Proposal: Free agency edition Trade Rumours/Proposals [MOD - Stay on Topic] 5

[Alf Silfversson]

It's time to move on from Chychrun. He hasn't been good lately but he still has decent production this year.

Trade hiim for picks and/or young players (<22 years of age). Then park Hamonic in the press box.

Sanderson - Zub
Chabot - Brannstrom
Kleven - JBD

is our healthy D for the rest of the year. Unlike most on here I think Kleven is going to need to improve a fair bit to be an effective NHLer. Get him some play this year so he knows what he needs to make the jump to the NHL. You could also rotate in some guys like Guennette or Matinpalo to get a better read on their NHL prospects.

 

[Alex1234]

4 more years of Korpisalo is a doozy, we probably have to give up more than a first to get rid of that contract.

Sticking with DJ could have been corrected earlier if we wanted to, Staois owns at least part of the 26 games of that,

Yep
I would buy him out
Yes its 8 years but 1.3MM out of the new 87.7 cap is not that bad (1.48%)
It's like doing without Harmonic (ish) for 8 years
I do not know why they wouldnt do that

 

[Burrowsaurus]

Bad idea. If this season has shown anything we need a proven goalie, not a journeyman or inconsistent starter. Buyout Korpisalo fine, but I want a legit #1 to replace him.

#1s aren’t everywhere.

Actually scouting a goalie is different than what we’ve done. We’ve basically acquired goalies based on Dorions gut

 

[PlayOn]

I’m torn on Korpisalo but if we can somehow land a legitimate #1, I’d be ok to keep him as back-up and hope he’s at least average next year.

8 years is a long time for dead money regardless of the amount. If he sucks again next year you might not have a choice but if he bounces back maybe you can trade with retention or just keep him depending on where Sogaard’s at.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

I'd benn advocating that since before we got Talbot, but with every year it becomes more risky as expectations for the season increases

We just need a guy who will save .905. That’s it. Heck just .900 would be amazing right now

For the rest of this season. Man I dono. Part of me says tell Sogaard it’s his net. Give him that confidence right away sort of thing. See what he does with it. But I don’t was to totally torpedo Belleville either

Unless you have THEE guy you need to be smart with these goalies. No more hunches.

At this point we need to scout goalies and look for traits such as “can stop wristers from far out”

Anthony Stolarz is a name that is interesting

Driedger may also need to play for a cheaper show me contract.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

I’m torn on Korpisalo but if we can somehow land a legitimate #1, I’d be ok to keep him as back-up and hope he’s at least average next year.

8 years is a long time for dead money regardless of the amount. If he sucks again next year you might not have a choice but if he bounces back maybe you can trade with retention or just keep him depending on where Sogaard’s at.

Land a legit number 1 and keep korpisalo as backup? Thats a lot of cash at the goalie position

 

[frightenedinmatenum2]

They could hold on to Chychrun until the off season, but usually that is posturing.

He is a known quantity whose name has been out there for a few months so I don't think teams will hold a strong of bad games against him.

I doubt we get anything close to what we gave up, but it should be more than a typical rental return because he has term. Maybe it ends up being more of a hockey trade.

Saros for Chychrun might make sense if we are actually connected to him. Both have similar money and term.

 

[PlayOn]

Land a legit number 1 and keep korpisalo as backup? Thats a lot of cash at the goalie position

Yeah I don’t know if it’s feasible. It probably means you can’t do much with your forward group if anything at all. But it’s not that much different than keeping Forsberg and finding a legit #1 for next year, and if he bounces back you avoid an 8 year buyout.

Alternatively we can just find ourselves an average goalie. But I don’t this team can afford to suck next year so it comes with its own risks.

 

[Joeyjoejoe]

Chychrun for one of Bostons goalies.

 

[frightenedinmatenum2]

Land a legit number 1 and keep korpisalo as backup? Thats a lot of cash at the goalie position

It is a sunk cost.

In addition to that, a Korpisalo buyout doesn't save any cap space. Over the life of a buyout, the Senators save 5.33M. If they bury Korpisalo for the next 4 years, they save 1.15M per season (4.6M total).

That means that a buyout only saves them an additional 730k over the lifetime of the contract. It comes with a lot of negatives like 8 years of dead cap. In addition, they cannot trade dead cap. If they don't buyout Korpisalo, there may be a chance to include him in a trade to offset cap coming back. Or, they could attach a pick to him down the line. Or, in the distant chance that his play improves they might eventually be able to move him with retention after some of the term is gone from his contract.

The only benefit to buying Korpisalo out is if the team values short term cap much higher than long term cap. A buyout only costs approx. 300k in 24-25 and 600k in 25-26, along with the cost of filling his roster spot (775k+) assuming he won't be buried. For a team like Ottawa, I don't think a buyout makes sense.

If we go after Saros, the play would be to try to move Forsberg and Korpisalo, but if we can't move either, they both fight for the backup spot and whoever loses gets buried in the minors. Saros is a 65+ game type goalie, which is rare in today's NHL. So we won't need a strong #2 goalie. If Korpisalo is the backup, he would be expected to play 15-20 games a year at .900+. He might be able to do that.

