Proposal: Free agency edition Trade Rumours/Proposals [MOD - Stay on Topic] 5

[SensHulk]

Dorion had so much time to fix this mess, I feel like the solution he thought might work was either Matt Murray getting bought out or Pinto accepting to play for $1M, neither of which were not realistic (especially the latter). Really hoping for a miracle with that mindset vs being proactive

 

[Cosmix]

Will be disappointed if we trade Joseph or Branny over Kubalik.

Branny is perfect in his role as a 4/5D, can play both sides, and is on the PK. He is the ideal partner for Kleven next year or sooner. Wed only get a 2nd or 3rd rounder in return and dont have replacements in the system nor others available externally at the same price.

Joseph has a ton of speed, can play a limited top 6 role and score, can play the PK. $ is not an issue starting next year. Not to mention we’d have to give up a sweetener to trade him.

Kubalik just offers more of what we already have in Batherson + Tarasenko. Once Norris and Pinto are back, his spot on speciality teams will be non-existent. Plus we would likely get some draft capital in return. The fact that he just got here and who he was traded for shouldn’t even be considered.

The key with trading Kubalik is that his salary is $2.5M which should provide enough cap room to sign Pinto as his replacement on the roster for $2M and have $0.5M left for callups during the year.

 

[frightenedinmatenum2]

It could be Joseph for Ellis as the base of a trade.

Ellis is LTIRed for the next four seasons. There are major strategic advantages to dumping that contract.

The Senators shouldn't take on a 4 year LTIR contract, but their back is against the wall. Moving out Joseph for Ellis means they have to spend about 3.6M of cap before putting Ellis on LTIR in order to get the max available pool. 3.6M is enough to sign Pinto at 2M and recall two players who together total the closest possible to 1.6M. Put Ellis on LTIR, then they can send those players back down when eligible and recall their actual preferred scratches.

 

[Golden_Jet]

I'm not sure i agree. You don't put retained salary on LTIR, you put a player on LTIR, you get the ability to call up replacement player or players who's salary may not exceed the amount of the Player Salary and Bonuses of the unfit-to-play Player who the Club is replacing.

Retained salary is still the players salary, it's just permanently paid by the retaining team for the life of the retained salary spc,

I suppose it's all hypothetical until the NHL comes into the situation and has to interpret their own CBA, in the end, they may come to a conclusion different than you or I, not sure how often, if ever, teams reaquire players they've previously retained on, so it's unlikely to come up.

I think it’s correct, otherwise 2 teams are using the same cap space.
One team paying a retainment cost, the other shouldn’t get access to that money.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

Obviously a less than ideal situation but the strength on the blue line makes me more inclined to see Brannstrom move. It’s nice to have him as a player who can move up in the even of inevitable injuries but if he is playing sub 15 minutes most nights I think he is the more replaceable option.

I think our “strength on the blue line” is overblown. We have a fine top 4 with a pairing we have no idea can even play with eachother lol.

 

[Korpse]

I think our “strength on the blue line” is overblown. We have a fine top 4 with a pairing we have no idea can even play with eachother lol.

This is true. My point was more that if The top 4 are all playing 20-25 minutes a night, losing Brannstrom won’t have much of an impact. He played 10 minutes last game and with a healthy line up I’m not sure he is going to get more than 15 minutes a night.

 

[Dionysus]

Delete

 

[HSF]

This is true. My point was more that if The top 4 are all playing 20-25 minutes a night, losing Brannstrom won’t have much of an impact. He played 10 minutes last game and with a healthy line up I’m not sure he is going to get more than 15 minutes a night.

with injuries i rather have depth on defense than worry about a 3rd line winger. He is also a UFA

 

[The Devilish Buffoon]

With Eric Robinson (CLB) going on waivers, if he clears I wonder if there could be a trade around him & Kubalik.

Robinson is a big, fast, physical left handed LW. Averages about 13g and 29pts per 82. Makes $1.6m. If he clears, we could keep him in the A for a bit and only count $450k against the cap. He could also probably help us out. Hopefully we could also get a mid-rounder on top of him if we go that route.

 

[Dionysus]

Delete

 

[HSF]

Dorion had so much time to fix this mess, I feel like the solution he thought might work was either Matt Murray getting bought out or Pinto accepting to play for $1M, neither of which were not realistic (especially the latter). Really hoping for a miracle with that mindset vs being proactive

The obivous player to trade is Kubalik. Dorion probably does not want to get laughed at for getting Kubalik not that long ago and trade him. He probably does not want to trade Branny cause he got him for Stone. Joseph has term so teams wants a sweetner and is holding Dorion by the neck

I can't want to get a new GM who has no history with these players and will be unbiased when making moves

 

[Psycroptic86]

I'm on board for Kubalik going. Move Grieg to LW to keep him up with the big league.

