Speculation: Free Agent Frenzy Part II - Who is left?

[Ail]

Andreas Martinsen wants to be a Ranger, he's the tough guy they are looking for. Huge truck, hits hard and fights. Gorton, talk to the Blackhawks about a trade. And Zucc wouldn't mind another Norwegian in the lineup

What's up Wolfy? How's Zucc doing? Are you friends with Martinsen too?

 

[I Eat Crow]

Re: De Haan, if he signs here, I'd imagine that one of our current defensemen is on the way out. I don't really see room for him with Skjei, Shattenkirk, and Staal basically having guaranteed spots. Then you have Pionk, DeAngelo, Gilmour, O'Gara, Hajek, Smith, Lindgren, Claesson, and Kampfer vying for four spots if you include the 7th defenseman spot. Too many bodies unless someone is outgoing.

 

[Levitate]

Why for the sake of trading him?

Kevin Hayes is a much better hockey player than Namestnikov. I’d much rather sign Hayes and if you run into the situation where he can be moved do it later in the year, what is the rush to do so now?

People are caught up in the "we're rebuilding, trade everyone!" phase of things when it's clear management is not willing to burn the entire team to the ground, salt the ashes, and then expect their new shiny prospects to prosper in that barren environment. The Rangers want good vets on their team to help the process along. I think Hayes is 100% a possibility for trade at some point but without a real big offer this offseason I doubt they go into next season by trading him and only having 1 legitimate NHL center on the roster.

 

[TheTakedown]

St. Louis paid that bonus and the return that Buffalo got was underwhelming, to say the least.

You're right, not sure why I keep confusing that... Regardless, Buffalo got a 2nd to pay out a $7.5M bonus. The point remains, imagine what Edmonton has to pay in order to get someone to absorb a $35M contract over the next FIVE years...

 

[Levitate]

Re: De Haan, if he signs here, I'd imagine that one of our current defensemen is on the way out. I don't really see room for him with Skjei, Shattenkirk, and Staal basically having guaranteed spots. Then you have Pionk, DeAngelo, Gilmour, O'Gara, Hajek, Smith, Lindgren, Claesson, and Kampfer vying for four spots if you include the 7th defenseman spot. Too many bodies unless someone is outgoing.

Yeah, entirely possible as well. The offseason is young, we shouldn't treat the roster as set at this point. Also I still think several of those guys are not real legitimate NHLers (Gilmour, O'Gara, Kampfer) so I don't really care much about them making the team or not.

 

[bobbop]

I’m very disappointed.

Taking a pass at free agency was not my idea of helping along a rebuild. I had very modest expectations. Go look at the list of players I suggested the Rangers consider. Only one star (with a large hometown discount) and a bunch of role players. No big gambles or crippling expenditures.

I don’t understand not taking advantage of free agency to build organizational depth. Everyone here, including me, wants more draft choices and young prospects. The way to get those lottery tickets is to make a few more unpopular trades and they are coming. (Hello, Kevin Hayes) I’m willing to swallow that bullet but I don’t want to see the Peter Holland and Matt Beleskys of the world filling those open spots. I’ve come to terms with accepting a rebuild. What I don’t expect or want is to see the Rangers look like the Phoenix Coyotes or Buffalo Sabres.

The Rangers lack a lot of things right now. They have almost no sandpaper at all in their lineup. Not the right place to break in a bunch of rookies. They could use more veteran leadership. For better or worse, they traded away a lot of good locker room guys. Most of the veterans remaining were not the team leaders. It surely couldn’t have hurt to add some more established players to the bottom half of the lineup. They could desperately use a two way center for defensive faceoffs, penalty killing and depth, should trades happen.

A while back, the President of an NHL team told me that fans worry too much about the dollars and contract length in free agency. Part of his reasoning was that problems can always be worked out. Another part was that the NHL roster usually has 4-5 players on ELCs which make the average salary of tenured players higher than perceived average under the cap.

What irks me as much as anything is that many of the players I considered useful in the rebuild signed for fairly reasonable contracts. A few got a little crazy. But many were right in line with where they were predicted to land.

