Proposal: Free agency edition Trade Rumours/Proposals [MOD - Stay on Topic] 5

[Ice-Tray]

The most disgusting part of our rebuild was that we never utilized our cap space to acquire actual assets. Instead, we traded assets to acquire players with a higher cap hit than salary. Then you come on here and have the Dorion defenders tell you that you are overreacting.

I dunno, people were overreacting.

It was pretty obvious from the start of the rebuild that Melnyk’s goal was to save money. The plan was to save money through the rebuild and then spend it on the infamous ‘FYOUS’.

We were never going to ‘weaponize’ cap space, and were literally trying to spend under the cap floor at times.

It absolutely sucked, but some folks acted surprised when after each move as though it wasn’t obvious what we were doing. He’ll, management even came out and told us at times.

Whatever, everyone copes differently.

 

[2CHAINZ]

I dunno, people were overreacting.

It was pretty obvious from the start of the rebuild that Melnyk’s goal was to save money. The plan was to save money through the rebuild and then spend it on the infamous ‘FYOUS’.

We were never going to ‘weaponize’ cap space, and were literally trying to spend under the cap floor at times.

It absolutely sucked, but some folks acted surprised when after each move as though it wasn’t obvious what we were doing. He’ll, management even came out and told us at times.

Whatever, everyone copes differently.

So if anyone complains about that, it's overreacting? All fans should just accept that nonsense, not complain about it, and just move on? Also, we had people in here blaming fans for not spending money. Fans should spend their hard-earned money when our owner won't do anything to help the rebuild and our GM wastes our picks and limited budget on trash?

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

I think the part I had a hard time with was believing that it was going to come back around and was all going to be magical. I had no faith whatsoever in Melnyk. After everything we'd seen under him, it was hard to believe he'd be putting his money where his mouth was when push came to shove. Or that the other accompanying drama he brought wouldn't just mess it up anyways. Or that he'd get out of his own way long enough for it to go where it needed to go. Or that he'd hire the right people, or staff many positions at all. Or that we'd ever get a GM that wasn't internally promoted. Etc. etc.

I could never shake the assumption that it was all destined for failure had Melnyk continued to be the owner, which at the time seemed like that was likely going to be the case. I still fully believe that would have been the case. At least now we have a fighting chance.

 

[Ice-Tray]

So if anyone complains about that, it's overreacting? All fans should just accept that nonsense, not complain about it, and just move on? Also, we had people in here blaming fans for not spending money. Fans should spend their hard-earned money when our owner won't do anything to help the rebuild and our GM wastes our picks and limited budget on trash?

I think there are a ton of issues being lumped into one here to be honest.

The cheapskate overarch of the rebuild was lame, though telegraphed and expected, deserves a lot of complaining and annoyance because it sucks and doesn’t inspire confidence in creating a winning program.

Complaining, while annoying when incessant, is not necessarily the same as overreacting.

But there was a lot of overreacting about moves as though the goal was to acquire the best players, or the moves were attempts to help the team win, those were a bit much in my opinion. Like are we really supposed to be surprised when we know exactly the motives behind the moves we’re making? Of course things are going to seem dire when one thinks Gudbranson was acquired to help us win games.

The plan was clearly laid out for us. Doesn’t make it happy times, and it doesn’t mean every move was a masterpiece by any stretch, but it does provide insight into the ‘why’ of things which is important when evaluating individual moves. Again, not saying they didn’t suck a lot of the time, but given the circumstances some become more understandable.

I don’t take issue with how people spend their money, never have, nor do I feel like EM inspired any loyalty or respect from a fanbase that he wanted to profit off of.

As I said, much what was deemed ‘Dorion Defending’ was some posters trying to provide a little more of the ‘why’ moves were being made the way they were, instead of looking at each move through unrealistic expectations and goals.

Whatever…. I don’t really disagree with much of this post in the end. I guess I just get annoyed by being labelled a Dorion defender/bootlicker etc when I never really gave a shit about the guy, but found much of the faulty narratives offensive to my sensibilities.

Like, you wanna complain? Fine, but at least get what you’re complaining about right…. Clearly a personal and relatively unpopular crusade.

 

[Big Muddy]

^ LOL. Revisionist history.

I don't recall the lovers saying all that was happening is the owner is trying to ice a team with the lowest budget possible.

We were told it was a master plan that was working out wonderfully. The per usual proponents were constantly haranguing people about being bad fans. Some people in here should consider joining the Canadian dive team with these Olympic level back flips. LOL.

 

[2CHAINZ]

I think there are a ton of issues being lumped into one here to be honest.

