Proposal: Free agency edition Trade Rumours/Proposals [MOD - Stay on Topic] 5

[DJB]

So basically it sounds like we are offering some sort of version of Korpi + Chych + 25 to anyone with a goalie who will listen?

 

[Cosmix]

Was a massive mistake by Briere to not sell high on Laughton when teams were offering ridiculous overpayments for him.

Same goes for trying to bend the Sens over asking for a 1st to "take on" Joseph's completely reasonable contract.

If Laughton is traded now I suspect it'd be in a player-for-player swap so Briere can save face.

Perhaps Laughton for Brannstrom?

 

[Icelevel]

So basically it sounds like we are offering some sort of version of Korpi + Chych + 25 to anyone with a goalie who will listen?

Korpi chychrun and ej emery return better be a damn good goalie.

I don’t hate korpi (being optimistic he comes back much more consistent) so to me that is a big package.

 

[Tuna99]

sign Josh Brown 2yrs x $1.5 million
Sign Stephan Noessen 3yrs x $2 million

Ott: Christian Dvorak
Mtl: Mathieu Joseph

Cal: Jacob Chychryn, 7th overall, Anton Forsebrg
Ott: Jacob Markstrom, Rasmus Andersen


Tkachuk - Pinto - Batherson
Norris - Stu - G
Greig - Dvorak - Noessen
Kelly - Kastelic - Ostapchuk/ Tyler Boucher

Sanderson - Anderssen
Chabot - Zub
Kleven - J. Brown
JBD

Markstrom
Goalie #2 whatever that needs to be cap wise

This is a playoff team

 

[bicboi64]

sign Josh Brown 2yrs x $1.5 million

Helllll naw to Josh Brown. He was trash when he was here and wasn't anything special for the Yotes. Might as well give JBD a chance instead.

 

[frightenedinmatenum2]

So basically it sounds like we are offering some sort of version of Korpi + Chych + 25 to anyone with a goalie who will listen?

That's a tough pill to swallow. It shows how desperate they are to compete this season before the Bradypocalypse next year.

If they were to pull off that deal and end up with a secondary type goalie like Markstrom, it would be astounding how much we gave up over the last 3 years for basically nothing.

7+12+39+44+49+72+2026 2nd+2026 4th
For
1 year of Debrincat (no playoffs)
1 year of Kubalik (no playoffs)
1 year of Chychrun (no playoffs)
112th OA Pick
A goalie (Markstrom?)

We gave up what almost amounts to two full drafts for rentals and whoever we get in net.

I was never a big Dorion hater, but the guy destroyed this franchise so that whoever took over after him had no reasonable path to success. They were either going to win with his team, or he was going to be fired and whoever took over was going to look very bad because of the mess he created. It's brilliant.

 

[ottawagm]

Don't know why I was dreaming of hockey trades, but I had one last night where Karlsson came back to Ottawa and Tkachuk and Norris went to Carolina in a package that included Svechnikov.

I seemed happy with whatever it was overall. You heard it here first if it happens!

 

[DueDiligence]

That's a tough pill to swallow. It shows how desperate they are to compete this season before the Bradypocalypse next year.

If they were to pull off that deal and end up with a secondary type goalie like Markstrom, it would be astounding how much we gave up over the last 3 years for basically nothing.

7+12+39+44+49+72+2026 2nd+2026 4th
For
1 year of Debrincat (no playoffs)
1 year of Kubalik (no playoffs)
1 year of Chychrun (no playoffs)
112th OA Pick
A goalie (Markstrom?)

We gave up what almost amounts to two full drafts for rentals and whoever we get in net.

I was never a big Dorion hater, but the guy destroyed this franchise so that whoever took over after him had no reasonable path to success. They were either going to win with his team, or he was going to be fired and whoever took over was going to look very bad because of the mess he created. It's brilliant.

Why should Staios care about what happened before he arrived? Actually why should any of us care? It is what it is and you can't do anything to change it. He and the rest of the management team have to do whatever it takes to move forward and can't be governed by what the cost was to make prior moves.) For example , Chychrun, Brannstrom and Joseph will all return less than what the Sens initially paid for them but that doesn't matter now.

