Speculation: Free Agent Frenzy Part II - Who is left?

[Brooklyn Rangers Fan]

Perhaps, but this team is already potentially carrying dead weight with Girardi's buyout, Staal's contract, and Smith's contract. Four or five years from now puts us pretty well into some potential careers of guy who are still prospects at this point.

I think there are a few broad concerns with what you're proposing.

For starters, Lucic is a player who looks like he has the potential to quickly slide right out of the league. His biggest selling point is an area of the game that for better or worse, is being de-emphasized. So there's not a long list of guys for him to ply his craft against, if he continues that slide. As such, I don't think it's a given that he sticks as a third liner with snarl.

Beyond that, if that indeed is the case, I'm not sure trading him salary retained is as easy of an option as we want to believe.

So that leaves us with the "hope" that maybe he's a compliance buyout? A healthy scratch? Another buyout we have to carry?

If those things are even reasonable possibilities before we have a player, that's enough to give me a very long pause.

I'm all for stockpiling assets. I just think there are better ways we can do that. We're not hard up for prospects or picks and we have the potential to acquire more with some of the assets we already have.

If I'm taking on Lucic for 5 years, there better be an unbelievable return of assets accompanying him.

And if that's the case, it instantly raises two questions:

1. Why isn't Edmonton buying into the scenario we're tossing around here?

2. Just how concerned are they about the next five years that they would send us a treasure trove to take him?

Either way, those would be some serious red flags.

I come out in the middle. I'm amenable to taking him on for a good price – IF Edmonton retains. Taking on the full contract? As I believe Brooks mentioned in an article leading up to the draft "only if Draisaitl comes with him".

 

[rvdnsx1]

Toronto won’t be able to sign Matthews, Marner and Nylander with the J.T. signing. How about Brady Skjei for William Nylander?

 

[Edge]

Fair enough, you quoted me talking about Martin and McLeod.

If the Rangers think they are going to change the rosters mindset with those types of players, I'll believe management has the wrong mindset.

I don't think we're actually in disagreement.

While I think the Rangers would take a guy who can fight and play a regular shift, I think it's more about the mindset for the roster (the Andersson's, the Howden's, the Lindgren's, etc.)

In the case of Reaves, Martin, etc. I think they're looking for guys who can agitate and check. The fighting is a byproduct of those things, but not necessarily the driving force. I also don't the Rangers are looking to add those elements at any cost.

I believe they want some physicality to their roster and wouldn't mind have a deterrent on the ice, especially with younger forwards. But I don't think they're looking at those guys to change the mindset all by themselves.

 

[GAGLine]

St. Louis just payed a 2nd rounder and a middle 6 player in order to have buffalo pay out a $7.5M BONUS... Lucic's contract issues are not about the real $--it is about the massive term that it carries. Edmonton would have to trade a 2019 1st, One of PoolParty/Yamamoto, and another roster player, AND take back a very average-to-below-average contract from the trading team.

It's so cost prohibitive for them to move him that they will probably have to live with playing him in a reduced role OR they have to retain 50% salary (a buyout nets them only $2M in cap space savings, and those $2M savings years' alternate for the 1st 4 years of the buyout)

St. Louis paid that bonus and the return that Buffalo got was underwhelming, to say the least.

 

[Trxjw]

He'd immediately be arguably one of our best three d-men on the team & best 1LD option but if we are rebuilding then why?

Lots of mixed wants/needs on HF these days. Hard to keep up.

I agree that he's a very good player. It's not the talent, it's the fit. If they're expecting Smith to win back a spot and have multiple kids vying for the remaining openings, why create a blocker? More importantly, what's the incentive for de Haan to join a rebuilding team?

 

[eco's bones]

I think they'd take a guy who can play and fight, but I don't think it's essential.

I think it's more of a mindset.

A guy like Lias Andersson might drop the gloves once a year, maybe once every few years. No one will ever mistake him for an enforcer --- but he won't back down.