The cheapskate overarch of the rebuild was lame, though telegraphed and expected, deserves a lot of complaining and annoyance because it sucks and doesn’t inspire confidence in creating a winning program.

Complaining, while annoying when incessant, is not necessarily the same as overreacting.

But there was a lot of overreacting about moves as though the goal was to acquire the best players, or the moves were attempts to help the team win, those were a bit much in my opinion. Like are we really supposed to be surprised when we know exactly the motives behind the moves we’re making? Of course things are going to seem dire when one thinks Gudbranson was acquired to help us win games.

The plan was clearly laid out for us. Doesn’t make it happy times, and it doesn’t mean every move was a masterpiece by any stretch, but it does provide insight into the ‘why’ of things which is important when evaluating individual moves. Again, not saying they didn’t suck a lot of the time, but given the circumstances some become more understandable.

I don’t take issue with how people spend their money, never have, nor do I feel like EM inspired any loyalty or respect from a fanbase that he wanted to profit off of.

As I said, much what was deemed ‘Dorion Defending’ was some posters trying to provide a little more of the ‘why’ moves were being made the way they were, instead of looking at each move through unrealistic expectations and goals.

Whatever…. I don’t really disagree with much of this post in the end. I guess I just get annoyed by being labelled a Dorion defender/bootlicker etc when I never really gave a shit about the guy, but found much of the faulty narratives offensive to my sensibilities.

Like, you wanna complain? Fine, but at least get what you’re complaining about right…. Clearly a personal and relatively unpopular crusade.

I think regardless of our internal cap, Dorion made plenty of mistakes despite the limited budget he had, and any criticism he got was warranted. The situation sucked, but fans had every right to be angry and complain. Things are looking better, and I hope they continue to get better with this team. I think that is something everyone can agree on.

 

[GCK]

I think regardless of our internal cap, Dorion made plenty of mistakes despite the limited budget he had, and any criticism he got was warranted. The situation sucked, but fans had every right to be angry and complain. Things are looking better, and I hope they continue to get better with this team. I think that is something everyone can agree on.

Dorion made bad moves once he had control over hockey moves last summer. Melnyk crippled the team and Dorion was a result of that. I give Dorion a pass until last off season.

 

[2CHAINZ]

Dorion made bad moves once he had control over hockey moves last summer. Melnyk crippled the team and Dorion was a result of that. I give Dorion a pass until last off season.

Nah, I don't give him a pass. He wasted what limited budget he had; just look at the Mark Stone debacle. Why not trade him that off-season and take on cap dump salaries with the $7 million you gave him, then flip those at that deadline? You get maximum value for Stone and assets to take on dumps. This isn't using hindsight; it was obvious from the jump.

 

[GCK]

Nah, I don't give him a pass. He wasted what limited budget he had; just look at the Mark Stone debacle. Why not trade him that off-season and take on cap dump salaries with the $7 million you gave him, then flip those at that deadline? You get maximum value for Stone and assets to take on dumps. This isn't using hindsight; it was obvious from the jump.

I don’t believe Dorion had the freedom to move him, everything needed to go through Eugene.

 

[2CHAINZ]

I don’t believe Dorion had the freedom to move him, everything needed to go through Eugene.

Ok, if we are just going to chalk everything up to Melnyk, then ok, Dorion wasn't bad; it was all Melynk. Yet after Melynk died, Dorion still botched everything, so I simply can't chalk everything up to Melynk when the sample size without Melnyk was terrible. Look at the DeBrincat trade I thought that was great and a good gamble Then, after we lose DeBrincat, you find out Dorion asked Chicago to talk contract and they said no. You give them our first rd pick when they tell you no? What kind of idiot GM gives up that good of a pick when he is basically being told DeBrincat won't talk contract with us? The sample size with Melynk around is bad The sample size without Mellnyk was bad, plain and simple Dorion was bad.

 

[GCK]

Ok, if we are just going to chalk everything up to Melnyk, then ok, Dorion wasn't bad; it was all Melynk. Yet after Melynk died, Dorion still botched everything, so I simply can't chalk everything up to Melynk when the sample size without Melnyk was terrible. Look at the DeBrincat trade I thought that was great and a good gamble Then, after we lose DeBrincat, you find out Dorion asked Chicago to talk contract and they said no. You give them our first rd pick when they tell you no? What kind of idiot GM gives up that good of a pick when he is basically being told DeBrincat won't talk contract with us? The sample size with Melynk around is bad The sample size without Mellnyk was bad, plain and simple Dorion was bad.

