Proposal: Free agency edition Trade Rumours/Proposals [MOD - Stay on Topic] 5

[Micklebot]

This is what BicBoi said

In the event that we have to choose between Chychrun or Chabot (for Karlsson, or any other player), I'm picking Chychrun only if he signs for $7 million long term. He's too injury prone and not as good as Chabot 5on5 to warrant a salary above that. Could change under JM.

Bicboi64 didn't compare Chabot and Chychrun from an injury perspective, he simply said that Chychrun is too injury prone.

The first comparison is due diligence's and he put a timeline on it. The last 3.x seasons.

Due diligence never downplayed Chychrun's injury proneness, he just put a timeline on it.

Jesus JD1, it's a direct comparison,

"If We have to choose between Chabot and Chychrun", then says Chych is too injury prone, the comparison is implied, you're twisting yourself in a lnot to justify nonsense.

 

[JD1]

Jesus JD1, it's a direct comparison,

"If We have to choose between Chabot and Chychrun", then says Chych is too injury prone, the comparison is implied, you're twisting yourself in a lnot to justify nonsense.

Saying Chychrun is injury prone is a statement

Due diligence put a timeline on it. 3.5 years

You reframed the timeline. Full career.

 

[Micklebot]

Saying Chychrun is injury prone is a statement

Due diligence put a timeline on it. 3.5 years

You reframed the timeline. Full career.

Ok there jd1, a statement isafe within the context of the discussion, if you want to ignore that context, we no longer have a discussion, have a good day taking things out of context because I frankly don't have the patience to go back and forth with you trying to twist things

 

[Larionov]

Just here to lament the fact that Dorion gave Tarasenko a NTC. Absolutely brutal - the one silver lining with him was that you could potentially move him and get some draft picks, and now we are hostage to where he wants to go, if anywhere. If he declines a trade that is entirely his right, as we were stupid enough to give him the NTC...

 

[JD1]

Ok there jd1, a statement isafe within the context of the discussion, if you want to ignore that context, we no longer have a discussion, have a good day taking things out of context because I frankly don't have the patience to go back and forth with you trying to twist things

Look in the mirror if you want to discuss twisting

All I've done is point out exactly what's been said.

BicBoi said "Chychrun is too injury prone"

He didn't say "Chychrun is more injury prone than Chabot over their careers" YOU said that in response to the point that over the last few seasons, 3.5, he's played more games than Chabot

Not wanting to sign Chychrun because he's injury prone is completely valid. The comparison to Chabot is actually "not as good as Chabot 5 on 5"

If he'd said "more" injury prone, ya, that's a comparison

One is a statement, one is a comparison. That's how English works.

You're assuming what he implied, I'm simply looking at the words he used.

 

[Micklebot]

Look in the mirror if you want to discuss twisting

All I've done is point out exactly what's been said.

BicBoi said "Chychrun is too injury prone"

He didn't say "Chychrun is more injury prone than Chabot over their careers" YOU said that in response to the point that over the last few seasons, 3.5, he's played more games than Chabot

Not wanting to sign Chychrun because he's injury prone is completely valid. The comparison to Chabot is actually "not as good as Chabot 5 on 5"

If he'd said "more" injury prone, ya, that's a comparison

One is a statement, one is a comparison. That's how English works.

You're assuming what he implied, I'm simply looking at the words he used.

It's a direct comparison between the two JD1, he's picking one over the other when considering the variables of salary, level of play and injuries, ect.

You want to take lines out of context, have at it but you'll be doing it without me,

 

[Perratrooper]

Toews. You guys have no forward we would want outside of Rantanen/Mack and Girard doesn't move the needle.

Sorry to circle back, is there a world where the Sens consider Rantanen+RyJo for Norris+Batherson? It’s a very similar money in money out trade and would give the Sens one of, if not the best line in hockey.

 

[frightenedinmatenum2]

Sorry to circle back, is there a world where the Sens consider Rantanen+RyJo for Norris+Batherson? It’s a very similar money in money out trade and would give the Sens one of, if not the best line in hockey.

Rantanen is a pending UFA next season. Most Canadian teams are unpopular destinations, so it is safe to assume he may not extend in Ottawa.

The only reason I could see Ottawa making that trade for 1 year of Rantanen is if they know something about the shoulder of Norris that worries them long-term.

If that trade comes with an extension, I think most people would say Ottawa makes it 10/10 times. Especially if when Pinto comes back he cements himself as a plausible 2C behind Stutzle. The Sens need size and Rantanen as it stands now is better than any forward on the Sens roster, and is still young.

 

[Perratrooper]

Rantanen is a pending UFA next season. Most Canadian teams are unpopular destinations, so it is safe to assume he may not extend in Ottawa.

The only reason I could see Ottawa making that trade for 1 year of Rantanen is if they know something about the shoulder of Norris that worries them long-term.

