Proposal: Free agency edition Trade Rumours/Proposals [MOD - Stay on Topic] 5

[frightenedinmatenum2]

I know crossride is just stirring the soup, but it does make sense for Vegas. Whitecloud is redundant and it could get them compliant with a 21 player roster without having to go into LTI, so they could bank cap space. We would be compliant with a 21 player roster.

On paper, it makes sense. I don't think Whitecloud would have a lot of value or be easy to move. So JBD having no value is irrelevant.

Also, we never should have traded Bob Kudelski.

 

[Beech]

I know crossride is just stirring the soup, but it does make sense for Vegas. Whitecloud is redundant and it could get them compliant with a 21 player roster without having to go into LTI, so they could bank cap space. We would be compliant with a 21 player roster.

On paper, it makes sense. I don't think Whitecloud would have a lot of value or be easy to move. So JBD having no value is irrelevant.

Also, we never should have traded Bob Kudelski.

you got way too much time on your hands

 

[Loach]

I know crossride is just stirring the soup, but it does make sense for Vegas. Whitecloud is redundant and it could get them compliant with a 21 player roster without having to go into LTI, so they could bank cap space. We would be compliant with a 21 player roster.

On paper, it makes sense. I don't think Whitecloud would have a lot of value or be easy to move. So JBD having no value is irrelevant.

Also, we never should have traded Bob Kudelski.

Didn't Whitecloud and Chabot work at the worlds? Bob "f***n" Kudelski! Bravo sir!

 

[BondraTime]

Not sure I'd want to add Whitecloud, he's a 6/7 at close to 3 million for another 4 years

Better than JBD surely, but not a meaningful difference where we would be happy adding 2 million to the cap for the next 4 years

 

[Loach]

Not sure I'd want to add Whitecloud, he's a 6/7 at close to 3 million for another 4 years

Better than JBD surely, but not a meaningful difference where we would be happy adding 2 million to the cap for the next 4 years

Thanks. I didn't know the contract.

 

[Micklebot]

Not sure I'd want to add Whitecloud, he's a 6/7 at close to 3 million for another 4 years

Better than JBD surely, but not a meaningful difference where we would be happy adding 2 million to the cap for the next 4 years

I mean, he played 18:40 a night on a SC winning teams playoff run,

There's certainly some risk with the contract, but he's got the potential to be a good value contract.

To me, the bigger issue is I don't think we can make the cap work, we just don't have the space.

 

[Big Muddy]

I mean, he played 18:40 a night on a SC winning teams playoff run,

There's certainly some risk with the contract, but he's got the potential to be a good value contract.

To me, the bigger issue is I don't think we can make the cap work, we just don't have the space.

Yep, only $1.9 m of cap space with 21 players under contract apparently.

Ottawa Senators Contracts, Cap Hits and Salary Cap | Puckpedia

See the cap space, latest contracts, injury news, and transactions for the Ottawa Senators including salaries, cap hits, buyouts and draft picks on PuckPedia.

puckpedia.com

 

[BondraTime]

I mean, he played 18:40 a night on a SC winning teams playoff run,

There's certainly some risk with the contract, but he's got the potential to be a good value contract.

To me, the bigger issue is I don't think we can make the cap work, we just don't have the space.

He’s a bottom pairing/pressbox guy, like he was for them this year in the regular season and playoffs, they were terrified to have him out there in this years playoffs.

We can grab him and hope for him to become that guy, but it’s very likely he’d be an expensive player you could replace a guy like JBD and not miss much.

He got incredibly overrated from January 2022 through the 2022-23 playoffs.

We definitely can’t make the cap work, and adding a ~3 million dollar bottom of the lineup type player would be absolutely horrible for the Sens

He's likely to be out of the lineup a lot this year with Pietrangelo, Theodore and Korzcak signed to 1 way deals, he could potentially find himself on waivers, a guy who is out of the lineup a lot that's got a cap of 2.75 isn't appealing to a team like Vegas

McCrimmon has already stated that Korzcak will be a regular this coming season, barring a Theodore trade which is very possible, Whitecloud is just going to be an expensive pressbox/bottom pair guy, and if you're forced to play him in your top 4, I don't think you're very happy

 

[Alf Silfversson]

Not sure I'd want to add Whitecloud, he's a 6/7 at close to 3 million for another 4 years

Better than JBD surely, but not a meaningful difference where we would be happy adding 2 million to the cap for the next 4 years

Yup. He's better than JBD but I'd prefer to just have the cap flexibility of being able to move on from Bernard-Docker after this year if he doesn't up his game.

 

[frightenedinmatenum2]

He’s a bottom pairing/pressbox guy, like he was for them this year in the regular season and playoffs, they were terrified to have him out there in this years playoffs.

We can grab him and hope for him to become that guy, but it’s very likely he’d be an expensive player you could replace a guy like JBD and not miss much.

He got incredibly overrated from January 2022 through the 2022-23 playoffs.

We definitely can’t make the cap work, and adding a ~million dollar bottom of the lineup type player would be absolutely horrible for the Sens

The cap works but we would have to roll with a 21 player roster, which is far from ideal.

