GDT: Free Agent Frenzy 2022

[WTFMAN99]

Depending on how we look going into the playoffs, a 1st for 50% retained Tanev is good value. Maybe a small plus since he's got another year.

His health has mostly held up in Calgary.

 

[MAB1]

Mackinnon is their best player and top 5 in the world, hardly comparable to Nylander. They did trade Duchene, probably a better comparison.
Bruins should have made a better trade with Seguin. Some random team not making a good deal shouldn't be the reason for any team not to make a move.

I really don't care what other teams do, just the Leafs. If moving Nylander helps them finally advance in the playoffs then it should be explored.

1. Mackinnon took a while to reach that level. How do you think the Avs got Makar? And the Avs had playoff struggles too up until this past season.
2. The point was he was their best contract and your rationale was that would mean getting the best return.
3. The Bruins should've never traded a #1 C that was in his early 20's, there's no defence for that trade, it was just bad.
4. Just stop lmao, you don't care about improving the team above all else, if it was Marner on the block you'd be in this thread blue in the face saying they shouldn't. Nylander has seemed expendable to you so you're here now.

 

[ACC1224]

1. Mackinnon took a while to reach that level. How do you think the Avs got Makar? And the Avs had playoff struggles too up until this past season.
2. The point was he was their best contract and your rationale was that would mean getting the best return.
3. The Bruins should've never traded a #1 C that was in his early 20's, there's no defence for that trade, it was just bad.
4. Just stop lmao, you don't care about improving the team above all else, if it was Marner on the block you'd be in this thread blue in the face saying they shouldn't. Nylander has seemed expendable to you so you're here now.

Ok

 

[Tufted Titmouse]

Depending on how we look going into the playoffs, a 1st for 50% retained Tanev is good value. Maybe a small plus since he's got another year.

His health has mostly held up in Calgary.

Hell yes. Tanev would be an excellent addition to this team.

 

[Dekes For Days]

He and Dubas will say the same thing again; that he signed a shorter term deal to bring the cost down

Except unlike his last deal, a shorter term on his UFA contract would bring the cost up, not down...

 

[Legion34]

A shorter term on his UFA contract would bring the cost up...

Now? Not necessarily. The cap is “supposed to”
Go up the year after he is done. This is not counting the fact that we are in a recession and inflation will probably hit 10%

Chicago/Philly/Montreal are not going to be competitive. So will the fans show up?

If I am Matthews. I am signing a 3 year deal. That way you can

1.) break the leaf goal record
2.) ride out the cap and sign again when the cap jumps. Whether that’s Toronto or somewhere else.


Unless he is not sure about the wrist/health.

He could also just sign here for 14-15% of whatever the projected cap is going to be a year later? 95 million? And we just pay and wait for it to jump.

 

[Trapper]

He's a good player. Why are we looking to move him?

1. So you don’t have to lose him for nothing.
2. So you don’t pay him 9 million on his next contract
3. So you change a 6 time failing core dynamic
4. So you can get a different core member in here and perhaps locked up to current Nylander salary for 6 years thereby lowering costs
5. By changing half the cap on 4 forwards to an upgraded D (Muzzin/Gio aren’t getting younger) for better balance

 

[Dekes For Days]

Now? Not necessarily.

Yes, that's how it works at any time. A 5-year UFA deal would cost more than an 8 year UFA deal.

 

[Punch Drunk Loov]

Dubas announce the Kerfoot trade today or else

 

[Legion34]

Yes, that's how it works at any time. A 5-year UFA deal would cost more than an 8 year UFA deal.

Not if the cap is supposed to go up by 10-15 million in 3 years.

Locking in at 8 years based on a 84 million cap is pretty silly.

It makes more sense to time the jump. Matthews can only sign for 20% of the cap max.

 

[Americanadian]

This is where the danger of trusting GAR literally rears its head.

According to GAR, Niederreiter was the best forward on the Canes, and DeAngelo the 2nd best dman. They were the 2nd and 3rd best Canes behind only Slavin.

