GDT: Free agency madness, brought to you by the letter G - PART 2

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

yup and there have been decent defensemen moved for a good price the last few years. Ottawa just keeps putting crap beside Chabot outside of Zub who is used to anchor the 2nd pair

Yes, the last few years have been pretty painful as far as the defense goes. Probably some of the worst we've seen in Ottawa. I'm hopeful that we've added by subtraction a bit and that at least 1 or 2 can step up with those plugs out of the way. Like I said, I would love an upgrade, but at this point with what's left, I can see why we'd hold off. Anything prior is hard to say, seems like there were some decent options, but nothing that screamed out to me as a no brainer. Even JC being a LD has some complications with Chabot/Sanderson being on the left as well.

 

[HSF]

you guys are too focused on Marino. He is an example of one of many defensemen (esp LD like Chychrun) that have moved in the past few years. Dorion has painted himself in a corner waiting till Sept with minimal to no options left

Lets see how it goes down. Loyd could just be taking the heat off to have Arizona lower the price

 

[Micklebot]

maybe. He's also missed a lot of time and has only just started training for the season due to injury

Makes a lot more sense to get a top 4 D and if Sanderson works out then we are set for a run

Right now a lot of people are really under rating what we have imo.

We've pushed Zaitsev out of the top 4 with Hamonic and guys like Mete, Brown and MDZ off the roster with Sanderson and Brannstrom.

It's not a sexy improvement of adding a guy like Chychrun, but your bottom 4 D makes a big difference.

It's also worth pointing out that the bottom 6 forwards are significantly upgraded too, gone are the likes of Ennis, Gaudette, Sanford and Tierney from our third line. Instead we have Pinto, along with the addition of Giroux and DeBrincat pushing Formenton and Joseph to the third line.

Our undermanned D was exacerbated by a deficiency in the bottom 6, now the bottom 6 is a strength and should support an improved D group and instead of dragging it down

 

[JD1]

The D is much improved over the start of last season. Adding another top 4 D would be great but let’s not pretend we are still rolling out Mete, Brown, Del Zotto

If one cannot see that we're already improved on D over last year, you're wasting your time keeping the argument going

 

[Micklebot]

I don't think so at all

I think that's an evaluation that Marino isn't what we need

My guess is the team is much higher on JBD and Thomson than the fanbase is. If you look at Marino when he was the same age as JBD, he hadn't proven anything and had a less impressive college career, but he was able to step into a top 4 role on a well coached team because he had some insulation.

We've added a lot of insulation by improving the forwards. I think we have the right environment to bring a guy like JBD or Thomson in if we want. The only holdup is we probably want to ease one rookie D in at a time and Sanderson probably gets first go, so as soon as he shows he no longer needs his hand held I think we'll see one of JBD or Thomson get a shot.

 

[HSF]

If one cannot see that we're already improved on D over last year, you're wasting your time keeping the argument going

not enough

My guess is the team is much higher on JBD and Thomson than the fanbase is. If you look at Marino when he was the same age as JBD, he hadn't proven anything and had a less impressive college career, but he was able to step into a top 4 role on a well coached team because he had some insulation.

We've added a lot of insulation by improving the forwards. I think we have the right environment to bring a guy like JBD or Thomson in if we want. The only holdup is we probably want to ease one rookie D in at a time and Sanderson probably gets first go, so as soon as he shows he no longer needs his hand held I think we'll see one of JBD or Thomson get a shot.

Having two rookies in the top 4 seems like a disaster waiting to happen. They need insultation on defense and we need to figure out who is playing with Chabot. As things sit right now it can't be Zub as he needs to be used on the 2nd pair. can JBD or Sanderson fill that top spot? seems unlikely

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

Hopefully some improved goaltending should come to pass as well. That would be huge after all the inconsistency from Murray, Gus and even going back to Andy's last 3 years with us.

 

[Bevans]

I'm hoping the reason no defenceman trade has happened yet is because Dorion has more composure than a lot of posters.

Stick to price he's willing to pay for Chychrun, if that doesn't work then onto the next target. It's summer, GM's are relaxing right before training camp.

Just gotta take a breath and wait for the pressure to build, then we see who blinks first.

Senators don't need to do anything in late august.

 

[Micklebot]

not enough

I suppose we shall see. If Sanderson is the player Dorion describes him as, that's a huge improvement. I think Brannstrom gets undervalued here, and Hamonic seems to be lumped in as a bottom pair guy but has been consistently getting Top 4 mins everywhere he goes. 3 different teams in the last 3 seasons have been giving him top 4 mins.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

If one cannot see that we're already improved on D over last year, you're wasting your time keeping the argument going

Right now, the only way our D may have improved is through internal growth. It may be enough, it may not be.

Considering how poor our D has performed these last few years, I think concerns and the desire to get outside help are warranted.

It is all about the cost and logistics of acquiring said outside help. I'm ok with seeing if the internal growth will be enough since Chychrun sounds way too expensive, asset-wise, to land.