Ryan Lindgren, doesn't back down.

Brett Howden, doesn't back down. And fighting certainly isn't his strong point.

The difference between Filip Chytil pre-draft and post-draft? Assertion. He learned to assert himself and that backed opponents up.

I think when we talk about aggression, it's not about fighting majors. It's a mindset.

Yes, it can involve throwing checks and the occasional dropping of gloves, but it's really about asserting ones game on the ice, not being intimidated and not being easily knocked off your game.

I think the Rangers are trying to avoid situations where it's 5 minutes into the first period and you can tell the team is in "chill" mode.

The Rangers were a very soft team last year. Almost at no time did we have a sustained hard forecheck going. Jesper Fast led the team in hits with 130. Only three others made it over the 100 mark. We weren't making physical contact and it wasn't because we were controlling the puck more. It's because we weren't hard to play against. It was a lack of real engagement. I've seen Claesson already written up as another soft player but in 64 games he had 158 hits getting third pairing minutes---just over 15 minutes a night. He would have easily led our team. The coaching staff and the leadership bear most of the responsibility for that. Maybe Gorton could have brought in other players that could have rectified that--McLeod certainly didn't but how AV would have used them I don't know. It's like he'd lost the thread and the debacle in the Nashville game when Staal and Vesey were both concussed pretty much in the space of a minute was the last straw for me. No real response. At that point I thought we were done.

Andersson will grind. He will stick his nose in and go to the dirty areas. I don't expect to see him fighting really at all but I don't expect to see him backing off either. Lindgren is another guy. He likes to and looks to hit. He will flatten players who won't pay attention. I don't expect a lot of fights out of him either though I do expect some because opponents will be looking for retribution against him now and again. To me those two guys are real parts of the solution for this. Throughout the roster--Rangers players, Hartford players, our prospects the Rangers really don't have a guy who is a for real guy when it comes to dropping the gloves. Of all their players when it does come to dropping them the guy that I've seen that seems the most comfortable--the best at it in fact is Tony DeAngelo.

 

[Levitate]

He'd immediately be arguably one of our best three d-men on the team & best 1LD option but if we are rebuilding then why?

Lots of mixed wants/needs on HF these days. Hard to keep up.

I still think "rebuilding" doesn't mean "be really shitty and play your propects over their heads" which is why you need veterans and some good signings to help things along. The Rangers LD depth at the NHL level is pretty thin..Skjei and Staal are the only NHLers. One of those guys needs a good bounce back year and the other is an aging 3rd pairing guy at best. I'd be surprised if any of the other LD in the Rangers system are ready to play this year anyways.

De Haan would provide some good stability in the lineup, a good partner for a RD, etc.

 

[Trxjw]

de Haan is better than all of those guys except Shatty and Skjei, though.

I certainly agree, but like I said to fish, its the fit that makes no sense. Why load up on guys to fight for spots in a rebuild and then bring in a guy who trumps most of them?

 

[Brooklyn Rangers Fan]

 

[RangerBoy]

Kevin Hayes. Trade him.

 

[silverfish]

I agree that he's a very good player. It's not the talent, it's the fit. If they're expecting Smith to win back a spot and have multiple kids vying for the remaining openings, why create a blocker? More importantly, what's the incentive for de Haan to join a rebuilding team?

I'm as perplexed as you are.

 

[Levitate]

I agree that he's a very good player. It's not the talent, it's the fit. If they're expecting Smith to win back a spot and have multiple kids vying for the remaining openings, why create a blocker? More importantly, what's the incentive for de Haan to join a rebuilding team?

Smith primarily plays RD. Argue all you want about a left handed guy playing RD but that's where he has played a lot of hockey. The only guys really in the running for a LD spot IMO are Gilmour and O'Gara, neither of which are particularly good. If a kid is good enough to play, they'll get into the lineup one way or another. There's always injuries, etc.