If that trade comes with an extension, I think most people would say Ottawa makes it 10/10 times. Especially if when Pinto comes back he cements himself as a plausible 2C behind Stutzle. The Sens need size and Rantanen as it stands now is better than any forward on the Sens roster, and is still young.

Yeah there’s a lot of risk just as is here. How is Norris’ shoulder, where does Batherson land in the 2017 scandal, does Mikko sign long term.

To me I think Mikko would sign anywhere that’s willing to pay him (he’ll likely want all of the RyJo contract when they expire), but I think he’d be willing to stay especially if the Sens start to do well.

Say this is an off-season trade and we make the assumption Mikko would sign an 8 by $13m extension (wouldn’t kick in till the season after) would Sens fans still consider it?

To likely get carried away, is there a planet where they could consider adding a player like Grieg?

 

[frightenedinmatenum2]

Yeah there’s a lot of risk just as is here. How is Norris’ shoulder, where does Batherson land in the 2017 scandal, does Mikko sign long term.

To me I think Mikko would sign anywhere that’s willing to pay him (he’ll likely want all of the RyJo contract when they expire), but I think he’d be willing to stay especially if the Sens start to do well.

Say this is an off-season trade and we make the assumption Mikko would sign an 8 by $13m extension (wouldn’t kick in till the season after) would Sens fans still consider it?

To likely get carried away, is there a planet where they could consider adding a player like Grieg?

I don't think Batherson is at any risk for the scandal.

I also don't mean to suggest the Senators would want to part with Norris, or that his injuries are likely to be aggravated. In the context of both those players going for 1 year of Rantanen, the Senators having some sort of inside track to worry about the shoulder of Norris is the only way I could see that.

If Colorado could get one of Norris or Batherson as the centrepiece for Rantanen without an extension, that alone would be very good for Colorado in a scenario where Rantanen won't re-sign there and won't help them by signing as part of a trade. It's difficult to find a comparable trade, because there aren't many.

 

[Agent Zuuuub]

The worst part about this is that individually these guys are all good players. But together they are toxic.

Need to break the bffs group.

 

[Perratrooper]

I don't think Batherson is at any risk for the scandal.

I also don't mean to suggest the Senators would want to part with Norris, or that his injuries are likely to be aggravated. In the context of both those players going for 1 year of Rantanen, the Senators having some sort of inside track to worry about the shoulder of Norris is the only way I could see that.

If Colorado could get one of Norris or Batherson as the centrepiece for Rantanen without an extension, that alone would be very good for Colorado in a scenario where Rantanen won't re-sign there and won't help them by signing as part of a trade. It's difficult to find a comparable trade, because there aren't many.

Glad to hear that, when I’ve brought up Bath before I’ve had other Sens fans list it as a concern.

As for Norris, yeah i would imagine injury history and info would have to be fully presented in a trade of this magnitude.

Either as a center piece where Mikko only had 1.5 years left sure (likely still would want more though as any fan would right or wrong), but if Mikko is traded it’s likely under the assumption/premiss that there is a deal go along with it in order for both teams to maximize value.

 

[senswon]

The worst part about this is that individually these guys are all good players. But together they are toxic.

Need to break the bffs group.

Toxic? For being slow transitioning with a new message// coach? For not immediately tearing the league apart?
I mean have you been in the room?
Maybe toxic was a bad choice of words


Imo peoples expectations are way outta wack.
New owner has only had the keys for like 6mnths.....i mean even dorion has only been gone for what....2 months?


We're not making playoffs this year and we blew another year of Giroux being here. This is where we are.
Personally I'm fine with some tweeking but not ready to throw the babies out with the bathwater

 

[Agent Zuuuub]

Toxic? For being slow transitioning with a new message// coach? For not immediately tearing the league apart?
I mean have you been in the room?
Maybe toxic was a bad choice of words


Imo peoples expectations are way outta wack.
New owner has only had the keys for like 6mnths.....i mean even dorion has only been gone for what....2 months?


We're not making playoffs this year and we blew another year of Giroux being here. This is where we are.
Personally I'm fine with some tweeking but not ready to throw the babies out with the bathwater

toxic to winning.

not toxic to having a good time.

lets be real there has never been a more pathetic senators team.

 

[senswon]

toxic to winning.

not toxic to having a good time.

lets be real there has never been a more pathetic senators team.

Guess you weren't around in 92-93....aka pre-Jacques 1.0

I had the pleasure in person. At least we beat Montreal for the home opener but woof.
We were much much much worse than this team

 

[Golden_Jet]

The worst part about this is that individually these guys are all good players. But together they are toxic.

Need to break the bffs group.

Good grief now if they play together they are poisoning each other.