Those of you who know me know that I am usually the most optimistic guy around here. Not today. For me, Gorton and company are on the clock right now. This was an opportunity missed. I didn’t expect very much from the Rangers yesterday. Somehow, I got much less.

 

[Webster]

Brooks on the Rangers: It can be mighty ugly for a team filled almost exclusively with pretty boys, can't send lambs on the ice

Worst part is...he's right

 

[Edge]

I think they are looking for a player who will fight, and a guy who they "like"

Martin fits that.

Yet it's the same thing as Glass, albeit Martin is a better player, it does not move the needle in terms of how aggressive the rest of the team plays, it's more of a safety blanket for management so they can convince themselves they tried to improve the teams toughness and camaraderie.

Eh, I guess when push comes to shove I don't think management would view it's impact as being quite that profound.

I think they would like such a move, and feel a little more comfortable with a guy like Martin than without, but I don't think it's something that will figuratively help them sleep at night. That's why I don't think they've been going nuts on their approaches thus far.

They'd rather wait and see if something materializes at a good price.

For better or worse, most of the anxiety and disagreements on timetables and costs seem to be more of a thing outside the organization than within.

 

[Ola]

Smith can play either side. He may not bounce back, but he can fill a spot if need be. We also have O'Gara who can fill a spot on the left and Kampfer on the right. We have options if the kids aren't ready. We don't need De Haan and he certainly doesn't need us.

Nobody can play either side. Smith played a few good games last season, in the post game thread everyone agreed that wow, Smith was actually good tonight. Guess what side he played on? The left.

Everyone can play either side — sure, they will do it much worse than if they would have played on the side their stick point towards. You lose time playing the wrong side. The faster the game is, the less time you have. It get harder and harder. Every time that it pointed out someone say that X or Y actually prefers playing somewhere and that there are so many examples in the league who can play on the wrong side. Look back at those examples a few years later. It’s basically never lasts, it so often end with a complete disaster. McD, Skjei all these guys played on the wrong side in college and of course could do it in the NHL too. They weren’t even remotely close. Then we sign a Claesson type, and you can bet on that it will be claimed that he can play on the wrong side lol.

This is not a fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me situation, some never learn. We give it a go 237 times and the result is a disaster but some will not notice it. ‘Ola you are wrong, X actually played RD in [insert low level league], he can do it in the NHL too’. Yeah, on a 3rd pairing for 15 games. Long term solutions must play on the right side.

Why is nobody calling out Gorts for the complete and utter brain dead move he made when signing Smith?

I would also like to know how much the organization looked at worthless advanced stats when thinking that a pretty average B Smith was worth that monster contract?

 

[Edge]

I’m very disappointed.

Taking a pass at free agency was not my idea of helping along a rebuild. I had very modest expectations. Go look at the list of players I suggested the Rangers consider. Only one star (with a large hometown discount) and a bunch of role players. No big gambles or crippling expenditures.

I don’t understand not taking advantage of free agency to build organizational depth. Everyone here, including me, wants more draft choices and young prospects. The way to get those lottery tickets is to make a few more unpopular trades and they are coming. (Hello, Kevin Hayes) I’m willing to swallow that bullet but I don’t want to see the Peter Holland and Matt Beleskys of the world filling those open spots. I’ve come to terms with accepting a rebuild. What I don’t expect or want is to see the Rangers look like the Phoenix Coyotes or Buffalo Sabres.

The Rangers lack a lot of things right now. They have almost no sandpaper at all in their lineup. Not the right place to break in a bunch of rookies. They could use more veteran leadership. For better or worse, they traded away a lot of good locker room guys. Most of the veterans remaining were not the team leaders. It surely couldn’t have hurt to add some more established players to the bottom half of the lineup. They could desperately use a two way center for defensive faceoffs, penalty killing and depth, should trades happen.

A while back, the President of an NHL team told me that fans worry too much about the dollars and contract length in free agency. Part of his reasoning was that problems can always be worked out. Another part was that the NHL roster usually has 4-5 players on ELCs which make the average salary of tenured players higher than perceived average under the cap.

What irks me as much as anything is that many of the players I considered useful in the rebuild signed for fairly reasonable contracts. A few got a little crazy. But many were right in line with where they were predicted to land.