As for why De Haan would want to come here, who knows, but if he's interested as reported then he's interested

 

[LiveLongandProspal]

Beleskey can be that both-6 energy guy

 

[silverfish]

Kevin Hayes. Trade him.

Bozak got 53/5 and Stastny got 3/6.35 so why is Hayes looking at 5/6?

You see what ROR got and want to trade Hayes? God bless.

 

[Trxjw]

I still think "rebuilding" doesn't mean "be really ****ty and play your propects over their heads" which is why you need veterans and some good signings to help things along. The Rangers LD depth at the NHL level is pretty thin..Skjei and Staal are the only NHLers. One of those guys needs a good bounce back year and the other is an aging 3rd pairing guy at best. I'd be surprised if any of the other LD in the Rangers system are ready to play this year anyways.

De Haan would provide some good stability in the lineup, a good partner for a RD, etc.

They have Smith, Claesson, O'Gara, and Gilmour all fighting for that last LHD spot. Makes no sense to me. Add de Haan and none of those guys play over Staal. Then what? Block spots in Hartford?

 

[Edge]

The Rangers were a very soft team last year. Almost at no time did we have a sustained hard forecheck going. Jesper Fast led the team in hits with 130. Only three others made it over the 100 mark. We weren't making physical contact and it wasn't because we were controlling the puck more. It's because we weren't hard to play against. It was a lack of real engagement. I've seen Claesson already written up as another soft player but in 64 games he had 158 hits getting third pairing minutes---just over 15 minutes a night. He would have easily led our team. The coaching staff and the leadership bear most of the responsibility for that. Maybe Gorton could have brought in other players that could have rectified that--McLeod certainly didn't but how AV would have used them I don't know. It's like he'd lost the thread and the debacle in the Nashville game when Staal and Vesey were both concussed pretty much in the space of a minute was the last straw for me. No real response. At that point I thought we were done.

Andersson will grind. He will stick his nose in and go to the dirty areas. I don't expect to see him fighting really at all but I don't expect to see him backing off either. Lindgren is another guy. He likes to and looks to hit. He will flatten players who won't pay attention. I don't expect a lot of fights out of him either though I do expect some because opponents will be looking for retribution against him now and again. To me those two guys are real parts of the solution for this. Throughout the roster--Rangers players, Hartford players, our prospects the Rangers really don't have a guy who is a for real guy when it comes to dropping the gloves. Of all their players when it does come to dropping them the guy that I've seen that seems the most comfortable--the best at it in fact is Tony DeAngelo.

Which why I think they're looking up amplify that a bit. But they want a guy who can play a regular shift for them.

Whether they can find one at a reasonable cost is another matter.

 

[GAGLine]

I still think "rebuilding" doesn't mean "be really ****ty and play your propects over their heads" which is why you need veterans and some good signings to help things along. The Rangers LD depth at the NHL level is pretty thin..Skjei and Staal are the only NHLers. One of those guys needs a good bounce back year and the other is an aging 3rd pairing guy at best. I'd be surprised if any of the other LD in the Rangers system are ready to play this year anyways.

De Haan would provide some good stability in the lineup, a good partner for a RD, etc.

Smith can play either side. He may not bounce back, but he can fill a spot if need be. We also have O'Gara who can fill a spot on the left and Kampfer on the right. We have options if the kids aren't ready. We don't need De Haan and he certainly doesn't need us.

 

[Levitate]

They have Smith, Claesson, O'Gara, and Gilmour all fighting for that last LHD spot. Makes no sense to me. Add de Haan and none of those guys play over Staal. Then what? Block spots in Hartford?

One of those guys plays RD and the other 3 are borderline NHLers

We also go through this stuff every year. You need more than just the exact amount of good NHL players. You need guys who can step in for injured players, for guys who are struggling, trades happen, etc. Hell for all we know Gorton has some deal in the works to move Staal or Skjei or something. I am super not worried about signing a guy like De Haan. He's a good player. If we were going to have this conversation then it should be about signing a guy like Claesson who is far more likely to be a mediocre NHLer blocking prospects in one way or another.

e: I think the disconnect here is that a lot of people just want this team to really suck next season, and I think that it's obvious that management does not agree with that tactic. They're trying to make it a young team with a lot of new prospects and players but keep some core good players to help those young guys come into the NHL, learn how to be successful there and not just turn into another Oilers or Sabres team.

