GDT: Free agency madness, brought to you by the letter G - PART 2

[umma gumma]

upgrading on Zaitsev is the absolute bare minimum. Fine. Dorion did that. Zaitsev is not an upgrade on brannstrom or Holden. In any area of the game. And I thought even Lassi was better than Zaitsev last year.

Same, but that bar is pretty low.

 

[Micklebot]

upgrading on Zaitsev is the absolute bare minimum. Fine. Dorion did that. Zaitsev is not an upgrade on brannstrom or Holden. In any area of the game. And I thought even Lassi was better than Zaitsev last year.

But he is an upgrade on guys like Mete, J.Brown, and Heatherington who combined for 92 games last year. Pushing Zaitsev to the bottom pair upgrades the bottom pair, and if Holden and Brannstrom or JBD and Thomson can push him to being the 7th D even better. Zaitsev as a guy that fills in for injuries would be a pretty enviable position from a purely on ice perspective (just don't look at his cap hit...)

Zaitsev has been slotted too high since his days in Toronto, put him on a bottom pair facing the type of opposition we typically had Mete and Brown out against and he's going to be adequate.

Edit; wrt Lassi, I really thought his callups were pretty uneven. There were times when he looked like a potential solution to our top 4 and others where he looked overwhelmed.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

Ironically I could see the team blaming him for missing the playoffs due to him not joining the team until 2 Nov due to his admittedly confusing position on vaccination.

The team went 3-5-1 before he joined the team, and finished 5 pts back from the preds for the final wild card spot. Lost a couple really winnable games against Det, Buf and the Flyers in that stretch before he joined, so that probably bent some guys the wrong way on the team and in the fanbase, particularly when the reason he was out was hard to understand.

So in a way, Van may have missed the playoffs because he wasn't there to play in their top 4...

Interesting thought. That doesn't seem unreasonable as there really doesn't seem to be a lot of patience in general in sports for those that wouldn't just vaccinate for the sake of their team and I can see a disruption like that not sitting well. Wanna play pro sports, seems like you either need to do it or accept pissing off at least some of your teammates.

 

[HSF]

Duuuuude.

It’s like you specifically ignore relevant information if it doesn’t fit the point you’re making.

Hamonic was in the outs in Vancouver because he initially refused to get vaccinated and this couldn’t travel with the team or play. The team felt that they really needed him and he was unavailable due to an unpopular personal choice.

This created a lockerroom rift that needed fixing.

He was not traded because of reduced skill or roll on that team.

He eventually explained that his hesitancy was due to fears over his daughters health, but eventually he got the vaccine.

Hamonic is a #4 RD, or at least he was to close out last year. We’ll have to see how he goes this season. Players don’t automatically suck when they turn 30, and Hamonic is the defensive guy on his pairings, not the play driver.

We’re in fine shape to start the season. And upgrade would be nice, but at this point is not necessary. We can afford to wait and see how the RD kids do, or a good deal for us comes along.

If Hamonic is our solution in the top 4 we are big trouble

 

[JD1]

But he is an upgrade on guys like Mete, J.Brown, and Heatherington who combined for 92 games last year. Pushing Zaitsev to the bottom pair upgrades the bottom pair, and if Holden and Brannstrom or JBD and Thomson can push him to being the 7th D even better. Zaitsev as a guy that fills in for injuries would be a pretty enviable position from a purely on ice perspective (just don't look at his cap hit...)

Zaitsev has been slotted too high since his days in Toronto, put him on a bottom pair facing the type of opposition we typically had Mete and Brown out against and he's going to be adequate.

Edit; wrt Lassi, I really thought his callups were pretty uneven. There were times when he looked like a potential solution to our top 4 and others where he looked overwhelmed.

And this was the point I was making. Zaitsev will be fine on a 3rd pair. The NHL is very much about slotting. I think with a right side of Zub, Hamonic, Zaitsev or one of the two kids, and a left side with Chabot, Brannstrom, Sanderson and Holden there won't be any significant overslotting.

Perhaps Brannstrom but he is still a developing D and it's unlikely he's hit his peak.

 

[Mark Stones Spleen]

Maybe having a better team just helps out with the defense in general. Most people thought Gudbranson was useless and he played pretty damn good hockey for the top team in west. Pushing Zaitzev to the 6th spot should be okay, Harmonic is probably fine on D2 or if he builds chemistry with Chabot then that's even better.

 

[Micklebot]

If Hamonic is our solution in the top 4 we are big trouble

I don't see it. In the games he played last year, Vancouver played at a 103 pts pace. Thats with him on their top pair.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

Same, but that bar is pretty low.

Yes exactly. So improving on Zaitsev doesn’t necessarily improve our defence enough to make noise.

 

[Micklebot]

Yes exactly. So improving on Zaitsev doesn’t necessarily improve our defence enough to make noise.