Those of you who know me know that I am usually the most optimistic guy around here. Not today. For me, Gorton and company are on the clock right now. This was an opportunity missed. I didn’t expect very much from the Rangers yesterday. Somehow, I got much less.

I guess I'm a little confused.

Who did you really want that Gorton and company slept on?

 

[Ola]

Keep in mind that as the cap rises, so do the salaries.

It's not a scenario in which the cap rises over the next several years and you still pay a player by the 2018 market prices.

Having said that, Toronto has time before they have to even consider those scenarios. And if they get to the point where they have to make a trade, they won't exactly be selling for pennies on the dollar.

At the very least, they're not sweating.

Yup, but the salaries always raises proportionally more for a good team than a cellar team. The good teams are destroyed by a flat cap, if the cap is going up it helps them no doubt.

 

[TheTakedown]

Re: De Haan, if he signs here, I'd imagine that one of our current defensemen is on the way out. I don't really see room for him with Skjei, Shattenkirk, and Staal basically having guaranteed spots. Then you have Pionk, DeAngelo, Gilmour, O'Gara, Hajek, Smith, Lindgren, Claesson, and Kampfer vying for four spots if you include the 7th defenseman spot. Too many bodies unless someone is outgoing.

I don't think Smith is on the way out, so that leaves either Staal (who has minimal trade value), Shattenkirk (who has zero trade value right now), Skjei (who has lots of potential right now), Pionk (too unknown), or DeAngelo (too unknown, looks ready to break out).

It's gotta be Staal or Skjei on the block if De Haan is signed

 

[GAGLine]

You're right, not sure why I keep confusing that... Regardless, Buffalo got a 2nd to pay out a $7.5M bonus. The point remains, imagine what Edmonton has to pay in order to get someone to absorb a $35M contract over the next FIVE years...

Do you honestly believe they are going to be willing to pay that much?

This is just more short term thinking, like the people clamoring to trade for EK. You and others are so focused on what we might get from Edmonton, and have built it up in your mind to be such a bonanza, that you completely ignore the long term consequences.

I'm all for taking on a bad contract or two to get some additional long term assets, but not a contract that has 5 years left on it. That completely defeats the purpose.

 

[nyr2k2]

I’m very disappointed.

Taking a pass at free agency was not my idea of helping along a rebuild. I had very modest expectations. Go look at the list of players I suggested the Rangers consider. Only one star (with a large hometown discount) and a bunch of role players. No big gambles or crippling expenditures.

I don’t understand not taking advantage of free agency to build organizational depth. Everyone here, including me, wants more draft choices and young prospects. The way to get those lottery tickets is to make a few more unpopular trades and they are coming. (Hello, Kevin Hayes) I’m willing to swallow that bullet but I don’t want to see the Peter Holland and Matt Beleskys of the world filling those open spots. I’ve come to terms with accepting a rebuild. What I don’t expect or want is to see the Rangers look like the Phoenix Coyotes or Buffalo Sabres.

The Rangers lack a lot of things right now. They have almost no sandpaper at all in their lineup. Not the right place to break in a bunch of rookies. They could use more veteran leadership. For better or worse, they traded away a lot of good locker room guys. Most of the veterans remaining were not the team leaders. It surely couldn’t have hurt to add some more established players to the bottom half of the lineup. They could desperately use a two way center for defensive faceoffs, penalty killing and depth, should trades happen.

A while back, the President of an NHL team told me that fans worry too much about the dollars and contract length in free agency. Part of his reasoning was that problems can always be worked out. Another part was that the NHL roster usually has 4-5 players on ELCs which make the average salary of tenured players higher than perceived average under the cap.

What irks me as much as anything is that many of the players I considered useful in the rebuild signed for fairly reasonable contracts. A few got a little crazy. But many were right in line with where they were predicted to land.

Those of you who know me know that I am usually the most optimistic guy around here. Not today. For me, Gorton and company are on the clock right now. This was an opportunity missed. I didn’t expect very much from the Rangers yesterday. Somehow, I got much less.