 

[GCK]

you guys are too focused on Marino. He is an example of one of many defensemen (esp LD like Chychrun) that have moved in the past few years. Dorion has painted himself in a corner waiting till Sept with minimal to no options left

Lets see how it goes down. Loyd could just be taking the heat off to have Arizona lower the price

There has been an obvious shift in the way Dorion is able to operate since Melnyk died. Prior to this off season it’s been reported that Melnyk had input on every hockey move and now he is given his budget and he has the freedom to act as he sees fit. Given this I don’t think looking back to previous off seasons provides fair evaluation.

 

[Micklebot]

Having two rookies in the top 4 seems like a disaster waiting to happen. They need insultation on defense and we need to figure out who is playing with Chabot. As things sit right now it can't be Zub as he needs to be used on the 2nd pair. can JBD or Sanderson fill that top spot? seems unlikely

Well Sanderson isn't your typical rookie, like I said earlier, go look at historical comparables.

That said, Zub can and imo should play with Chabot. Hamonic is getting lumped in as a bottom pair guy but has played as a top 4 guy every year he's been in the league including the last three seasons across three different teams and under 5 different coaches.

 

[GCK]

Chabot Zub
Brannstrom Hamonic
Sanderson Holden
Zaitsev

Still likely not quite league average but no longer bottom 3, our forwards are way above league average and our goaltending is probably league average.

If we can have a top 10 Power Play and top 15 PK we should be in the thick of the playoff race.

 

[Micklebot]

Chabot Zub
Brannstrom Hamonic
Sanderson Holden
Zaitsev

Still likely not quite league average but no longer bottom 3, our forwards are way above league average and our goaltending is probably league average.

If we can have a top 10 Power Play and top 15 PK we should be in the thick of the playoff race.

I'd flip Sanderson and Brannstrom myself, and we'll have to wait and see if DJ is willing to play Holden on his offside.

I thought Holden and Brannstrom looked great together in preseason last year, they got a few more games in the reg season and looked good from what I recall. I could see it working out.

 

[SlapJack]

you guys are too focused on Marino. He is an example of one of many defensemen (esp LD like Chychrun) that have moved in the past few years. Dorion has painted himself in a corner waiting till Sept with minimal to no options left

Lets see how it goes down. Loyd could just be taking the heat off to have Arizona lower the price

You're working under the assumption that Dorion has done nothing, but no doubt he has been trying to get a top 4 D for a very long time now.

Acquisitions don't happen in a vacuum, there are 31 other teams in the league, NTC's exist, cost of RHD is typically high, and timing is everything. Dorion ran into Chicago's GM at a restaurant and talked about DeBrincat. Maybe the deal doesn't happen without that chance encounter.

You make it sound simple to get players but how many times have you seen good teams never get anywhere because they just can't solve their goalie problem? Look at the Leafs, they took a huge risk on a guy that we didn't want because they can't find a goalie. Ottawa had the same problem for years as well.

There have been some D available, but most cases not what we want or need, or the acquisition price whether that be $ or assets, was too much.

 

[HSF]

You're working under the assumption that Dorion has done nothing, but no doubt he has been trying to get a top 4 D for a very long time now.

Acquisitions don't happen in a vacuum, there are 31 other teams in the league, NTC's exist, cost of RHD is typically high, and timing is everything. Dorion ran into Chicago's GM at a restaurant and talked about DeBrincat. Maybe the deal doesn't happen without that chance encounter.

You make it sound simple to get players but how many times have you seen good teams never get anywhere because they just can't solve their goalie problem? Look at the Leafs, they took a huge risk on a guy that we didn't want because they can't find a goalie. Ottawa had the same problem for years as well.

There have been some D available, but most cases not what we want or need, or the acquisition price whether that be $ or assets, was too much.

if you can't find a top 4 d (either LD or RD) within 3 years then you aren't a very good GM

 

[SlapJack]

if you can't find a top 4 d (either LD or RD) within 3 years then you aren't a very good GM

Artem Zub

 

[Micklebot]

if you can't find a top 4 d (either LD or RD) within 3 years then you aren't a very good GM

Good news, Zub is a top 4 d on just about ever team in the league, and heck, Hamonic has been one in each of the last 3 years across 3 different teams.

Sanderson will undoubtedly be a top 4 D too, so I guess he's found 3 in the last 3 years

 

[SlapJack]

Good news, Zub is a top 4 d on just about ever team in the league, and heck, Hamonic has been one in each of the last 3 years across 3 different teams.

Sanderson will undoubtedly be a top 4 D too, so I guess he's found 3 in the last 3 years

They also drafted or traded for 3 RD picked in the first round - Thomson, JBD, and Brannstrom (I know Bran is lefty but he played right when drafted). They're trying to improve, doesn't come easy

 

[Golden_Jet]

you guys are too focused on Marino. He is an example of one of many defensemen (esp LD like Chychrun) that have moved in the past few years. Dorion has painted himself in a corner waiting till Sept with minimal to no options left

Lets see how it goes down. Loyd could just be taking the heat off to have Arizona lower the price

You really think Arizona, knows or cares who Lloyd is.