 

[aragorn]

I'm on board for Kubalik going. Move Grieg to LW to keep him up with the big league.

Why would you trade Kubalik who they just traded for & had a 45 pt season last yr when Joseph is cleary the weakest link in the forward group for the money he makes? Once Norris & Pinto come back it's obvious that Chartier & Joseph should be the odd men out. Even Kelly IMO is more valuable than Joseph, he can do so much more, he's fast, he hits, he blocks shots, he's cheaper, he fights, he draws penalties which is great for a team with two good PP units & he plays on the PK. The downside with both Kubalik & Tarasenko is that they need a set-up guy, a playmaker to get them the puck in scoring positions, Batherson has setup Kubalik u pa few times & he just could not captitalize. but he will eventually.

 

[Psycroptic86]

Why would you trade Kubalik who they just traded for & had a 45 pt season last yr when Joseph is cleary the weakest link in the forward group for the money he makes? Once Norris & Pinto come back it's obvious that Chartier & Joseph should be the odd men out. Even Kelly IMO is more valuable than Joseph, he can do so much more, he's fast, he hits, he blocks shots, he's cheaper, he fights, he draws penalties which is great for a team with two good PP units & he plays on the PK. The downside with both Kubalik & Tarasenko is that they need a set-up guy, a playmaker to get them the puck in scoring positions, Batherson has setup Kubalik u pa few times & he just could not captitalize. but he will eventually.

Joseph is far from the weakest link on the team. Kubalik has been invisible both games now and they need the cap space to sign Pinto.

 

[frightenedinmatenum2]

Dorion is delaying this trade for as long as possible, because he knows he is only being kept around to take the blame for giving up a 1st round pick. A week after the trade, they will fire him and blame him for mismanaging the salary cap.

As far as we heard, Dorion was consulting the moves with Andlauer. The only way he gets a pass is if he straight up said to Andlauer, we can get Tarasenko for 5M, but it will probably cost us a major asset to move a player in order to sign Pinto. I suspect that didn't happen, because if it was a foregone conclusion that Tarasenko would cost the team a 1st (via having to pay to open up cap room for him), they would have made that trade earlier in the summer so that Pinto could have a full training camp.

With how thin this prospect pool is and how few picks this team has, giving up a 1st is absurd. I had no idea what Garrioch was going on about during the press release he made for the team at intermission.

Garrioch said something about the team having multiple picks so they can give up a 1st or a high pick...Capfriendly must be mistaken because Ottawa only has 1 extra pick this year. They also are 2 picks short in 2026. They only made 5 picks last year.

From 2022-2026, if they give up a 1st to dump a player, and they keep the rest of their picks, it means as of where they stand now they that will only have picked:
-3 times out of 4 1st round picks
-2 times out of 4 2nd round picks
-2 times out of 4 3rd round picks
-7 out of 12 picks in the top 3 rounds...they woudln't use almost half their picks over that time span.

It sure sounds like they are priming up to give up a 1st, and Garrioch will say how brilliant it was to negotiate down from Greig to the BOS 1st.

The way Ottawa is pushing so hard toward the roots of the franchise, I wonder if they give up two 1st round type pieces with Philadelphia sending back Bonk's kid along with some journeyman ECHLer from Carp that Dorion can say he sees as a big catch. That way, it's still BOS 1st+Joseph for nothing, but they swap 1st round tier assets.

 

[frightenedinmatenum2]

-2024 or 2025 or 2026 1st Round Pick (Conditional Protection)
-2024 4th Round Pick (Conditional, the best of Ottawa's three picks)
-Tyler Boucher (1st Round Tier Asset)
-Lassi Thomson (Throw in body, organizational depth for the Flyers)
-Mathieu Joseph (Cap Dump)


-Oliver Bonk (1st Round Tier Asset)
-Nick Seeler (Pretend he is from Carp)
-2024 5th Round Pick (Conditional, if Philadelphia acquires more than one 5th round pick, Ottawa receives the worst of the picks.)

Conditional protections on the 1st are that Ottawa can choose which pick they give up, they also receive top 10 protection on the pick if it is in 2024, or top 5 protection if the pick is in 2025, no protection if it is in 2026. Those options are needed due to how convoluted the Boston pick is and how much the value might swing depending on what happens with various teams not involved in the OTT/PHI trade.

That gives the Senators another NHL #7 type D in Seeler. Lassi goes the other way because the Flyers will need organizational depth. I doubt they would want JBD due to his contract.

We are assuming that they value Boucher more than Bonk, which may not be the case, but if it is true that they asked for Boucher or Greig, then they obviously value Boucher very highly for him to be seen as interchangeable with Greig.