 

[frightenedinmatenum2]

I don't think there is anything individually happening with any of these players, where they are lazy, not committed, bad personalities, etc. They have been in a negative situation for so long, and it is going to take some very thoughtful and deliberate moves to get the team over that hump and re-tool.

I think it might be a case where they need to rebuild the room with some tough veterans, who have won before. They may have to shake up the roster and re-tool, because this is clearly not working. They will move out 2-4 name members of the team, and go out in the summer and acquire their replacements with those assets.

Remember, the current management group didn't construct this team. They have no attachment to the players. It isn't like Staios is taking over a proven winner and just needs to add a few finishing touches to get them over the finish line. He is taking over another manager's vision, which has been a proven failure thus far, despite the rebuild supposedly ending in 2021.

These are predictions, not hopes, but I could see Chychrun and Batherson being the two big names moved at the TDL. Maybe Joseph, who has been excellent, but could be justified as selling high on. Those would be the easiest players to move who at this point might return major assets at the trade deadline. Assets which can be used to acquire players in the summer to retool the team in the image of the new management group.

In terms of free agents, Tarasenko, Brannstrom, and Kubalik all will be either traded or walked away from.

Then in the summer, they use those assets/cap to bring in bigger and tougher players and hopefully a cornerstone top 4 RHD. Both of which is easier said than done. They will have a turnover where they have roughly the same core of Tkachuk, Norris, Stutzle, Sanderson, Chabot, etc - but there is a big enough shakeup where 6-10 roster spots are completely changed.

 

[TheNewEra]

I don't think there is anything individually happening with any of these players, where they are lazy, not committed, bad personalities, etc. They have been in a negative situation for so long, and it is going to take some very thoughtful and deliberate moves to get the team over that hump and re-tool.

I think it might be a case where they need to rebuild the room with some tough veterans, who have won before. They may have to shake up the roster and re-tool, because this is clearly not working. They will move out 2-4 name members of the team, and go out in the summer and acquire their replacements with those assets.

Remember, the current management group didn't construct this team. They have no attachment to the players. It isn't like Staios is taking over a proven winner and just needs to add a few finishing touches to get them over the finish line. He is taking over another manager's vision, which has been a proven failure thus far, despite the rebuild supposedly ending in 2021.

These are predictions, not hopes, but I could see Chychrun and Batherson being the two big names moved at the TDL. Maybe Joseph, who has been excellent, but could be justified as selling high on. Those would be the easiest players to move who at this point might return major assets at the trade deadline. Assets which can be used to acquire players in the summer to retool the team in the image of the new management group.

In terms of free agents, Tarasenko, Brannstrom, and Kubalik all will be either traded or walked away from.

Then in the summer, they use those assets/cap to bring in bigger and tougher players and hopefully a cornerstone top 4 RHD. Both of which is easier said than done. They will have a turnover where they have roughly the same core of Tkachuk, Norris, Stutzle, Sanderson, Chabot, etc - but there is a big enough shakeup where 6-10 roster spots are completely changed.

senko is gone
kubalilk it really depends on what he wants as an extension, not like he is tearing it up this year and he has mainly received hate due to our cap crunch, if he comes back under 3 million im game tbh
bran we are probably walking away from (even though i think its a mistake)
kelly should be gone just in terms of a roster spot
chartier is gone even though he is effective just roster spot wise
hamonic must be gone (buyout or trade)

Tkachuk-Stutzle-Giroux
XXXX-Norris-Batherson
Kubalik-Pinto-Greig
XXXX-XXXX-Joseph (some combo of crookshank/kastelic/smejkal/jarventie/boucher maybe/macewen) (i want a defense first signing for our 4th line here in fa)

Sanderson-Zub
Chychrun-XXXX
Chabot-JBD

Korpisolo
Forsberg

so we do have 4-5 slots open (depending on kubalik) but 2-3 of them can and will most likely be filled internally.

We do need a top 4 defensive dman and a top 6 forward. Ideally with a focus on defense.

Someone like a:
Tanev
Martinez
Pesce
Dillon
Roy

Would be great with players like
Demelo
Miller
Scandella

being fallbacks

In terms of forwards we will most likely need to get one via the trade market as the forward FA market is very light. Most guys are either one foot into retirement or bottom 6 guys. The exceptions will have a bidding war/get overpaid

 

[frightenedinmatenum2]

senko is gone
kubalilk it really depends on what he wants as an extension, not like he is tearing it up this year and he has mainly received hate due to our cap crunch, if he comes back under 3 million im game tbh
bran we are probably walking away from (even though i think its a mistake)
kelly should be gone just in terms of a roster spot
chartier is gone even though he is effective just roster spot wise
hamonic must be gone (buyout or trade)

Tkachuk-Stutzle-Giroux
XXXX-Norris-Batherson
Kubalik-Pinto-Greig
XXXX-XXXX-Joseph (some combo of crookshank/kastelic/smejkal/jarventie/boucher maybe/macewen) (i want a defense first signing for our 4th line here in fa)

Sanderson-Zub
Chychrun-XXXX
Chabot-JBD

Korpisolo
Forsberg

so we do have 4-5 slots open (depending on kubalik) but 2-3 of them can and will most likely be filled internally.

