board. Actually you were right about Stepan getting moved while he was 100% wrong about Shatty for months so you do have that point. I think most people would just like you to be a little more realistic about your trade proposals.

2. The Rangers have not been a mess for so long. They have been one of the 5-6 best teams in the league since 2012.

 

[duhmetreE]

Move Nash for 1st round+ or a good prospect
I'd overpay for Duchene if needed. Hayes+Graves+Day+(whatever we got for Nash)
mid round picks for Kovalchuk

You get the top6 center and goal scorer/game changer you need.

Kovalchuk Zibanejad Zuccs
Kreider Duchene Buchnevich
Vesey Andersson Miller
Grabner Nieves Fast

 

[NickyFotiu]

​

Completely agree with that. With that said, I don't know that NYR agree with that. Bracing for the impact of Staal/Shatty or Staal/Smith as the 2nd pairing.


If Gorton is able to move him for a 3C or anyone for that matter then he gets legendary status IMO. Im not convinced though.

That would be a heck of a move but even a trade of Staal at 50% for a 2nd round pick would be a win based on how many LH Dmen we have on the roster.

 

[Revel]

Jiri Hudler is still available. Could probably be signed for somewhere around 1.5 for a season. Plays Center and Wing. Could be just what we need to plug that Center/Wing hole for a season.

 

[Mac n Gs]

I think Radulov signing may be a catalyst for one of our moves. Hopefully he signs soon.

Also, we aren't getting Duchene. Sakic wanted Skei for Barrie, which means he's going to want him for Duchene. Hell be in Columbus before the week is over.

 

[NickyFotiu]

Move Nash for 1st round+ or a good prospect
I'd overpay for Duchene if needed. Hayes+Graves+Day+(whatever we got for Nash)
mid round picks for Kovalchuk

You get the top6 center and goal scorer/game changer you need.

Hayes (49 points), 1st round pick (From Nash Trade), May, and Graves is a lot to give up for Duchene (41 points). Not saying you are wrong but we would be largely emptying our cupboard for a guy who some say is declining.

 

[Lion Hound]

Nearly everyone wants to see a revamped Defense. Rangers accomplished it so far. 3 new pieces for the most part since trade deadline last season.

Regarding Staal however. There's silence. Bloggers mention it, but have any of the big names mentioned him in a trade? Bobfather, Kyper, Dreger. Anyone on the beat? Unless I missed it, I haven't seen anything.

This season, Stepamntrade was nearly pinpointed to the draft pick and specified players a week prior to it happening.

Everyone was on Shatty to NYR. Even report he would take a haircut to play here.

This off season hasn't been as tight lipped. For that reason im not convinced they have a partner for Staal. Girardi contract in Tampa was encouraging. By HF standard he was an unwanted player. So hopefully someone will find maybe some leadship ability, some mentoring of younger defenseman. Right team, with the right pairing he could be useful somewhere. Can Gorton make it happen though? Not convinced.

 

[Inferno]

On the Rangers here are the left handed defenseman i would take over staal.

1)McDonagh
2)Skjei
3)Smith
4)Holden


so id say he's at best the 5th best left handed defenseman...taking into account that in all likelyhood Smith is playing the right side..then he's the 4th best.

Holden can play the right side too..so then if you wanna do that..Staal is number 3.

The problem then becomes...you have Staal and Holden as your 3rd pair...thats just...awful..i dont care how amazing that top 4 is..if your bottom pair is that awful, you HAVE to play the top 2 pairs 25 minutes a night..literally no choice.

rangers 100% have to trade one of staal or holden..and TBH i think they should trade both.

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

Can't wait for Duchene to actually be traded so he is no longer brought up

Let someone else pay the Aves crazy price

 

[Trxjw]

I think Radulov signing may be a catalyst for one of our moves. Hopefully he signs soon.

Also, we aren't getting Duchene. Sakic wanted Skei for Barrie, which means he's going to want him for Duchene. Hell be in Columbus before the week is over.

Yeah if Dallas misses out on Radulov, perhaps Nash becomes an option for them. With Seguin, Spezza, and Hanzal down the middle, maybe they'd move Faksa.

 

[Maximus]

Me thinks JG is going to wait it out for awhile, assess the landscape and when he's good and ready, he'll start getting serious about addressing the void down the middle.