Like I said, I give Dorion on a pass until he had control at which point he showed he was not capable of doing the job.

 

[BankStreetParade]

Oh look, they’re re-litigating the Melnyk and Dorion years. What a surprise! I’m excited to find out how they blame @swiftwin for this one

 

[2CHAINZ]

Oh look, they’re re-litigating the Melnyk and Dorion years. What a surprise! I’m excited to find out how they blame @swiftwin for this one

Omg people are talking the situation the Senators are currently in which is a compound of the history of Dorion and Melnyk. Omg they need to let it go omg. Overreaction omg. Move on omg. Bank sorry to talk ill of your daddies.

 

[frightenedinmatenum2]

Nah, I don't give him a pass. He wasted what limited budget he had; just look at the Mark Stone debacle. Why not trade him that off-season and take on cap dump salaries with the $7 million you gave him, then flip those at that deadline? You get maximum value for Stone and assets to take on dumps. This isn't using hindsight; it was obvious from the jump.

Brady was going to go back to College if the Senators stripped the lineup in the summer. That is part of the reason why they kept Stone that offseason and brought in an top 6 forward in Boedker (lol). They needed to show the Tkachuk patriarch that his son's development was not at risk of being ruined.

There was also a season ticket aspect.

The bottom line is that the rebuild wasn't really about building the best team possible. They weren't really in a position to do that. It was a productive way to try and market slashing the budget to season ticket holders as being a productive thing and not something that was forced. You typically don't have rebuilding teams way below the cap giving up assets for cost friendly players, or for teams to take money from them.

We started our rebuild with more major assets to sell off than LAK, Arizona, Montreal, Chicago (when taking their NMCs into account), etc - yet in terms of how well we did accruing pieces, we did the worst out of all those teams because we weren't in a position to leverage the salary cap, and we also had to burn assets to try and be as competitive as possible. Remember, the rebuild was over 2 years ago or something, right?

 

[Agent Zuuuub]

lots of insecure people now that dorion effectively killed his own career at 51.

i guess i would be insecure too if went to bat for a clear imposter so aggressively.

 

[Pierre from Orleans]

Oh look, they’re re-litigating the Melnyk and Dorion years. What a surprise! I’m excited to find out how they blame @swiftwin for this one

If you get excited about that then you need a real hobby my dude.

 

[bert]

Omg people are talking the situation the Senators are currently in which is a compound of the history of Dorion and Melnyk. Omg they need to let it go omg. Overreaction omg. Move on omg. Bank sorry to talk ill of your daddies.

All they did was completely blow a 7 year rebuild and now the team still stinks. Why would we ever talk about that?!

 

[Big Muddy]

Oh look, they’re re-litigating the Melnyk and Dorion years. What a surprise! I’m excited to find out how they blame @swiftwin for this one

The team is floundering and doing poorly. This is a CURRENT event. It's not surprising that people are talking about how we ended up in this mess.

 

[Icelevel]

We’ve yet to recover and might never recover from giving away Stone and Zibanejad.

As good as our young players are we still have no one as good as either and that may never change. (Put those two on our team now and they are our top two players. And we gave them away. Worse than chara although similar impact)

That was seriously crippling. The worst of all was not firing him after those moves.

 

[Micklebot]

We’ve yet to recover and might never recover from giving away Stone and Zibanejad.

As good as our young players are we still have no one as good as either and that may never change. (Put those two on our team now and they are our top two players. And we gave them away. Worse than chara although similar impact)

That was seriously crippling. The worst of all was not firing him after those moves.

Interesting timing for this,

Stützle is on pace for 106 pts, which would be higher than either guys career high, and at a significantly younger age.

Tkachuk is pacing at 48 goals, again, higher than either guys career high though Zibanejad did have a year he paced higher, and 72 pts.

Meanwhile, Zibanejad and Stone are currently pacing 67 and 62 pts respectively

What happens if we put Stü and Tkachuk on teams that are clicking on all cylinders, and play as a 5 man unit? Are you trying to suggest they'd be worse player, produce less?

Grass is always greener on the other side I guess, but we have some pretty special players imo,

 

[Alf Silfversson]

All they did was completely blow a 7 year rebuild and now the team still stinks. Why would we ever talk about that?!

Buddy. You are only allowed to talk about the team when things are good. You didn't know that? Then after a win you get a bunch of "I told you sos" from the EVERYTHING IS FINE regulars.

It's right there in the terms of service.