Puckpedia has us at 1.9M with 21 players, JBD out brings that up to 2.7M. So we'd have to find less than 50k somewhere by swapping a depth player for one who makes a bit less.

It makes more sense if it turns out that Hamonic will go on LTIR and won't be ready to start the season. It's still doable without that, it just requires some fiddling.

I don't think it makes sense to take that contract. So I agree with you there.

 

[Hale The Villain]

Whitecloud has been an excellent bottom pairing D for years. Wasn't as good in 23/24 as previous years, but 2.75M looked like a bargain for him before last season.

Only reason he hasn't played higher up in the lineup is because Vegas had the best D in the league, so it's a dumb criticism.

Having solid defensive D like Whitecloud on their bottom pair is part of why Vegas was able to win a cup without having elite offensive gamebreakers.

I was all for trading for him, but now we don't have the cap space and there's little reason for Vegas to trade him unless they are getting a good forward in return, which we don't have.

 

[BondraTime]

The cap works but we would have to roll with a 21 player roster, which is far from ideal.

Puckpedia has us at 1.9M with 21 players, JBD out brings that up to 2.7M. So we'd have to find less than 50k somewhere by swapping a depth player for one who makes a bit less.

It makes more sense if it turns out that Hamonic will go on LTIR and won't be ready to start the season. It's still doable without that, it just requires some fiddling.

I don't think it makes sense to take that contract. So I agree with you there.

Agreed, he's not very good, especially with that contract

 

[L'Aveuglette]

Yup. He's better than JBD but I'd prefer to just have the cap flexibility of being able to move on from Bernard-Docker after this year if he doesn't up his game.

Wait, people still think JBD can up his game?

 

[Alf Silfversson]

Wait, people still think JBD can up his game?

I mean, he improved last year. It's also completely normal for a defenseman with just over 100 NHL games under his belt to continue to improve.

 

[Good in Osgoode]

Wait, people still think JBD can up his game?

JBD just turned 24 and as mentioned, has played just over 100 games in the NHL.
For me, he reminds me of Demelo. Not at all flashy, just an all-around solid game.
I think that it would be a mistake for us to give up on this player, just like we did with Demelo.

 

[Cosmix]

Just read this interesting article on tax differences between Canadian teams and USA teams.

‘Anywhere but Canada’: How a tax ruling could hobble pro teams north of the border

The ruling on John Tavares' signing bonus could have far-reaching implications for future pros contemplating a deal with a Canadian team.

www.nytimes.com

 

[Cosmix]

I hated the trade the day it happened so not hindsight on my part. Had the same dislike when we signed Matt Murray. Was fading fast in Pittsburgh once Fleury went to Vegas. Some moves speak for themselves.


But who knows if he wouldn't have accepted less if Hossa was still in the line-up? That core wanted to win.

Web do know what he did do. The rest is conjecture.

If not for George Kennedy intervening when we tried to keep Sprague Cleghorn, Tommy Gorman would not have backed out from purchasing Frank Ahearn's share of the team, and they would have stayed at the Ottawa Auditorium well into the 1930s.

So, you are really old with a mind of a steel trap!

 

[Beech]

@BondraTime

what was the buzz around the 2018 draft and K'Andre Miller versus JBD?

The Sens gave up the #22 pick, to slide down 4 spots and to get a 2nd round pick, which is Johnny Tyc.

As of now, Miller is the 5th best D man of that class. And is a rock solid 2nd pair guy. JBD is a 6/7 Dman. And as of now, at best the 15th or so best D man of that class.

Was it just the Left shot versus right shot issue?

 

[Cosmix]

@BondraTime

what was the buzz around the 2018 draft and K'Andre Miller versus JBD?

The Sens gave up the #22 pick, to slide down 4 spots and to get a 2nd round pick, which is Johnny Tyc.

As of now, Miller is the 5th best D man of that class. And is a rock solid 2nd pair guy. JBD is a 6/7 Dman. And as of now, at best the 15th or so best D man of that class.

Was it just the Left shot versus right shot issue?

It was Dorion and his scouting staff!

 

[Bjornar Moxnes]

@BondraTime

what was the buzz around the 2018 draft and K'Andre Miller versus JBD?

The Sens gave up the #22 pick, to slide down 4 spots and to get a 2nd round pick, which is Johnny Tyc.

As of now, Miller is the 5th best D man of that class. And is a rock solid 2nd pair guy. JBD is a 6/7 Dman. And as of now, at best the 15th or so best D man of that class.

Was it just the Left shot versus right shot issue?

I am actually curious, who are your top 4 d above him?

I assume dahlin Hughes Bouchard and Dobson?

 

[Micklebot]

He’s a bottom pairing/pressbox guy, like he was for them this year in the regular season and playoffs, they were terrified to have him out there in this years playoffs.

We can grab him and hope for him to become that guy, but it’s very likely he’d be an expensive player you could replace a guy like JBD and not miss much.

He got incredibly overrated from January 2022 through the 2022-23 playoffs.