I don't get the impression Gorton is in love with Grigerenko or really anyone out there. I wouldn't shock me in the least if he decides to see where the chips fall with what we got internally and hope that Zibs,Hayes and Miller take the next step. I doubt Andersson is on opening night roster but I guess it's possible.

I think we should all settle in for a bit as I really doubt JG is going to do something now or in the next week or so. If someone thinks we are making any huge moves, I think they are going to be dissapointed.

 

[DudMan28]

What kind of center can a package built around Graves return? He seems to have gotten pushed even further down the depth chart with all of our recent signings.

Bereglazov, Pionk, Deangelo, Shattenkirk. Where/how does he fit in moving forward?

 

[DutchShamrock]

I think Radulov signing may be a catalyst for one of our moves. Hopefully he signs soon.

Also, we aren't getting Duchene. Sakic wanted Skei for Barrie, which means he's going to want him for Duchene. Hell be in Columbus before the week is over.

Or Boston apparently.

I was starting to concede that maybe we ought to take a run at Duchene but with these cap compliancy moves lately I think we can get a better solution. I'd be very happy with a Bozak/Kadri type add. Fill in the holes with some cheap signings and see just what we have with the puck movement ability on the blue line.

 

[Lion Hound]

Move Nash for 1st round+ or a good prospect
I'd overpay for Duchene if needed. Hayes+Graves+Day+(whatever we got for Nash)
mid round picks for Kovalchuk

You get the top6 center and goal scorer/game changer you need.

Kovalchuk Zibanejad Zuccs
Kreider Duchene Buchnevich
Vesey Andersson Miller
Grabner Nieves Fast

Nash for 2018 First and prospect- Yes, all day long.
Hayes, Graves, Day for Duchene - Yes, but Sakic says no.
Mid Round picks for Kovalchuk- Cant see that happening either.

 

[Gardner McKay]

Or Boston apparently.

I was starting to concede that maybe we ought to take a run at Duchene but with these cap compliancy moves lately I think we can get a better solution. I'd be very happy with a Bozak/Kadri type add. Fill in the holes with some cheap signings and see just what we have with the puck movement ability on the blue line.

It would cripple this team. Sakic is an idiot and wants a McDavid like return for Duchene.

Who turns down Hamonic + 1st + for Duchene?

 

[ManUtdTobbe]

I don't want Duchene, Sakic seems to want A LOT for him and he's definitely not worth that to us, we don't have the assets to spare.

 

[RangerBoy]

Kevin Klein? Is he having 2nd thoughts giving up $2.75M? Why would he retire to play in Europe? Maybe he doesn't like playing in NY anymore? Maybe the Rangers can trade him. At the draft,Gorton said he spoke to Klein 10 days ago. The draft was nearly 10 days ago.

 

[GAGLine]

So it's just a coincidence the D received the exact same treatment over the span of three years with different coaches ?

In prior years, who were the alternatives? It's not like we had a lot of better options last year either. The only thing I can fault the coaches for, and you can divvy up the blame between AV and Beuk however you want, is that the Staal/Holden pairing should have played less and the Smith/Skjei pairing played more.

I don't fault them for not playing Clendening. Girardi wasn't the problem and Clendening certainly wasn't the answer.

 

[Ola]

Re the older comments on Teevu Teravainen never being available, I am not so sure. You don't get a 22 y/o kid with loads of potential and then let it be known that you are listening to offers on him. Carolina wants to play a very straight forward speed game. I saw a few games with them and it just didn't seem like he fit in great. Don't think Peters liked him that much to be honest. He had some good moments for them, but...

With that said, they might definitely want to hang on to him until they can use him for a target they really like. Not saying he easily could be had. But I wouldn't rule out that he might be available.

 

[silverfish]

Still some interesting names out there. Would love if NYR explored Jagr or Jokinen. Surprised that Franson doesn't have a job yet. Iginla, Vanek, Yakupov, Radulov. Not saying the Rangers should go after these guys, of course, but interesting that they're still out there.

 

[JimmyG89]

Who says no first:

Staal for Backes?

Staal is a LHD for the Bruins and Backes slides into the 3C role for the Rangers. Backes makes 300K more over the same duration of the contract. NMC becomes a NTC in 19-20.

Only issue is the buyout is not nearly as friendly as the Staal one is for next season due to signing bonuses.