On a per60 basis, Niederreiter was the best player on the Canes, and DeAngelo again the 3rd best.

Both far far better than Pacioretty or Burns, who themselves were barely better than Trochek.

So according to GAR, the Canes just had a disastrous offseason, and losing their BEST player Niederreiter just to see him sign for $4mx2yrs is an epic, epic blunder.

If you look at my initial post my argument is not that Niederreiter is a better player than Nylander, it is that he provides more value on his contract than Nylander. As you and I have discussed - you prefer GSVA. GSVA tells you the same story that Niederreiter is a far better play driver than Nylander.

I would definitely argue that the Canes are worse by swapping Trochek, TDA, Nino for Burns, Patches. They could be just as good as last year or better but I don't think those moves are a slam dunk win.

Nino Niederrieter is someone you happily play on a line with or behind Nylander's line, not someone as a Nylander substitute. Nylander outscored Nino by 36 points this past season and was closer to Jarnkrok's 30 points, if we're looking at any random number.

The argument is that Niederreiter provides better value on his contract which I will stand by until someone provides a good reason otherwise.

Points aren't everything in hockey and I don't understand why that's hard to comprehend.

 

[Americanadian]

uh like what exactly? How can a guy be a better play driver when his career high is 25 goals and pts is 57.

You can say fundamentally all you want, but that is simply not true. And literally not close? I don't think either of those terms apply here. We're talking about a guy who was for the first half of the season before marner and matthews got going was our best forward. Ridiculous that you think nino is the better play driver. It doesn't even make sense.

A guy who who has 34 goals and 80 pts is THE better play driver no matter what mental gymnastics you want to do around it.

There's a difference between having immense talent and putting up points like Nylander does and allowing your team to have sustained o-zone time like Niederreiter does. If you want to ignore the numbers then that's your prerogative.

I don't buy this.

The calculation is not correct. There is 0% chance that Bunting provides a higher raw value than Marner.

That depends what model you use. GSVA values Marner over Bunting. GSVA also has Marner/Matthews at higher value per dollar than Nylander as we were originally discussing.

 

[Americanadian]

In a CAP WORLD...Nylander at $6.9 million is the best contract on the forward group and should not be moved. You butting into a conversation about trading Nylander about how Matthews is more valuable...nobody is disputing that but McDavid, Matthews, Mackinnon types never get traded so that's pointless to bring up.

2.You bringing up Matthews is irrelevant anyways because he would never be the one to be traded to create cap space

Matthews is more value per dollar than Nylander. He won the hart trophy this year. I don't know why that's such a ridiculous take.

No, he hasn't.

He doesn't even face top players for goodness sake. He's a nice prospect with some potential, but let's pump the brakes on drastically overrating Tomasino like this.

It appears the only opinion you value is your own but here's a recent list of the top 10 defensive C's statistically this year.

 

[zeke]

If you look at my initial post my argument is not that Niederreiter is a better player than Nylander, it is that he provides more value on his contract than Nylander. As you and I have discussed - you prefer GSVA. GSVA tells you the same story that Niederreiter is a far better play driver than Nylander.

I would definitely argue that the Canes are worse by swapping Trochek, TDA, Nino for Burns, Patches. They could be just as good as last year or better but I don't think those moves are a slam dunk win.


The argument is that Niederreiter provides better value on his contract which I will stand by until someone provides a good reason otherwise.

Points aren't everything in hockey and I don't understand why that's hard to comprehend.

And GAR tells us that Bunting is approximately literally twice as valuable as Niederreiter, which makes Bunting not just massively better than Nylander, but insanely more valuable and the best value contract in hockey by massive margin.

These numbers get dangerous when you fail to distinguish between play drivers and complementary players.

 

[Americanadian]

And GAR tells us that Bunting is approximately literally twice as valuable as Niederreiter, which makes Bunting not just massively better than Nylander, but insanely more valuable and the best value contract in hockey by massive margin.

These numbers get dangerous when you fail to distinguish between play drivers and complementary players.