 

[playasRus]

you guys are too focused on Marino. He is an example of one of many defensemen (esp LD like Chychrun) that have moved in the past few years. Dorion has painted himself in a corner waiting till Sept with minimal to no options left

Lets see how it goes down. Loyd could just be taking the heat off to have Arizona lower the price

We come out of that corner everytime the season resets though. It's not over forever juts because he missed out on one crop of D.

Negative Positive it doesn't matter. This team has had a poor defense for a while and it needs to be fixed

Can't expect to fix all the problems in one go.

Agreed that Marino does feel like a missed opportunity for at worst a #4-5D, more likely a #3-4D, on a long term contract. Worth noting that his contract IS back loaded though, which does make it a challenge for Ottawa usually. To boot, why was Pittsburgh so quick to dump him? If htey have cap troubles, then why bother and go replace him with a more expensive Petry? They could have just dumped Matheson and been OK cap wise.

You'd have to think they consulted Bowness on Marino too, on top of trying to offload Zaitsev at the same time. It's a tall task to do all that AND get Giroux AND DeBrincat AND re-sign Norris.

Could also be tunnel vision and PD just wanted Chychrun or bust.

But regardless, it's not the end of the world to not have improved the back end this offseason. Reconfigure this season and next season we go at it again. There may be more Weegar, Burns, Romanov, McDonagh, Myers, Matheson, Petry, Marino, DeAngelo, trades next offseason or even TDL trades like Leddy, Braun, Lauzon, Gioradano, Lindholm, Moore, Chiarot, Manson, Zadorov that we saw last deadline.

Then if all that flops, we have anothe rshot at offloading Zaitsev and his 2.5M cash, 4.5M cap next season for a lowered rate instead AND new crop of UFAs in Dumba, Orlove, Sanheim, Ghost, Klefbom, Severson, Dumoulin, Weegar, Shatty, Graves, Cole, Moore, Jensen, Maata.

Lots of possibilities and time, without needing to shoot ourselves in the foot and narrow our window of competition by taking on big contracts and unloading assets brashly.

 

[Ice-Tray]

We literally hired a guy from Pittsburg to be our AGM. I suspect that not wanting Marino has more than the usual info the back it.

Anyways, this is just noise at this point. Our D was much better to end the season than it was to start, and now we are adding at least Sanderson, and Talbot to the mix. Already got n paper to use two pretty big degrees better than it was to start the year last year, which is the disingenuous argument being thrown out there in here.

We already had a better defence than the one that faltered to start last season, and now it’s even better. We also haven’t been very interested I winning games for the last three years. We’re obviously not going to make any huge moves when we are moving at the speed of the core, while trying to get the best draft picks.

 

[playasRus]

We literally hired a guy from Pittsburg to be our AGM. I suspect that not wanting Marino has more than the usual info the back it.

Anyways, this is just noise at this point. Our D was much better to end the season than it was to start, and now we are adding at least Sanderson, and Talbot to the mix. Already got n paper to use two pretty big degrees better than it was to start the year last year, which is the disingenuous argument being thrown out there in here.

We already had a better defence than the one that faltered to start last season, and now it’s even better. We also haven’t been very interested I winning games for the last three years. We’re obviously not going to make any huge moves when we are moving at the speed of the core, while trying to get the best draft picks.

You mean this awesome group?

Chabot - Zub
Brannstrom - Zaitsev
Mete - Holden
Brown

or was it this?

Chabot - Zub
Mete - Zaitsev
MDZ - Holden
J. Brown

 

[JD1]

My guess is the team is much higher on JBD and Thomson than the fanbase is. If you look at Marino when he was the same age as JBD, he hadn't proven anything and had a less impressive college career, but he was able to step into a top 4 role on a well coached team because he had some insulation.

We've added a lot of insulation by improving the forwards. I think we have the right environment to bring a guy like JBD or Thomson in if we want. The only holdup is we probably want to ease one rookie D in at a time and Sanderson probably gets first go, so as soon as he shows he no longer needs his hand held I think we'll see one of JBD or Thomson get a shot.

I'd agree with that. How many games in a row did JBD go without being on the ice for a 5 on 5 goal?

We don't need pair anchors on the right. We have them on the left. This isn't an unlimited spending world. I'd be good if Sanderson played the full season and the other two each got 40 games in.

 

[JD1]

I suppose we shall see. If Sanderson is the player Dorion describes him as, that's a huge improvement. I think Brannstrom gets undervalued here, and Hamonic seems to be lumped in as a bottom pair guy but has been consistently getting Top 4 mins everywhere he goes. 3 different teams in the last 3 seasons have been giving him top 4 mins.

Hamonic has played top 4 minutes his entire career. 718 games averaging 21:47 a night. He's an upgrade on Zaitsev, who in turn is an upgrade on most of the 3rd pair Rd ice last year..