 

[aragorn]

sign Josh Brown 2yrs x $1.5 million
Sign Stephan Noessen 3yrs x $2 million

Ott: Christian Dvorak
Mtl: Mathieu Joseph

Cal: Jacob Chychryn, 7th overall, Anton Forsebrg
Ott: Jacob Markstrom, Rasmus Andersen


Tkachuk - Pinto - Batherson
Norris - Stu - G
Greig - Dvorak - Noessen
Kelly - Kastelic - Ostapchuk/ Tyler Boucher

Sanderson - Anderssen
Chabot - Zub
Kleven - J. Brown
JBD

Markstrom
Goalie #2 whatever that needs to be cap wise

This is a playoff team

Get the 9th OA back for Ott or give them the 25th OA instead, we can't afford to lose a top 10 pick.

 

[HoweHullOrr]

To Cal: 7th OA, Korpisalo G, Joseph LW/RW ($6.950 mil out)
To Ott: 9th OA, Markstrom G & Miromanov RD ($7.250 mil in) - difference $.300K

To Wash: Chychrun LD ($4.6 mil out) - Chychrun becomes Wash top pairing LD
To Ott: Strome C/LW ($5 mil in) - difference $.4K - Strome becomes Ott 1st/2nd line C

Sign UFA: Daniel Sprong RW
Draft 9th OA: Carter Yakemchuk RD
Out: Kubalik LW & Brannstron LD ($4.5 mil)
- Ott adds 4 vets, 3 are 27 yrs old & none of these 3 have NT/NMC

Tkachuk - Norris - Batherson
Stutzle - Strome ($5) - Sprong ($3)
Greig - Pinto ($4) - Giroux
Ostapchuk - Kastelic - Kelly = $52.3 mil

Chabot - Zub
Sanderson - Miromanov
Kleven - JBD/Hamonic - $25 mil

Markstrom - Forsberg/Sogaard - $8.7 mil = $86 mil
- Hamonic & Forsberg ($3.8 mil) are gone after the season, if not sooner

Miromanov firmly established himself in their top 4 since coming over from Vegas. He is also on an absurd contract if he continues to play in that role (1.25M x 2 years).

I don't think Joseph has a lot of value despite how much people here like him. I could see him going for anywhere from a 2nd, 3rd, or 4th round pick.

Strome for Chychrun is a very interesting suggestion, but I don't think they Capitals can get away with trading away a C.

Ya, I doubt Calgary would do that trade.

Yes, the Chychrun trade to the Capitals is novel and hence interesting I suppose.

Ostensibly, for some in here, Calgary’s role is to bail out the Senators and has become a favourite trading partner and solution to our problems.

 

[Micklebot]

That's a tough pill to swallow. It shows how desperate they are to compete this season before the Bradypocalypse next year.

If they were to pull off that deal and end up with a secondary type goalie like Markstrom, it would be astounding how much we gave up over the last 3 years for basically nothing.

7+12+39+44+49+72+2026 2nd+2026 4th
For
1 year of Debrincat (no playoffs)
1 year of Kubalik (no playoffs)
1 year of Chychrun (no playoffs)
112th OA Pick
A goalie (Markstrom?)

We gave up what almost amounts to two full drafts for rentals and whoever we get in net.

I was never a big Dorion hater, but the guy destroyed this franchise so that whoever took over after him had no reasonable path to success. They were either going to win with his team, or he was going to be fired and whoever took over was going to look very bad because of the mess he created. It's brilliant.

Past trades are sunk costs, you can't live in the past if you're going to make the right decisions for today.

We need a goalie, ideally one that will solidify the position the way Anderson did for over a decade all of 15 years ago. If we can make that happen for a late first and Chychrun, while also dumping a bad contract with 16 mil left on the books, then that's not desperate, it's just common sense.

I don't think we'd offer that much for Markstrom since he's more of a short term solution. I guess we'll have to wait and see.

 

[frightenedinmatenum2]

Why should Staios care about what happened before he arrived? Actually why should any of us care? It is what it is and you can't do anything to change it. He and the rest of the management team have to do whatever it takes to move forward and can't be governed by what the cost was to make prior moves.) For example , Chychrun, Brannstrom and Joseph will all return less than what the Sens initially paid for them but that doesn't matter now.

The point is not that they should have a sunk-cost fallacy.

The point is that they must be desperate to compete if as an asset poor team with an unproven roster, they are willing to give up that kind of value to dump Korpisalo and get an upgrade in net. As in, there must be outside forces prompting them to make that kind of move, because typically a team that has missed the playoffs for 7 years straight in the middle of what has been a failed rebuild would not be dumping even more assets to try and make the roster work after already giving away what amounts to two drafts.

I agree with you on the sunk cost fallacy aspect.