We do need a top 4 defensive dman and a top 6 forward. Ideally with a focus on defense.

Someone like a:
Tanev
Martinez
Pesce
Dillon
Roy

Would be great with players like
Demelo
Miller
Scandella

being fallbacks

In terms of forwards we will most likely need to get one via the trade market as the forward FA market is very light. Most guys are either one foot into retirement or bottom 6 guys. The exceptions will have a bidding war/get overpaid

Staios will want to re-tool the team to be the kind of team he thinks can win a cup.

To do that, he needs cap flexibility and assets. The team has one of the worst combos of non-NHL prospects and draft picks in the entire league.

He does not have the luxury to choose who he should move to recoup that flexibility or those assets, because everybody is locked down long-term. Moving a player like Chabot or Norris and having it make any sense value wise would be very difficult.

That is why I suggest we might see players like Chychrun or Batherson moved. Those are players who likely return a 1st+++ and position Staios to have the cap flexibility and assets needed to go out and acquire roster players in the off-season when trade prices go down.

Add in the obvious moves like Kubalik, Tarasenko, etc - I think we could see a hugely different roster next season that is built around a core of Tkachuk, Stutzle, Giroux, Norris, Greig, Pinto, Sanderson, Chabot, Zub, and Hamonic.

 

[TeamRenzo]

Guess you weren't around in 92-93....aka pre-Jacques 1.0

I had the pleasure in person. At least we beat Montreal for the home opener but woof.
We were much much much worse than this team

But they were expected to be bad...really bad. This is a solid roster and they are underachieving big time.

 

[SensontheRush]

you guys realize the real problem is the core?

It should now be eye-opening just how out for lunch it turns out DJ was. Essentially, the heights our players have reached is purely of their own merit and without tutelage. "Hands off" is just another way of saying "do nothing", and DJ did nothing to help our players. The implications of this just can't be ignored.

 

[SensontheRush]

Staios will want to re-tool the team to be the kind of team he thinks can win a cup.

To do that, he needs cap flexibility and assets. The team has one of the worst combos of non-NHL prospects and draft picks in the entire league.

He does not have the luxury to choose who he should move to recoup that flexibility or those assets, because everybody is locked down long-term. Moving a player like Chabot or Norris and having it make any sense value wise would be very difficult.

That is why I suggest we might see players like Chychrun or Batherson moved. Those are players who likely return a 1st+++ and position Staios to have the cap flexibility and assets needed to go out and acquire roster players in the off-season when trade prices go down.

Add in the obvious moves like Kubalik, Tarasenko, etc - I think we could see a hugely different roster next season that is built around a core of Tkachuk, Stutzle, Giroux, Norris, Greig, Pinto, Sanderson, Chabot, Zub, and Hamonic.

Why the f*** are we trading a 1st liner on a sub $5m contract? In their PRIME? Are we going to use the return on that trade to *checks notes*... acquire a whole other 1st liner?

This is what insanity looks like.

 

[Agent Zuuuub]

It should now be eye-opening just how out for lunch it turns out DJ was. Essentially, the heights our players have reached is purely of their own merit and without tutelage. "Hands off" is just another way of saying "do nothing", and DJ did nothing to help our players. The implications of this just can't be ignored.

i think the "heights" our players reached was in a large part because DJ let them off the leash and let them play hockey that was good for them individually and made them happy but hurt the team.

DJ was put in a bad position, a rookie coach with no gravitas asked to coach a bunch of spoiled young players who make 10, 20 x what he does.

not to mention that he HAS to keep them happy because of the franchise and dorions insecurity of having to get the players to stay because previously everyone knew dorion was a loser and couldn't wait to leave.

 

[Micklebot]

I'd like to see us move Tank and get somebody like Connor Brown (from his time here), a penalty killing two way energy guy that plays in our middle 6.

Then get someone to upgrade MacEwen...

Tkachuk-Stü-Giroux
Brown type-Norris-Batherson
Greig-Pinto-Joseph
Kelly-Kastelic-upgrade (Branchise for now?)...


On d, I'm not sure what we'll do, the balance is off unless we play a LHD on the right, I'd like to get Kleven in the lineup eventually, but idk about Chabot with Chychrun.

Chabot-JBD
Sanderson-Zub
Chychrun-...

 

[Agent Zuuuub]

Giroux declining, Tarasenko gone, no blue chip prospects.

And Stutzle is the only guy you can feel confident about carrying his line.

Our top end could go from good to awful.