I was expecting more. I really had it in my head that they were going to try to remain competitive this year. I'm not going to argue that's the best thing to do, but it is what I thought would happen. I did think they'd really push for JVR and sign another couple depth-type players. That they didn't, it's fine, hopefully the kids are ready and it works out. I just feel like this year is gonna be a slog, and I don't know if that's really the best way to develop the youth. I think it's better to develop the kids in a semi-competitive environment. If we look like we did the last month of last season, I truly believe that's bad for all parties involved. We'll see.

 

[NoQuitInNewMexico]

Lots of ways the Rangers can get a penalty killing north-south fourth liner even if we don't have enough in the system. Trade a very low pick or our 15th best prospect for someone who's kind of logjammed the way Dale Wiese was. Waivers. Get a throwin in a big trade. Hope guys like Beleskey and Tommy Wingels aren't cooked.

No need to give 4 years to someone who was good at running around 2 years ago, and might have lost a step.

 

[Levitate]

I have always agreed with the sentiment that you need to load up on good players, but that changes for me during a rebuild. They need to see what they have with ADA and Pionk, even if either guy doesn't blow away the competition at camp. Having ADA go back to Hartford likely spells the end of him here.

Both of those guys play RD. IMO they're competing with Smith for a spot on the roster, but we'll see what happens by the time training camp rolls around.

I’m very disappointed.

Taking a pass at free agency was not my idea of helping along a rebuild. I had very modest expectations. Go look at the list of players I suggested the Rangers consider. Only one star (with a large hometown discount) and a bunch of role players. No big gambles or crippling expenditures.

I don’t understand not taking advantage of free agency to build organizational depth. Everyone here, including me, wants more draft choices and young prospects. The way to get those lottery tickets is to make a few more unpopular trades and they are coming. (Hello, Kevin Hayes) I’m willing to swallow that bullet but I don’t want to see the Peter Holland and Matt Beleskys of the world filling those open spots. I’ve come to terms with accepting a rebuild. What I don’t expect or want is to see the Rangers look like the Phoenix Coyotes or Buffalo Sabres.

The Rangers lack a lot of things right now. They have almost no sandpaper at all in their lineup. Not the right place to break in a bunch of rookies. They could use more veteran leadership. For better or worse, they traded away a lot of good locker room guys. Most of the veterans remaining were not the team leaders. It surely couldn’t have hurt to add some more established players to the bottom half of the lineup. They could desperately use a two way center for defensive faceoffs, penalty killing and depth, should trades happen.

A while back, the President of an NHL team told me that fans worry too much about the dollars and contract length in free agency. Part of his reasoning was that problems can always be worked out. Another part was that the NHL roster usually has 4-5 players on ELCs which make the average salary of tenured players higher than perceived average under the cap.

What irks me as much as anything is that many of the players I considered useful in the rebuild signed for fairly reasonable contracts. A few got a little crazy. But many were right in line with where they were predicted to land.

Those of you who know me know that I am usually the most optimistic guy around here. Not today. For me, Gorton and company are on the clock right now. This was an opportunity missed. I didn’t expect very much from the Rangers yesterday. Somehow, I got much less.

I agree with the general idea you have here and I think it's what other people are missing. A rebuild doesn't mean run a team of rookies a bunch of borderline AHLers to fill out the rest of the roster. That's a pretty shit way to rebuild. That's why I'd be happy to have De Haan if he signs here.

As for who they missed out on though...who are you thinking of in particular? Honestly I'm not terribly impressed with the free agent crop so I'm not feeling as down on the FA stuff as you are. For all the veteran leadership he might bring, I'm not really upset about Jay Beagle signing somewhere else for instance.
I'm interested inwhether the Rangers may make some trades and who they might target...that may be where they want to get soem leadership.

 

[Off Sides]

Riley Nash 2.75m x 3

Rieder 1M x 1

Were the two UFAs I would have liked to see them go after on the forward front and I don't think either of those contracts are bad for what those players are. They have some traits I like, mostly they can produce some points, they have versatility in position, they can both PK and they both have a bit of motor in the go try to do stuff category.

 

[GAGLine]

I’m very disappointed.

