Speculation: Free Agent Frenzy Part II - Who is left?

[a tribe cq]

Some talk about Calvin De Haan and the Rangers.

Made some posts about snagging him in February....

He just turned 27 and I think would be a great piece moving forward. Could be a solid defensemen once a bunch of our prospects are ready to compete in 3-4 years and can at this juncture eat a bunch of minutes as a solid first pairing defender. Once we start moving past the rebuild he can move down in the lineup and be super productive.

 

[NYR Viper]

Also, as I have mentioned, for me, it's easier to justify playing Lucic on the 2nd line for now, 3rd line in the future than trying to 'hide' Staal on the 3rd pairing

 

[Edge]

I said this elsewhere, but the tip of the spear in that regard seems to be Andersson. He looks like he’s going to make it very uncomfortable on his teammates if they accept any degree of losing. He’s already looked at as the leader amongst his fellow prospects. It’s why I’m really starting to come around on him.

We had this conversation after the loss in game 7 against TB. This is exactly what you talked about. Seems that Gorton and company agreed with you.

And there were murmurs before that, but it was a somewhat difficult conversation to have. Let's be honest, they were a pretty likable group and the Rangers were one game away from back-to-back appearances in the Stanley Cup Finals.

But that was also the turning point where certain things became a little harder to ignore and the success wasn't there to mask things. Yes, you'll always have people who go to extremes and want to crucify players for every fart and fiddle, and you'll always have apologists who will find a reason for everything, but I think a good chunk of the fanbase started to see it a bit more.

I think Andersson is exactly the type of personality who will be very vocal out there. I also think the Rangers are looking at guys who are potential lieutenants to compliment that approach --- be it Howden, Miller, Lindgren, etc.

I also think the Rangers are expecting that from vets like Kreider and possibly a reawakened Smith.

That's not to say that everyone is going to be an in-your-face type, you need a a balance. But the Rangers are definitely looking to reshape their personality in addition to reshape their roster --- that much is obvious.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Also, as I have mentioned, for me, it's easier to justify playing Lucic on the 2nd line for now, 3rd line in the future than trying to 'hide' Staal on the 3rd pairing

Sure, but Staal can’t be moved.

He has a NMC and he sucks.

It’s really hard to justify having both of them.

 

[Edge]

That is fine and all, but do they really expect Matt Martin to light the teams fire so to speak?

Why not players who have a motor, let them go out there skate around causing some havoc within a defined system, basically much of what Vegas did last year?

What they seem to be looking for is a slightly more talented McLeod which will be 3 or 4 times as expensive (in some form, contract or trade assets) without the 3 or 4 times the talent level.

I think they'd take a guy who can play and fight, but I don't think it's essential.

I think it's more of a mindset.

A guy like Lias Andersson might drop the gloves once a year, maybe once every few years. No one will ever mistake him for an enforcer --- but he won't back down.

Ryan Lindgren, doesn't back down.

Brett Howden, doesn't back down. And fighting certainly isn't his strong point.

The difference between Filip Chytil pre-draft and post-draft? Assertion. He learned to assert himself and that backed opponents up.

I think when we talk about aggression, it's not about fighting majors. It's a mindset.

Yes, it can involve throwing checks and the occasional dropping of gloves, but it's really about asserting ones game on the ice, not being intimidated and not being easily knocked off your game.

I think the Rangers are trying to avoid situations where it's 5 minutes into the first period and you can tell the team is in "chill" mode.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

So I found out that Tennessee also has no state income tax. Why doesn't anyone complain about the Predators' advantage?

 

[NYR Viper]

 

[Edge]

Torts was my guy because he's that alpha.oersonality. u play like crap he'll call u out on it. But he always gave u a 2nd chance.

The challenge is that you also have to know when to back off. You can't be like that all the time or else people tune you out.

Torts challenge is that he always comes with a shelf life. He's a highly perishable good.

In a nutshell, if it doesn't get the desired results by his third full season with a team, it's going to fall apart from that point forward. Which is true for most coaches in the NHL, but most of them usually don't have a full-on revolt on their hands when they're leaving.

 

[Matt Rentfree]

So I found out that Tennessee also has no state income tax. Why doesn't anyone complain about the Predators' advantage?

That's one of the reasons I left NYC for Nashville. No one seems to complain about Dallas either - Texas also has no state income tax.

 

[E-Train]

So I found out that Tennessee also has no state income tax. Why doesn't anyone complain about the Predators' advantage?