The Rangers would sign De Haan because they want to be a better team. That's it.

 

[Ola]

Toronto won’t be able to sign Matthews, Marner and Nylander with the J.T. signing. How about Brady Skjei for William Nylander?

Are you sure? We peaked at the worst time with a flat cap. The cap is surely sky rocketing the coming seasons. 4-5m at a minimum more per season.

I think they pretty easily will be able to keep everyone. If you are penny pinching these days you are making a big mistake.

 

[I Eat Crow]

Bozak got 5/5 and Stastny got 3/6.35 so why is Hayes looking at 5/6?

You see what ROR got and want to trade Hayes? God bless.

I agree that Buffalo got a weak package back for ROR, but you have to think that ROR requesting a trade diminished his value a bit, no?

ROR and Hayes are two completely different situations.

 

[TheGuarantee]

Kevin Hayes. Trade him.

Why for the sake of trading him?

Kevin Hayes is a much better hockey player than Namestnikov. I’d much rather sign Hayes and if you run into the situation where he can be moved do it later in the year, what is the rush to do so now?

 

[Edge]

Are you sure? We peaked at the worst time with a flat cap. The cap is surely sky rocketing the coming seasons. 4-5m at a minimum more per season.

I think they pretty easily will be able to keep everyone. If you are penny pinching these days you are making a big mistake.

Keep in mind that as the cap rises, so do the salaries.

It's not a scenario in which the cap rises over the next several years and you still pay a player by the 2018 market prices.

Having said that, Toronto has time before they have to even consider those scenarios. And if they get to the point where they have to make a trade, they won't exactly be selling for pennies on the dollar.

At the very least, they're not sweating.

 

[TheGuarantee]

I agree that Buffalo got a weak package back for ROR, but you have to think that ROR requesting a trade diminished his value a bit, no?

ROR and Hayes are two completely different situations.

And ROR is that much of a better hockey player as well.

 

[Trxjw]

One of those guys plays RD and the other 3 are borderline NHLers

We also go through this stuff every year. You need more than just the exact amount of good NHL players. You need guys who can step in for injured players, for guys who are struggling, trades happen, etc. Hell for all we know Gorton has some deal in the works to move Staal or Skjei or something. I am super not worried about signing a guy like De Haan. He's a good player. If we were going to have this conversation then it should be about signing a guy like Claesson who is far more likely to be a mediocre NHLer blocking prospects in one way or another.

I have always agreed with the sentiment that you need to load up on good players, but that changes for me during a rebuild. They need to see what they have with ADA and Pionk, even if either guy doesn't blow away the competition at camp. Having ADA go back to Hartford likely spells the end of him here.

 

[Off Sides]

I don't think we're actually in disagreement.

While I think the Rangers would take a guy who can fight and play a regular shift, I think it's more about the mindset for the roster (the Andersson's, the Howden's, the Lindgren's, etc.)

In the case of Reaves, Martin, etc. I think they're looking for guys who can agitate and check. The fighting is a byproduct of those things, but not necessarily the driving force. I also don't the Rangers are looking to add those elements at any cost.

I believe they want some physicality to their roster and wouldn't mind have a deterrent on the ice, especially with younger forwards. But I don't think they're looking at those guys to change the mindset all by themselves.

I think they are looking for a player who will fight, and a guy who they "like"

Martin fits that.

Yet it's the same thing as Glass, albeit Martin is a better player, it does not move the needle in terms of how aggressive the rest of the team plays, it's more of a safety blanket for management so they can convince themselves they tried to improve the teams toughness and camaraderie.