Past trades are sunk costs, you can't live in the past if you're going to make the right decisions for today.

We need a goalie, ideally one that will solidify the position the way Anderson did for over a decade all of 15 years ago. If we can make that happen for a late first and Chychrun, while also dumping a bad contract with 16 mil left on the books, then that's not desperate, it's just common sense.

I don't think we'd offer that much for Markstrom since he's more of a short term solution. I guess we'll have to wait and see.

The point is more centred around the assessment that we should burn even more assets to try and fix a failing team. If the above proposal is true, it's a tough pill to swallow that we're possibly giving up what amounts two two first round picks+ to upgrade Korpisalo to a goalie like Markstrom or another goalie, when this team is already far away from contending, and Markstrom or another NHL starter does nothing to guarantee us a playoff spot/Brady staying.

The result of this approach might be that instead of a 2-3 year retool, we're going to be looking at another 5-10 year rebuild.

I understand why they can't exactly just lay down and die, and they have to try and convince Brady+Giroux we can win, but looking at the big picture it's a tough pill to swallow. I've sat through almost a decade of pointless hockey as a fan and I can see how this approach could lead to another 5-10 years of BS because the foundation of the team is flawed.

 

[BigRig4]

Sign Tanev + Toffoli, flip Chych for a goalie = playoffs

 

[Micklebot]

The point is more centred around the assessment that we should burn even more assets to try and fix a failing team. If the above proposal is true, it's a tough pill to swallow that we're possibly giving up what amounts two two first round picks+ to upgrade Korpisalo to a goalie like Markstrom or another goalie, when this team is already far away from contending, and Markstrom or another NHL starter does nothing to guarantee us a playoff spot/Brady staying.

The result of this approach might be that instead of a 2-3 year retool, we're going to be looking at another 5-10 year rebuild.

I understand why they can't exactly just lay down and die, and they have to try and convince Brady+Giroux we can win, but looking at the big picture it's a tough pill to swallow. I've sat through almost a decade of pointless hockey as a fan and I can see how this approach could lead to another 5-10 years of BS because the foundation of the team is flawed.

There's a few assumptions here that I don't necessarily agree with.

1. We aren't burning assets to fix a failing team, we are using assets to address needs.
2. I think most people exaggerate the gap between teams. This is a league built off parity, that's why a team like NJD can go from 63pts one year, to 112 the next and back down to 81 a year later. Goaltending is one of the biggest factors, followed by health. We've been on the wrong end of one or both factors ever since Anderson retired.
3. A 2-3 year retool gets you nowhere if you don't solidify the goaltending, it's a non-negotiable. Without a good goaltending, even the elite teams are at risk for early exists and missing playoffs. This is a problem that doesn't just go away, whether we address it today, or in 3 years, it needs to be addressed. If we don't address goaltending, you can expect 10 years of misery, because unless we land the next McDavid crap goaltending won't cut it.

I'm not suggesting Markstrom is the answer, certainly not at the price suggested, but he also shouldn't cost that much (can't think of any goalie who has gotten that much particularly not at that age).

 

[Qward]

sign Josh Brown 2yrs x $1.5 million
Sign Stephan Noessen 3yrs x $2 million

Ott: Christian Dvorak
Mtl: Mathieu Joseph

Cal: Jacob Chychryn, 7th overall, Anton Forsebrg
Ott: Jacob Markstrom, Rasmus Andersen


Tkachuk - Pinto - Batherson
Norris - Stu - G
Greig - Dvorak - Noessen
Kelly - Kastelic - Ostapchuk/ Tyler Boucher

Sanderson - Anderssen
Chabot - Zub
Kleven - J. Brown
JBD

Markstrom
Goalie #2 whatever that needs to be cap wise

This is a playoff team

You are suppose to hide the joke in the middle/end

 

[HoweHullOrr]

There's a few assumptions here that I don't necessarily agree with.

1. We aren't burning assets to fix a failing team, we are using assets to address needs.
2. I think most people exaggerate the gap between teams. This is a league built off parity, that's why a team like NJD can go from 63pts one year, to 112 the next and back down to 81 a year later. Goaltending is one of the biggest factors, followed by health. We've been on the wrong end of one or both factors ever since Anderson retired.
3. A 2-3 year retool gets you nowhere if you don't solidify the goaltending, it's a non-negotiable. Without a good goaltending, even the elite teams are at risk for early exists and missing playoffs. This is a problem that doesn't just go away, whether we address it today, or in 3 years, it needs to be addressed. If we don't address goaltending, you can expect 10 years of misery, because unless we land the next McDavid crap goaltending won't cut it.