We definitely can’t make the cap work, and adding a ~3 million dollar bottom of the lineup type player would be absolutely horrible for the Sens

He's likely to be out of the lineup a lot this year with Pietrangelo, Theodore and Korzcak signed to 1 way deals, he could potentially find himself on waivers, a guy who is out of the lineup a lot that's got a cap of 2.75 isn't appealing to a team like Vegas

McCrimmon has already stated that Korzcak will be a regular this coming season, barring a Theodore trade which is very possible, Whitecloud is just going to be an expensive pressbox/bottom pair guy, and if you're forced to play him in your top 4, I don't think you're very happy

I mean, he still played 17 mins a night in the playoffs, for a team with as good a top 4 as Vegas has, if they were actually scared to put him out there, they could have shortened the bench more. For comparison, Florida shortened the bench giving Kulikov 13 mins a night, Dallas gave Lundqvist 4 mins a night and Petrovic 12,

@BondraTime

what was the buzz around the 2018 draft and K'Andre Miller versus JBD?

The Sens gave up the #22 pick, to slide down 4 spots and to get a 2nd round pick, which is Johnny Tyc.

As of now, Miller is the 5th best D man of that class. And is a rock solid 2nd pair guy. JBD is a 6/7 Dman. And as of now, at best the 15th or so best D man of that class.

Was it just the Left shot versus right shot issue?

Miller was seen as a more high risk high reward pick as I recall. Seen as a bit of a project.

He was the guy I wanted that draft, then we traded back... Oh well.

 

[BondraTime]

@BondraTime

what was the buzz around the 2018 draft and K'Andre Miller versus JBD?

The Sens gave up the #22 pick, to slide down 4 spots and to get a 2nd round pick, which is Johnny Tyc.

As of now, Miller is the 5th best D man of that class. And is a rock solid 2nd pair guy. JBD is a 6/7 Dman. And as of now, at best the 15th or so best D man of that class.

Was it just the Left shot versus right shot issue?

I have no clue if it was a left shot vs. right shot, I would assume they just had JBD higher on thier list, but I haved absolutely no clue one way or the other.

They in all likelyhood fell in love with him at the World Junior A tournament in Truro, so it was right in the wheelhouse of Mann and co in the Maritimes, and the Sens love Junior A in Canada.

They took 3 guys from Team West at that tournament in Truro in the 2018 draft in JBD, Tychonik and Crookshank.

It's my belief they became fixated from that tournament.

I mean, he still played 17 mins a night in the playoffs, for a team with as good a top 4 as Vegas has, if they were actually scared to put him out there, they could have shortened the bench more. For comparison, Florida shortened the bench giving Kulikov 13 mins a night, Dallas gave Lundqvist 4 mins a night and Petrovic 12,

Miller was seen as a more high risk high reward pick as I recall. Seen as a bit of a project.

He was the guy I wanted that draft, then we traded back... Oh well.

He played 15 mins a night in the playoffs, 13 a few times; only game he reached 17 was the one that went to 17 minutes of an OT, and he was also a healthy scratch for Ben Hutton, another guy they never wanted to play, in game 5.

Yeah, those guys are also bottom pairing/pressbox players you don't want out there. Petrovic was out of the league for 4 years until injuries forced him into Dallas' lineup, he has 1 regular season game from 2019-2024, and Lundqvist will be on waivers in no time.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Just read this interesting article on tax differences between Canadian teams and USA teams.

‘Anywhere but Canada’: How a tax ruling could hobble pro teams north of the border

The ruling on John Tavares' signing bonus could have far-reaching implications for future pros contemplating a deal with a Canadian team.

www.nytimes.com

They have a lot of things right, in the article, but some are wrong.
As pointed out Tavares was in Canada for more than a 183 days that year. That’s why he was denied the signing bonus tax discount.

The tax calculation is wrong, they make it sound like he only pays NY state taxes.
He pays taxes in all 32 tax jurisdictions in league. So probably paying taxes in 20+ states and provinces.
So players get the no tax state allowance in the states that have it, when games are played there.

 

[Beech]

I am actually curious, who are your top 4 d above him?

I assume dahlin Hughes Bouchard and Dobson?

yup

Dahlin is the best all around, while having an offensive edge
Dobson is the second best all around, while having an offensive edge

Hughes is the best offensive defenseman, with low defensive expectations
Bouchard is the second best offensive defenseman, with low/mid defensive expectations

Miller is the best all around, while having a defensive edge

Durzi floats in between.

1) Hughes
2) Dahlin
3) Bouchard
4) Dobson
5) Miller
6) Duruzi

then a drop off.. the 2018 draft is 6 dmen deep

 

[Bjornar Moxnes]

yup

Dahlin is the best all around, while having an offensive edge
Dobson is the second best all around, while having an offensive edge

Hughes is the best offensive defenseman, with low defensive expectations
Bouchard is the second best offensive defenseman, with low/mid defensive expectations

Miller is the best all around, while having a defensive edge

Durzi floats in between.

1) Hughes
2) Dahlin
3) Bouchard
4) Dobson
5) Miller
6) Duruzi

then a drop off.. the 2018 draft is 6 dmen deep

I feel dahlins defensive game is overrated af same goes for Dobson. Hughes has been better defensively than both imho.