Taking a pass at free agency was not my idea of helping along a rebuild. I had very modest expectations. Go look at the list of players I suggested the Rangers consider. Only one star (with a large hometown discount) and a bunch of role players. No big gambles or crippling expenditures.

I don’t understand not taking advantage of free agency to build organizational depth. Everyone here, including me, wants more draft choices and young prospects. The way to get those lottery tickets is to make a few more unpopular trades and they are coming. (Hello, Kevin Hayes) I’m willing to swallow that bullet but I don’t want to see the Peter Holland and Matt Beleskys of the world filling those open spots. I’ve come to terms with accepting a rebuild. What I don’t expect or want is to see the Rangers look like the Phoenix Coyotes or Buffalo Sabres.

The Rangers lack a lot of things right now. They have almost no sandpaper at all in their lineup. Not the right place to break in a bunch of rookies. They could use more veteran leadership. For better or worse, they traded away a lot of good locker room guys. Most of the veterans remaining were not the team leaders. It surely couldn’t have hurt to add some more established players to the bottom half of the lineup. They could desperately use a two way center for defensive faceoffs, penalty killing and depth, should trades happen.

A while back, the President of an NHL team told me that fans worry too much about the dollars and contract length in free agency. Part of his reasoning was that problems can always be worked out. Another part was that the NHL roster usually has 4-5 players on ELCs which make the average salary of tenured players higher than perceived average under the cap.

What irks me as much as anything is that many of the players I considered useful in the rebuild signed for fairly reasonable contracts. A few got a little crazy. But many were right in line with where they were predicted to land.

Those of you who know me know that I am usually the most optimistic guy around here. Not today. For me, Gorton and company are on the clock right now. This was an opportunity missed. I didn’t expect very much from the Rangers yesterday. Somehow, I got much less.

Gorton took a run at several players but was outbid. I'm not sure what you expect him to do. Should we have given Roussel or Komarov 4 years @ 3 mil? Should we have given Grabner 3 x 3.35?

It's disappointing that we didn't get any of the players we were targeting, but Gorton did the smart thing by not getting into a bidding war for them and overpaying. There are other guys out there in the bargain bin. That's where we found Stralman. That's were we found Grabner. That's where we found Prospal. We may not find anyone this year who has that kind of impact, but we don't really need to. We need to find warm bodies who will play hard and insulate the kids. Anything else we get is a bonus.

 

[LaffyTaffy]

I haven't seen a single person mention that Gorton is playing 8th dimensional chess with De Haan, he is driving a bidding war to get De Haan out of the Island and on his way to Dallas. De Haan would like to stay in the metro area, but Dallas wants to out bid everyone. Rangers can try and drive the price since they have the space and all Dallas has to do is beat it and try and convince De Haan to go while Gorton slowly backs away. Think about it this way, De Haan is young and a decent Dman who wants multiple years, we aren't handing out large contracts to UFAs this year so why would we start now especially when we will have Hajek battling for an LD spot this summer along with Lindgren, its not like we need a good defense when we are not going for the cup. Unless we have a deal in place to move Staal i dont think we are actually trying to sign De Haan.

 

[Lion Hound]

Brooks on the Rangers: It can be mighty ugly for a team filled almost exclusively with pretty boys, can't send lambs on the ice

Worst part is...he's right

Rise and rise again until Lambs become Lions!

I agree here. For a club that has dismantled and preached, character and whatnot. They haven't done so much to add anyone. Maybe they just didn't get their guys (Reaves). I wouldn't have paid the number Vegas did though. But, they have all the chips they need to swing some deals.

 

[LaffyTaffy]

In terms of Matt Martin, i like the guy as a bully but I am not paying assets for him. I would rather eat a worse contract (Lucic) and get paid for it.

 

[I Eat Crow]

I’m very disappointed.

Taking a pass at free agency was not my idea of helping along a rebuild. I had very modest expectations. Go look at the list of players I suggested the Rangers consider. Only one star (with a large hometown discount) and a bunch of role players. No big gambles or crippling expenditures.