I'm not suggesting Markstrom is the answer, certainly not at the price suggested, but he also shouldn't cost that much (can't think of any goalie who has gotten that much particularly not at that age).

I’m not Nostradamus, but I would be pleasantly surprised to see us jump up to 112 points (or close to 112) with just the addition of a better goalie, especially if its a goalie that is realistically and likely available to us given real world circumstances. I think our problems are much more than just bad goaltending.

As for the health and injuries, there is always injuries. We might do a little better in that dept., but I’m still expecting some injuries. Good teams seem to be able to overcome this factor.

Having said this, I would be very happy to be wrong about this.

 

[scallionjj11]

sign Josh Brown 2yrs x $1.5 million
Sign Stephan Noessen 3yrs x $2 million

Ott: Christian Dvorak
Mtl: Mathieu Joseph

Cal: Jacob Chychryn, 7th overall, Anton Forsebrg
Ott: Jacob Markstrom, Rasmus Andersen


Tkachuk - Pinto - Batherson
Norris - Stu - G
Greig - Dvorak - Noessen
Kelly - Kastelic - Ostapchuk/ Tyler Boucher

Sanderson - Anderssen
Chabot - Zub
Kleven - J. Brown
JBD

Markstrom
Goalie #2 whatever that needs to be cap wise

This is a playoff team

Please don't mention Josh Brown's name when regarding the Ottawa Senators. My god he was horrible here.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

So basically it sounds like we are offering some sort of version of Korpi + Chych + 25 to anyone with a goalie who will listen?

Define “it sounds like”.

This is essentially attaching chych and a first to get rid of Korpi lol

 

[aragorn]

Ya, I doubt Calgary would do that trade.

Yes, the Chychrun trade to the Capitals is novel and hence interesting I suppose.

Ostensibly, for some in here, Calgary’s role is to bail out the Senators and has become a favourite trading partner and solution to our problems.

If you replace Korpisalo with Chychrun to Calgary would that work?

 

[frightenedinmatenum2]

Maybe it's not too late to relocate this roster to Utah, and we can take the expansion draft in 2 years.

It would be a nice break to focus on some hobbies, and we'd get a fresh start.

Who do we call to get it done?

 

[HoweHullOrr]

To Cal: 7th OA, Korpisalo G, Joseph LW/RW ($6.950 mil out)
To Ott: 9th OA, Markstrom G & Miromanov RD ($7.250 mil in) - difference $.300K

To Wash: Chychrun LD ($4.6 mil out) - Chychrun becomes Wash top pairing LD
To Ott: Strome C/LW ($5 mil in) - difference $.4K - Strome becomes Ott 1st/2nd line C

Sign UFA: Daniel Sprong RW
Draft 9th OA: Carter Yakemchuk RD
Out: Kubalik LW & Brannstron LD ($4.5 mil)
- Ott adds 4 vets, 3 are 27 yrs old & none of these 3 have NT/NMC

Tkachuk - Norris - Batherson
Stutzle - Strome ($5) - Sprong ($3)
Greig - Pinto ($4) - Giroux
Ostapchuk - Kastelic - Kelly = $52.3 mil

Chabot - Zub
Sanderson - Miromanov
Kleven - JBD/Hamonic - $25 mil

Markstrom - Forsberg/Sogaard - $8.7 mil = $86 mil
- Hamonic & Forsberg ($3.8 mil) are gone after the season, if not sooner

If you replace Korpisalo with Chychrun to Calgary would that work?

Yes, I think that would be a lot more appealing to Calgary than the initial trade proposal post.

7th overall plus Joseph from Ottawa was at least close to equal value to the 9th overall and Miromanov from Calgary (maybe even slight overpayment from Ottawa). But, I thought that Korpisalo’s inclusion reduced the trade too much from Calgary’s perspective.

On Pinto’s next contract, if the Senators are wanting to sign Pinto to a contract with considerable term as rumours have suggested, I think $4 m will be low. I guess it depends on whether what’s been mentioned in the media is accurate.

Edit: If Calgary is rebuilding, then I don’t think Chychrun is the kind of player they target. They’ll want picks or good prospects. The 7th overall is in-line with that versus the other pieces in the trade.

 

[frightenedinmatenum2]

Someone like Knight or Gustavsson is looking better to me as a half measure if the goalie market is going to be wacky enough that people are actually talking about a 1st and a top prospect for Markstrom, or NJD's 10th pick.