Any time you improve by pushing guys down it has a cascading effect. Upgrading Zaitsev a little bit means we improved two pairings a little bit, that's going to result in an improvement in over half the game since the bottom 4 is typically on the ice for 35-40 mins a night

I think our biggest improvement will come from Sanderson, I am a bit concerned it will push Brannstrom out of the lineup though, my preference would be to have him and maybe have Holden play RD on the third pair instead of Zaitsev but I'm not sure what DJ will do.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

Any time you improve by pushing guys down it has a cascading effect. Upgrading Zaitsev a little bit means we improved two pairings a little bit, that's going to result in an improvement in over half the game since the bottom 4 is typically on the ice for 35-40 mins a night

I think our biggest improvement will come from Sanderson, I am a bit concerned it will push Brannstrom out of the lineup though, my preference would be to have him and maybe have Holden play RD on the third pair instead of Zaitsev but I'm not sure what DJ will do.

This is extremely optimistic.

There’s improvement. And then there’s improvement that makes a difference. Hamonic on a pair instead of Zaitsev doesn’t take that pair to the next level. And Zaitsev on the third pair instead of anyone else currently slotted to play there certainly doesn’t even improve it it actually makes it worse.

Sanderson needs to be great. Like truly great for that defence to stand a chance

 

[bicboi64]

I don't see it. In the games he played last year, Vancouver played at a 103 pts pace. Thats with him on their top pair.

Vancouver also had a coaching change that was sorely needed. Also, him playing in Vancouver's top 4 isn't overly re-assuring considering how bad Vancouver's defense was last year until their coaching change. The year before he was 5th in ice time on the nucks. I'm not saying Hamonic is the worst option for our 2nd pairing but we have an aging defender who at best is a #4 while we kinda need something better. There's a wide gap between Chabot, Zub and then everybody else

 

[Micklebot]

This is extremely optimistic.

There’s improvement. And then there’s improvement that makes a difference. Hamonic on a pair instead of Zaitsev doesn’t take that pair to the next level. And Zaitsev on the third pair instead of anyone else currently slotted to play there certainly doesn’t even improve it it actually makes it worse.

Sanderson needs to be great. Like truly great for that defence to stand a chance

I'd argue you're actually the one being extremely pessimistic.

Personally, I saw Hamonic as a substantial upgrade over Zaitsev. He handles the puck much better, and is just as good if not better winning puck battles and on the PK. Hamonic also doesn't make the really questionable decisions defending two on ones that Zaitsev does.

Wrt the 3rd pair, we went most of the year with Mete, MDZ, J.Brown, and Heatherington on it. Zaitsev is an upgrade over last year, but if he's not an upgrade over who you think is slatted to play there (Thomson, JBD or Holden on his offside I guess), well that's still a good thing, and an upgrade over last year. If we have Zaitsev stepping in when someone gets hurt instead of Heatherington, that's good not bad.

As for Sanderson, we can look at comparable d over the years to get an idea of what kind of impact he could have.

Take a look at guys coming out of college who were similarly touted, McAvoy, Hughes, Makar Wierenski, Hanninfan, Trouba, all these guys came in at a similar age or younger and had immediate success in top 4 roles. He's going to be fine, his skillset is custom made for today's game.

 

[BondraTime]

Hamonic isn't a meaningful improvement anywhere.

It's an improvement, but doesn't move the needle in the slightest. Could find someone off the wire to do just as good a job at the beginning of any offseason

 

[Daffy]

Hamonic isn't a meaningful improvement anywhere.

It's an improvement, but doesn't move the needle in the slightest. Could find someone off the wire to do just as good a job at the beginning of any offseason

Hamonic was very solid with us last year. Capable dmen aren't just hanging around on the wire lol. He's perfectly capable on the 3rd pair.

 

[Hale The Villain]

If Zaitsev is playing #6 minutes I don't think he's nearly as much of an issue. Might even do fine in that kind of role and not hurt the team.

Hamonic pushing Zaitsev down the lineup is a win, but Hamonic sucked in Vancouver last year and I don't trust him to succeed in a top 4 role.

 

[TheNewEra]

Okay. Even if that’s your evaluation, you move him without bringing in an upgrade. Now what? Your left with one less NHL caliber D. That doesn’t sound ideal.

i rather a young dman make mistakes that we can consider growing pains for later or seeing what we have with that young dman then zaistev making the same mistakes while getting overplayed

give that slot to bran/jbd/lassi and see what we have with them. Ideally i rather sub out zaistev and get an upgrade but getting rid of zaistev needs to happen

 

[Micklebot]

Vancouver also had a coaching change that was sorely needed. Also, him playing in Vancouver's top 4 isn't overly re-assuring considering how bad Vancouver's defense was last year until their coaching change. The year before he was 5th in ice time on the nucks. I'm not saying Hamonic is the worst option for our 2nd pairing but we have an aging defender who at best is a #4 while we kinda need something better. There's a wide gap between Chabot, Zub and then everybody else

He was 3rd in ES toi the year before, special teams put Schmidt and Edler ahead of him but he was on the top pair with Hughes all year.