I don’t understand not taking advantage of free agency to build organizational depth. Everyone here, including me, wants more draft choices and young prospects. The way to get those lottery tickets is to make a few more unpopular trades and they are coming. (Hello, Kevin Hayes) I’m willing to swallow that bullet but I don’t want to see the Peter Holland and Matt Beleskys of the world filling those open spots. I’ve come to terms with accepting a rebuild. What I don’t expect or want is to see the Rangers look like the Phoenix Coyotes or Buffalo Sabres.

The Rangers lack a lot of things right now. They have almost no sandpaper at all in their lineup. Not the right place to break in a bunch of rookies. They could use more veteran leadership. For better or worse, they traded away a lot of good locker room guys. Most of the veterans remaining were not the team leaders. It surely couldn’t have hurt to add some more established players to the bottom half of the lineup. They could desperately use a two way center for defensive faceoffs, penalty killing and depth, should trades happen.

A while back, the President of an NHL team told me that fans worry too much about the dollars and contract length in free agency. Part of his reasoning was that problems can always be worked out. Another part was that the NHL roster usually has 4-5 players on ELCs which make the average salary of tenured players higher than perceived average under the cap.

What irks me as much as anything is that many of the players I considered useful in the rebuild signed for fairly reasonable contracts. A few got a little crazy. But many were right in line with where they were predicted to land.

Those of you who know me know that I am usually the most optimistic guy around here. Not today. For me, Gorton and company are on the clock right now. This was an opportunity missed. I didn’t expect very much from the Rangers yesterday. Somehow, I got much less.

I understand your frustration. If you look at who signed where and for what term and dollars, the end results were probably were too much for Gorton and co. to consider. Look at what Roussel and Beagle got from Vancouver. Four year deals. Even Komarov got a four year deal. Gorton didn't want commitments greater than two, maybe three years for the right player. The strategy is going to be bargain bin hunting for the second or even third tier guys on one or two year deals.

I would imagine that a trade or two is coming as well.

 

[TheTakedown]

Do you honestly believe they are going to be willing to pay that much?

This is just more short term thinking, like the people clamoring to trade for EK. You and others are so focused on what we might get from Edmonton, and have built it up in your mind to be such a bonanza, that you completely ignore the long term consequences.

I'm all for taking on a bad contract or two to get some additional long term assets, but not a contract that has 5 years left on it. That completely defeats the purpose.

No, I am in total agreement with you. In order for this to be worth it for the trading for team (Rangers), the Trading team (Edmonton) would have to pay such an immense package that it would be cost prohibitive for the trading team (Edmonton) to go thru with that transaction.

If Edmonton were to do this, the Rangers would have to be getting the following:

2019 1st + 2020 2nd + Jesse Puljujärvi + Kailer Yamamoto + Lucic + Lucic's modified NTC in the final years is not honored
OR
2019 1st + Jesse Puljujärvi + Kailer Yamamoto + Lucic @ 50% retained + Lucic's modified NTC in the final years is not honored

The 2nd deal I'd absolutely do regardless of term, but again, that's the issue with this Lucic contract--if that's too much for Edmonton to pay, then they have to go f*** off.

I'd rather Bobby Ryan and some assets from Ottawa

 

[LaffyTaffyNYR]

I could careless if we suck this season or how bad we look as long as some of the kids show progression, especially if somehow we're bad enoughwhere we get lucky and have a good shot at Jack Hughes.

I also dont mind keeping all the cap space on the off chance that guys like EK, Panarin or even Seguin end up hitting FA next season.

 

[Fireonk]

I guess I just don't see the huge concern about not signing any free agents (yet) even if I think they would benefit from one more vet on the 4th line. At the moment we have:
Kreider/Zib/Buch
Spooner/Hayes/Zucc
Namestikov/Chytil or Andersson/Fast
Nieves, Beleskey, Holland, Lettieri, Vesey

It really isn't an urgent need to get a non-difference maker in here. That lineup only has 1 or 2 rookies so it isn't like we are just throwing kids to the wolves.

By not signing a plug-in we also leave room to take on a bad contract to plug-in instead, adding another asset.

With so many things still up in the air (Hayes, Spooner, Vesey, plenty of cap space) it just seems a bit silly to get so frustrated by inaction (at least until everything settles down.)