Maybe roll the dice on Driedger as a UFA? He's not coming cheap with how the goalie market is, but he also won't cost real starter money.

I understand why there is pressure for them to solidify the position because they absolutely need to make the playoffs this year, but I guess I'm just over it. I see it as delaying the inevitable and putting us in a worse position next off season when we probably have to do a major re-tool.

 

[Micklebot]

I’m not Nostradamus, but I would be pleasantly surprised to see us jump up to 112 points (or close to 112) with just the addition of a better goalie, especially if its a goalie that is realistically and likely available to us given real world circumstances. I think our problems are much more than just bad goaltending.

As for the health and injuries, there is always injuries. We might do a little better in that dept., but I’m still expecting some injuries. Good teams seem to be able to overcome this factor.

Having said this, I would be very happy to be wrong about this.

Well, I don't think the changes will be limited to goaltending, we already made a major change in coaching, and by all accounts we are looking to address the RHD situation as well.

Certainly the NJD are an extreme example, but could we jump to 100 pts?

The kings went from 49pts in 56 games (a 71 pts pace) to 99 pts the next year in 2020-21 and 2021-22
The NYI went from 80 pts to 103 pts in 2017-18 and 2018-19
The Nucks went from 83 pts last year to 109 this year,
The NYR went from 60 pts in 56 (88 pts pace) to 110 pts in 2020-21 and 2021-22
Carolina went from 83 pts under Peters, to 99 under Brindamour in 2017-18 and 2018-19
Avs went from 48 pts to 95 pts 2016-17 and 2017-18
Tampa went from 40 in 48 (a 68 pts pace) to 101 pts in 2012-13 and 2013-14.

Teams with good pieces but flaws can make big jumps in the standings. The bigger the flaw, the more likely fixing it will result in big gains. Our goaltending is a huge flaw. I think our coaching was a minor flaw, and our balance on D is also a minor flaw. I can see all of those getting addressed this offseason, and if they do, there is the potential for big gains, because there is a ton of parity in the league.

 

[Relapsing]

Someone like Knight or Gustavsson is looking better to me as a half measure if the goalie market is going to be wacky enough that people are actually talking about a 1st and a top prospect for Markstrom, or NJD's 10th pick.

Maybe roll the dice on Driedger as a UFA? He's not coming cheap with how the goalie market is, but he also won't cost real starter money.

I understand why there is pressure for them to solidify the position because they absolutely need to make the playoffs this year, but I guess I'm just over it. I see it as delaying the inevitable and putting us in a worse position next off season when we probably have to do a major re-tool.

Dreidger? No thanks.

- Recent ACL tear and missed a ton of time because of it
- spent 2022-23 in the AHL and played all of 14 games
- played all of 2 games this past season

Hard Pass.

---

Otherwise... What's with the focus around here on bringing back former players? I truly do not understand it at all.

Brown? WTF, is he blackmailing people?

Ceci? My god, not in a million years.

 

[HoweHullOrr]

Well, I don't think the changes will be limited to goaltending, we already made a major change in coaching, and by all accounts we are looking to address the RHD situation as well.

Certainly the NJD are an extreme example, but could we jump to 100 pts?

The kings went from 49pts in 56 games (a 71 pts pace) to 99 pts the next year in 2020-21 and 2021-22
The NYI went from 80 pts to 103 pts in 2017-18 and 2018-19
The Nucks went from 83 pts last year to 109 this year,
The NYR went from 60 pts in 56 (88 pts pace) to 110 pts in 2020-21 and 2021-22
Carolina went from 83 pts under Peters, to 99 under Brindamour in 2017-18 and 2018-19
Avs went from 48 pts to 95 pts 2016-17 and 2017-18
Tampa went from 40 in 48 (a 68 pts pace) to 101 pts in 2012-13 and 2013-14.

Teams with good pieces but flaws can make big jumps in the standings. The bigger the flaw, the more likely fixing it will result in big gains. Our goaltending is a huge flaw. I think our coaching was a minor flaw, and our balance on D is also a minor flaw. I can see all of those getting addressed this offseason, and if they do, there is the potential for big gains, because there is a ton of parity in the league.

Hope you are right. I think it will take a combination of better goaltending and better team D to get us at or above the 100 point mark. I guess I see poor team D as a major deficiency last year (more than others do) and that it will be required for us to achieve the results we hope for.