I've thought the same thing. Vegas and the Seattle team have it as well.

 

[GAGLine]

I really don't think Lucic is as cancerous of a contract as some are making i out to be. He is a bad contract, that I agree with

He is 30 years old.

His average ppg going all the way back to his rookie season puts him at ~49 points per 82 games That includes his rookie year and this past season where he had a disappointing season.

If you ignore his 27 points in 77 game rookie season only, he averages 51 points per 82 games.

It would seem like this past year was the outlier, not the rule.

How cancerous do you think that contract will be 3 years from now? You can call last year an outlier, or more likely, it's just the beginning of the end.

All the options that Inferno suggested are bad ones. There is no guarantee that there will be compliance buyouts and all the other options leave us with significant cap costs for a player who either isn't here any more or is taking up space in the lineup.

The only reason people want to trade for him is because they think we are going to get a lot from Edmonton for taking him. 3 years from now, it will probably be us paying some other team to take him off our hands.

5 years is just too long. JVR just got 7 mil per for 5 years and everyone here thought that was crazy, yet we are going to take on Lucic at 6 mil per for 5 years? Short term it wouldn't be a problem, but long term, we'd be handcuffing ourselves.

 

[Off Sides]

I think they'd take a guy who can play and fight, but I don't think it's essential.

I think it's more of a mindset.

A guy like Lias Andersson might drop the gloves once a year, maybe once every few years. No one will ever mistake him for an enforcer --- but he won't back down.

Ryan Lindgren, doesn't back down.

Brett Howden, doesn't back down. And fighting certainly isn't his strong point.

The difference between Filip Chytil pre-draft and post-draft? Assertion. He learned to assert himself and that backed opponents up.

I think when we talk about aggression, it's not about fighting majors. It's a mindset.

Yes, it can involve throwing checks and the occasional dropping of gloves, but it's really about asserting ones game on the ice, not being intimidated and not being easily knocked off your game.

I think the Rangers are trying to avoid situations where it's 5 minutes into the first period and you can tell the team is in "chill" mode.

So basically they want Martin for the Glass effect? Which lasts about two games before the team is right back to chill mode?

I think this chill mindset was more on AV and "the big easy" Nash more so than it is on the other players.

Why not look for motor instead? Those players who exhibit that are usually aggressive, and they actually can disrupt the other team while also providing some level of skill.

If they want someone who will fight, they looked into Reeves, it would be cheaper just to give McLeod a cheap one year deal.

 

[TheTakedown]

Rangers and Leafs talking a Martin trade btw. Most likely Martin+3rd/4th for conditional 7th or something like that. Can also see Bracco/Korshkov involved

o0o0o0o0. Kinda exciting!

 

[Edge]

Ppl act like there's no options.

If he waives his nmc to come here u can..

Trade him with salary retained
Buy him out
Compliance buy him out
Keep him as a 3rd liner with snarl
Healthy scratch him.

Benefits of having a metric ton of cap space and few long term commitments. If the price is right I'd gladly take on lucic. I still think he can be a productive player and I think Edmonton would pay a premium to get him outta there.

Perhaps, but this team is already potentially carrying dead weight with Girardi's buyout, Staal's contract, and Smith's contract. Four or five years from now puts us pretty well into some potential careers of guy who are still prospects at this point.

I think there are a few broad concerns with what you're proposing.

For starters, Lucic is a player who looks like he has the potential to quickly slide right out of the league. His biggest selling point is an area of the game that for better or worse, is being de-emphasized. So there's not a long list of guys for him to ply his craft against, if he continues that slide. As such, I don't think it's a given that he sticks as a third liner with snarl.

Beyond that, if that indeed is the case, I'm not sure trading him salary retained is as easy of an option as we want to believe.

So that leaves us with the "hope" that maybe he's a compliance buyout? A healthy scratch? Another buyout we have to carry?

If those things are even reasonable possibilities before we have a player, that's enough to give me a very long pause.

I'm all for stockpiling assets. I just think there are better ways we can do that. We're not hard up for prospects or picks and we have the potential to acquire more with some of the assets we already have.

If I'm taking on Lucic for 5 years, there better be an unbelievable return of assets accompanying him.

And if that's the case, it instantly raises two questions:

1. Why isn't Edmonton buying into the scenario we're tossing around here?

2. Just how concerned are they about the next five years that they would send us a treasure trove to take him?

Either way, those would be some serious red flags.