 

[Bileur]

Buddy. You are only allowed to talk about the team when things are good. You didn't know that? Then after a win you get a bunch of "I told you sos" from the EVERYTHING IS FINE regulars.

It's right there in the terms of service.

Even when things are bad, you have to scrape the bottom of the barrel to find the silver linings and moral victories and talk about those.

 

[Icelevel]

Interesting timing for this,

Stützle is on pace for 106 pts, which would be higher than either guys career high, and at a significantly younger age.

Tkachuk is pacing at 48 goals, again, higher than either guys career high though Zibanejad did have a year he paced higher, and 72 pts.

Meanwhile, Zibanejad and Stone are currently pacing 67 and 62 pts respectively

What happens if we put Stü and Tkachuk on teams that are clicking on all cylinders, and play as a 5 man unit? Are you trying to suggest they'd be worse player, produce less?

Grass is always greener on the other side I guess, but we have some pretty special players imo,

So you only look at stats eh?

The question is..In playoff games over the last 5 years including this one who are you putting out there if you have to choose between Zibanejad and Stone OR Tkachuk and Stutzle?

Take a look at Zib and Stone’s playoff stats to remind yourself.

 

[Ice-Tray]

Even when things are bad, you have to scrape the bottom of the barrel to find the silver linings and moral victories and talk about those.

Eh, I mean why not? There is enough misery and divisiveness elsewhere in the world, why let it seep into the escapism outlet that is supposed to take us away from all of that?

Just kidding!! Humans are going to human…

So you only look at stats eh?

The question is..In playoff games over the last 5 years including this one who are you putting out there if you have to choose between Zibanejad and Stone OR Tkachuk and Stutzle?

Take a look at Zib and Stone’s playoff stats to remind yourself.

Still wouldn’t take those two over Brady and Stu though. Would you?

 

[2CHAINZ]

Brady was going to go back to College if the Senators stripped the lineup in the summer. That is part of the reason why they kept Stone that offseason and brought in an top 6 forward in Boedker (lol). They needed to show the Tkachuk patriarch that his son's development was not at risk of being ruined.

There was also a season ticket aspect.

The bottom line is that the rebuild wasn't really about building the best team possible. They weren't really in a position to do that. It was a productive way to try and market slashing the budget to season ticket holders as being a productive thing and not something that was forced. You typically don't have rebuilding teams way below the cap giving up assets for cost friendly players, or for teams to take money from them.

We started our rebuild with more major assets to sell off than LAK, Arizona, Montreal, Chicago (when taking their NMCs into account), etc - yet in terms of how well we did accruing pieces, we did the worst out of all those teams because we weren't in a position to leverage the salary cap, and we also had to burn assets to try and be as competitive as possible. Remember, the rebuild was over 2 years ago or something, right?

I mean, was anyone dumb enough to actually believe we were trying to be competitive? The writing was on the wall, and the 1-year deal with Stone was so obvious that he was going to be traded at the deadline.

All they did was completely blow a 7 year rebuild and now the team still stinks. Why would we ever talk about that?!

No, we are overreacting; everything is fine and glorious.

The team is floundering and doing poorly. This is a CURRENT event. It's not surprising that people are talking about how we ended up in this mess.

Only the morally inferior talk about Dorion and Melnyk and the moves that got us where we are.

We’ve yet to recover and might never recover from giving away Stone and Zibanejad.

As good as our young players are we still have no one as good as either and that may never change. (Put those two on our team now and they are our top two players. And we gave them away. Worse than chara although similar impact)

That was seriously crippling. The worst of all was not firing him after those moves.

I disagree with your take. If we kept Stone and Zibanejad, we likely would not have Sanderson and Stutzle today, and I would rather have Sanderson and Stutzle. I am fine with losing them; however, I will criticize how they were moved and what we got for them until I die. I already shared my thoughts on the Stone debacle. Now with Zibanejad, which was another atrocious move, which is even more disgraceful because Zibanejad committed to Ottawa and hockey that off-season. Zibanejad stayed in Ottawa to work on his game and not spend the off-season dropping Molly and Djing. After he makes that commitment to the team and to being a professional athlete, you trade him away? I already know what's coming from the brain trust gang "We went on that amazing run!" Sure, but would Zibanejad have stopped us from going on that run or helped us beat the Penguins? He did get injured and only played 56 games; he had 14 goals and 23 assists in those games. Brassard played 81 games and had 14 goals, 25 assists, and 39 points. Did Brassard really put us over the top for that run?

It's been awhile, and I could be wrong. It may have been the year before Zibanejad committed to Ottawa and hockey, but I believe it was that off-season.