Any model you look at will tell you that Bunting is more valuable than Nylander and Nino. He literally does have the best value contract in the NHL. He scored the same amount of ES points as McDavid last year.

 

[zeke]

Any model you look at will tell you that Bunting is more valuable than Nylander and Nino. He literally does have the best value contract in the NHL. He scored the same amount of ES points as McDavid last year.

OK, so let's think about what that means then.

 

[Fogelhund]

OK, so let's think about what that means then.

I think it means that Edmonton would be willing to trade McDavid for Bunting, given they are allegedly equal players.

 

[TheDoldrums]

Bunting is the high end depth piece we should extend. I didn't care about keeping any of Hyman, Mikheyev, Kappy, Johnsson, etc. But losing Bunting would hurt.

 

[BertCorbeau]

Give bunting high end third line/low need second line winger money over the long term and it should work out. Especially with the cap increasing soon.

 

[WTFMAN99]

Bunting is the high end depth piece we should extend. I didn't care about keeping any of Hyman, Mikheyev, Kappy, Johnsson, etc. But losing Bunting would hurt.

Wonder where the production is if he's not with Matthews and Marner though?

I don't know how much we can afford.

4x4?

 

[Fogelhund]

More Cap math gymnastics. Moving out Holl and Muzzin, signing Sandin at $ 2 mil... trading for Tanev $1 mil retained, still have, $2.7 mil to sign a forward.. and that's running a 22 person roster. I'd say Stastny, as it gives us a decent C... In this scenario your third line is Kerfoot Stastny Jarnkrok.... which is decent depth.

 

[ULF_55]

If you look at my initial post my argument is not that Niederreiter is a better player than Nylander, it is that he provides more value on his contract than Nylander. As you and I have discussed - you prefer GSVA. GSVA tells you the same story that Niederreiter is a far better play driver than Nylander.

I would definitely argue that the Canes are worse by swapping Trochek, TDA, Nino for Burns, Patches. They could be just as good as last year or better but I don't think those moves are a slam dunk win.


The argument is that Niederreiter provides better value on his contract which I will stand by until someone provides a good reason otherwise.

Points aren't everything in hockey and I don't understand why that's hard to comprehend.

Corect points aren't everything.

However, goals are. That's what they use to determine winners and losers. Most goals in a game > %

 

[Fogelhund]

Give bunting high end third line/low need second line winger money over the long term and it should work out. Especially with the cap increasing soon.

I think that's premature. Love what he's done, but our prospect system is very heavily skewed towards LW. I think it's prudent to wait and see what happens this year, with the development of our LW.

1. Is Amirov healthy, does he play, and does he show enough to warrant coming to NA next year?
2. Does Knies adjust to the NHL, after his NCAA season?
3. What does Robertson show this year?
4. How does Holmberg play?
5. Then there are guys like Abruzzese and Voit potentially at LW too.

When you have four talented (potential) LW in the system, committing much in cap, or term, to a non-core player, might not be the best idea. This is a position that we **might** have very cheap replacement options, but we really need this season to play out, for us to know the answers to that one.

 

[Americanadian]

I think it means that Edmonton would be willing to trade McDavid for Bunting, given they are allegedly equal players.

I’d say Bunting provides more value per dollar.

Corect points aren't everything.

However, goals are. That's what they use to determine winners and losers. Most goals in a game > %

I personally don’t think goals are the be all end all of player evaluation.

 

[zeke]

The Cap situation isn't too tight next year tbh. No jumps in caphit from this year on any of the current contracts,

the prospects should be filling the ranks next year or else they never will - Robertson and Knies in prominent roles and the likes of Abbruzese Steeves Holmberg Anderson in support roles.

And there will still be a solid layer of prospects behind them that we won't need to depend on yet - Amirov, Hirvonen, Niemela, Villeneuve, Kokkonen, Hildeby, etc.

Kampf shouldn't be in line for much of a raise so we can decide whether we want to keep him or not.

All of Bunting, Engvall, Samsonov may be in line for significant raises and we could likely afford to give at least 2 of them the raises they would deserve.