 

[Brooklyn Rangers Fan]

Jeez, Dater...

 

[FJB]

As an NHL player? Lots of skill and a good shot, but I think his problem was just reading the plays. I don't think his hockey IQ is the worst I've ever seen, but it's where most of the fault lies. He really should've played in the minors before making the jump. Acclimating to the pro-level could've had him turn out markedly different. I think they brought him to the NHL too quickly, and while his skills were there at the pro level, his play reads weren't. I think you'll just see him as a bottom-6 player.

Ah ok, makes sense. I guess one of Edmonton's 700 recent lottery picks didn't work out lol

 

[Trxjw]

The Rangers have Skjei, Staal, Shattenkirk, Pionk, ADA, Smith, Gilmour, Claesson, and O'Gara as guys who could all fight for spots in camp. Where the heck would de Haan fit in? Seems like Lawson is full of it once again.

 

[Edge]

So basically they want Martin for the Glass effect? Which lasts about two games before the team is right back to chill mode?

I think this chill mindset was more on AV and "the big easy" Nash more so than it is on the other players.

Why not look for motor instead? Those players who exhibit that are usually aggressive, and they actually can disrupt the other team while also providing some level of skill.

If they want someone who will fight, they looked into Reeves, it would be cheaper just to give McLeod a cheap one year deal.

I'm not really talking about Martin or McLeod, or anyone like that. They're not on my radar personally.

I'm speaking more to the broader mindset.

 

[silverfish]

The Rangers have Skjei, Staal, Shattenkirk, Pionk, ADA, Smith, Gilmour, Claesson, and O'Gara as guys who could all fight for spots in camp. Where the heck would de Haan fit in? Seems like Lawson is full of it once again.

He'd immediately be arguably one of our best three d-men on the team & best 1LD option but if we are rebuilding then why?

Lots of mixed wants/needs on HF these days. Hard to keep up.

 

[TheTakedown]

I guess this whole Lucic thang ain't happening. @BBKers - was I even somewhat close?

Same, I'm really curious what the deal was. I have to assume it was a Bobby Ryan deal?

If Staal can hang on as a third pairing defenseman, I'll live with it.

The contract isn't an issue right now, we need the veteran presence, and I'm not expecting him to turn water into wine for us.

You know of anything regarding the Rangers plans with Staal and Smith?

 

[TheTakedown]

How did the Rangers end up with so many low character players?

I mean they must be or else this pursuit of character players would not be deemed as important.

Or perhaps they have plenty of character, and are really looking for grit.

In which case that is a different story, bring back McLeod on a 1 year 1M deal as once that becomes less of a priority, like it does every season, they can at least scratch him and/or bury his contract.

Simple answer. Alain Vigneault. AV preferred guys that would, quite literally, shut up and play. No oomph, no excitement, vanilla style play

 

[Edge]

Same, I'm really curious what the deal was. I have to assume it was a Bobby Ryan deal?


You know of anything regarding the Rangers plans with Staal and Smith?

I'd expect both of them to be on the team this season.

 

[Off Sides]

I'm not really talking about Martin or McLeod, or anyone like that. They're not on my radar personally.

I'm speaking more to the broader mindset.

Fair enough, you quoted me talking about Martin and McLeod.

If the Rangers think they are going to change the rosters mindset with those types of players, I'll believe management has the wrong mindset.

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

The Rangers have Skjei, Staal, Shattenkirk, Pionk, ADA, Smith, Gilmour, Claesson, and O'Gara as guys who could all fight for spots in camp. Where the heck would de Haan fit in? Seems like Lawson is full of it once again.

de Haan is better than all of those guys except Shatty and Skjei, though.

 

[TheTakedown]

I want no part of Lucic unless we get an absolute boatload with him. His contract is long and awful.

Martin's contract isn't terrible, and he would likely be somewhat useful, so I wouldn't mind if we picked him up.

St. Louis just paid a 2nd rounder and a middle 6 player in order to have buffalo pay out a $7.5M BONUS... Lucic's contract issues are not about the real $--it is about the massive term that it carries. Edmonton would have to trade a 2019 1st, One of PoolParty/Yamamoto, and another roster player, AND take back a very average-to-below-average contract from the trading team.

It's so cost prohibitive for them to move him that they will probably have to live with playing him in a reduced role OR they have to retain 50% salary (a buyout nets them only $2M in cap space savings, and those $2M savings years' alternate for the 1st 4 years of the buyout)