The entire logic is, look if we're going to get raked over the coals, you have to give us a good story to distract from the optics of what we're doing. That story is that they bring in Oliver Bonk in exchange for a prospect who is one of the least popular prospects amongst hardcore fans, even if people in the hockey world view him much differently.

 

[aragorn]

Joseph is far from the weakest link on the team. Kubalik has been invisible both games now and they need the cap space to sign Pinto.

Another article claiming that Joseph & Brannstrom are the most likely to get moved out.

MSN

They are not trading a 45 pt player they just got for DBC.

 

[Duncstar]

Well I did watch last season and Brannstrom was OK. And he would be a reasonable partner with Kleven but certainly not an "ideal" partner. Brannstrom is a lightweight offensive player that does precious little in the way of offensive creation. But if the team can trade Kubalik instead of Brannstrom I'm OK with that as well. Bottom line is I want Pinto on the team and to do that somebody has to go.
P.S. It's "spelled" not "spelt".

Well played

 

[Mark Stones Spleen]

Well I did watch last season and Brannstrom was OK. And he would be a reasonable partner with Kleven but certainly not an "ideal" partner. Brannstrom is a lightweight offensive player that does precious little in the way of offensive creation. But if the team can trade Kubalik instead of Brannstrom I'm OK with that as well. Bottom line is I want Pinto on the team and to do that somebody has to go.
P.S. It's "spelled" not "spelt".

Well played

Spelled and spelt are both used in UK English.

 

[ottawagm]

If we are going to be paying to dump a player then we should try to pay a bit more and turn it into a hockey trade.

Joseph/Kubalik + either:

Brannstrom + 1st -> RHD
Brannstrom + Boucher + 1st + 2nd -> Konecny 50% + Seeler

 

[Burrowsaurus]

If we are going to be paying to dump a player then we should try to pay a bit more and turn it into a hockey trade.

Joseph/Kubalik + either:

Brannstrom + 1st -> RHD
Brannstrom + Boucher + 1st + 2nd -> Konecny 50% + Seeler

But then we still can’t sign pinto lol

 

[DueDiligence]

Spelled and spelt are both used in UK English.

I stand corrected!

 

[frightenedinmatenum2]

-Erik Brannstrom (2Mx1Y)
-Mathieu Joseph (2.95Mx3Y)
-2025 OTT 2nd Round Pick
-2026 OTT 3rd Round Pick
-2024 OTT 4th Round Pick



-Connor Murphy *Half Retained* (2.2Mx3Y)
-Boris Tkachuk (758kx1Y)
-2024 CGY 5th Round Pick

______

-The trade frees up 2M this season for Pinto.
-Connor Murphy, who is not very good will be the 6th-7th defenseman. Can possibly be waived, which would free up another few hundred k after replacing him with JBD or someone else.
-The cost to dump Brannstrom is a 3rd for a 5th. Which is probably what teams are asking from the Senators to take him.
-The cost to dump Joseph is a 2nd+4th.
-Boris Tkachuk is a throw-in to equal out the rosters. The family connections are enticing.

The primary purpose of taking back Connor Murphy is that Chicago might do it for less than a 1st because Murphy has term that matches Joseph's term. That makes 2.2M of the cap a sunk cost. They are really taking on 800k x 3 years, and burning a retention spot. They are also getting an actual bottom 6 NHL winger, where as Murphy is on his way out of the league.

The Senators can buyout Murphy in the off season, this will be cheaper than a Joseph buyout. Here is the Murphy buyout table from Capfriendly. Keep in mind, the Senators only pay half of the buyout due to retention, so it's 250k in year 1, 1.52M in year 2, and 650k in years 3 & 4.

SEASON	INITIAL BASE SALARY	INITIAL CAP HIT	SIGNING BONUS	BUYOUT COST	POST-BUYOUT EARNINGS	SAVINGS	CAP HIT ( CHI)
2024-25	$5,150,000	$4,400,000	$0	$1,300,000	$1,300,000	$3,850,000	$550,000
2025-26	$2,650,000	$4,400,000	$1,000,000	$1,300,000	$2,300,000	$1,350,000	$3,050,000
2026-27	$0	$0	$0	$1,300,000	$1,300,000	-$1,300,000	$1,300,000
2027-28	$0	$0	$0	$1,300,000	$1,300,000	-$1,300,000	$1,300,000
TOTAL	$7,800,000	$8,800,000	$1,000,000	$5,200,000	$6,200,000	$2,600,000	$6,200,000

 

[BankStreetParade]

Why does every one assume that we need to pay to get rid of a player like Joseph? And, even further, assume that we have to pay dearly to do so?

 

[Bileur]

Why does every one assume that we need to pay to get rid of a player like Joseph? And, even further, assume that we have to pay dearly to do so?

I guess everyone is assuming all the insiders are correct.