He missed a good chunk of the games prior to the Boudreau hire due to him not wanting to vaccinate which likely weighed into the perception of their D prior.

I think saying at best we have an aging #4 is missleading, off ice issues made Van a tough room for him, that's on him due to the decision he made, but he thought right or wrong he was doing what was in the best interest of his kid, so I won't fault him for that. He's got a fresh start now, and Covid drama hopefully won't create a toxic locker room for him this go around, I thought he did well in his short stint last year and don't see an issue with where we have him slotted

 

[JackieDaytona]

Incremental improvements are still improvements even if small, and you put a few of them together and it potentially makes a bigger impact on things that matter - like wins, GA, etc.

Being patient with potential solutions in younger Dmen still developing may not be as good immediately as bringing in a sure fire quality Top4 D. But it long run might be better for the makeup of our team - sustainable, 'good enough' players slotted properly into roles that take reasonable contracts and are likely to outplay their salaries while here, rather than a bigger name looking for a splashy pay day that the team has already invested trade assets into, who may or may not live up to big contracts and cause difficult cap /roster decisions much earlier than internal options.

I liked Lassi more than I didn't last year, I liked JBD too although Lassi had the better showing IMO - but both with the understanding that they are not going to be superstars for this team. But they don't need to be. We need dependable dmen who can skate and complement Chabot, Zub. Theses prospects continue to develop and understand what it would take for them to have a spot on this team. Brannstrom I feel is undervalued - still young, still improving, plays better than often credited for here.

I know this team cannot have another slow start out of the gate, but this team would be better off and poised for longer term success if we figure out what we have with these young Dmen before making a big trade (not many great options out there, no longer convinced Chychrun is a fit for this team given what we'd need to give up for him).

 

[Micklebot]

Hamonic isn't a meaningful improvement anywhere.

It's an improvement, but doesn't move the needle in the slightest. Could find someone off the wire to do just as good a job at the beginning of any offseason

I strongly disagree with this, if it were that easy we'd have been a much better D corps over the last few years, capable RHD in particular are a commodity, we've been picking up guys Gudbranson, J.Brown, Mete, and MDZ specifically because it's hard to get guys that are capable of playing more than bottom pair mins.

 

[HSF]

Hamonic was very solid with us last year. Capable dmen aren't just hanging around on the wire lol. He's perfectly capable on the 3rd pair.

Solid dmen for us after there was zero pressure to perform and he new team adrenaline

As a third pair sure he is good but we need a top 4 D

 

[Ice-Tray]

If Hamonic is our solution in the top 4 we are big trouble

He’s not the solution, but he’s an actual top 4 D man that we can slot in while we exhibit patience.

I also completely disagree that we’re in trouble this season.

I think you’ll be pleasantly surprised with our our team defence.

 

[JD1]

He’s not the solution, but he’s an actual top 4 D man that we can slot in while we exhibit patience.

I also completely disagree that we’re in trouble this season.

I think you’ll be pleasantly surprised with our our team defence.

The D will be in better shape than at any point last year. Hamonic is an add. Sanderson is an add. Brannstrom closed out the year well and had a summer to get stronger. And the forward group is considerably stronger which puts less pressure on the D.

I'm actually excited to see Brannstrom on PP 2. Last year for a lot of the season he was the only guy on PP 2 that actually belonged on an NHL PP. Him and White in White's limited time. That 2nd PP will be able to score and Brannstrom's point totals should benefit from it

 

[HSF]

DJ calling the defense adequate is pretty telling that they gotta add someone

 

[Bileur]

The D will be in better shape than at any point last year. Hamonic is an add. Sanderson is an add. Brannstrom closed out the year well and had a summer to get stronger. And the forward group is considerably stronger which puts less pressure on the D.

I'm actually excited to see Brannstrom on PP 2. Last year for a lot of the season he was the only guy on PP 2 that actually belonged on an NHL PP. Him and White in White's limited time. That 2nd PP will be able to score and Brannstrom's point totals should benefit from it

PP 2 will get a huge boost. Adding two of Stützle, DeBrincat, Batherson, Tkachuk, Norris, and Giroux, (my guess would be they roll with the same unit 1 as last year to start the season and then work in G and Cat as time progresses) plus presumably Pinto will make a huge difference.

Stützle, Norris, Chabot, Batherson, Tkachuk.
Giroux, Debrincat, Brannstrom, Pinto, Joseph.

I can’t wait to see what Pinto can do this year.

 

[GCK]

DJ calling the defense adequate is pretty telling that they gotta add someone

What are you willing to give up to unload Zaitsev and acquire the top 4 D ?