 

[jjniner]

You guys sound like us as Blues fans. You rip on Chychrun and say how awful he is and then expected a first ++ in return?

We will gladly give you Krug and a 2nd for him!

 

[frightenedinmatenum2]

You guys sound like us as Blues fans. You rip on Chychrun and say how awful he is and then expected a first ++ in return?

We will gladly give you Krug and a 2nd for him!

I don't understand posts like this.

We don't work for the team. This is a fan discussion forum.

 

[Xspyrit]

You guys sound like us as Blues fans. You rip on Chychrun and say how awful he is and then expected a first ++ in return?

We will gladly give you Krug and a 2nd for him!

Chychrun has been playing like crap since the coaching change and we are talking about it

It doesn't mean that he has no trade value. If Blues fans can't make that nuance, no, we are not the same

 

[DueDiligence]

It is a sunk cost.

In addition to that, a Korpisalo buyout doesn't save any cap space. Over the life of a buyout, the Senators save 5.33M. If they bury Korpisalo for the next 4 years, they save 1.15M per season (4.6M total).

If the Sens buy Korpisalo out they save cap space of $3.6 million next year and $3.1 million in 2025-26 which is significant . They can deal with the larger cap penalties that occur in subsequent years much more easily.

 

[Alex1234]

You guys sound like us as Blues fans. You rip on Chychrun and say how awful he is and then expected a first ++ in return?

We will gladly give you Krug and a 2nd for him!

First of all we need an RHD so it would have to be Faulk or Parayko

 

[frightenedinmatenum2]

If the Sens buy Korpisalo out they save cap space of $3.6 million next year and $3.1 million in 2025-26 which is significant . They can deal with the larger cap penalties that occur in subsequent years much more easily.

I addressed that in my post.

It frees up short-term cap space at the expense of freeing up almost no cap space over the lifetime of the buyout. The only reason to buy him out will be if they are hard pressed against the cap next year.

Once you run the actual numbers, a buyout only frees up about 730k over the lifetime of the contract. There are no real savings to a buyout, it just spreads the cap penalty over a longer period of time. I don't think we're cap strapped enough to justify it.

A buyout saves 5.33M, burying him for 4 years saves 4.6M, alternatively dressing him as a backup and not having to pay a backup goalie 1M+ also saves a similar amount of cap by proxy.

His cap hit as at the point where the savings are so close to the replacement cost or buried cap relief that it only makes sense to buy him out if they highly value short term cap space at the expense of having dead cap on the books for 8 years and losing any flexibility as it pertains to moving him in a trade (bundled with an asset, as part of a bigger trade, or as an asset if his game bounces back).

 

[Alex1234]

I addressed that in my post.

It frees up short-term cap space at the expense of freeing up almost no cap space over the lifetime of the buyout. The only reason to buy him out will be if they are hard pressed against the cap next year.

Once you run the actual numbers, a buyout only frees up about 730k over the lifetime of the contract. There are no real savings to a buyout, it just spreads the cap penalty over a longer period of time. I don't think we're cap strapped enough to justify it.

A buyout saves 5.33M, burying him for 4 years saves 4.6M, alternatively dressing him as a backup and not having to pay a backup goalie 1M+ also saves a similar amount of cap by proxy.

His cap hit as at the point where the savings are so close to the replacement cost or buried cap relief that it only makes sense to buy him out if they highly value short term cap space at the expense of having dead cap on the books for 8 years and losing any flexibility as it pertains to moving him in a trade (bundled with an asset, as part of a bigger trade, or as an asset if his game bounces back).

So you are advocating to trade Forsberg?

 

[frightenedinmatenum2]

So you are advocating to trade Forsberg?

That's not relevant to buying out Korpisalo or not.

The point that I made is a buyout saves only a negligible amount of cap space so it is not worth doing. It is only worth doing if the team highly values cap flexibility from 2024-2026 at the expense of shifting Korpisalo's dead cap to later seasons.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

It is a sunk cost.

In addition to that, a Korpisalo buyout doesn't save any cap space. Over the life of a buyout, the Senators save 5.33M. If they bury Korpisalo for the next 4 years, they save 1.15M per season (4.6M total).

That means that a buyout only saves them an additional 730k over the lifetime of the contract. It comes with a lot of negatives like 8 years of dead cap. In addition, they cannot trade dead cap. If they don't buyout Korpisalo, there may be a chance to include him in a trade to offset cap coming back. Or, they could attach a pick to him down the line. Or, in the distant chance that his play improves they might eventually be able to move him with retention after some of the term is gone from his contract.

The only benefit to buying Korpisalo out is if the team values short term cap much higher than long term cap. A buyout only costs approx. 300k in 24-25 and 600k in 25-26, along with the cost of filling his roster spot (775k+) assuming he won't be buried. For a team like Ottawa, I don't think a buyout makes sense.

If we go after Saros, the play would be to try to move Forsberg and Korpisalo, but if we can't move either, they both fight for the backup spot and whoever loses gets buried in the minors. Saros is a 65+ game type goalie, which is rare in today's NHL. So we won't need a strong #2 goalie. If Korpisalo is the backup, he would be expected to play 15-20 games a year at .900+. He might be able to do that.

It is absolutely a sunk cost. He's given below replacement value performance.

 

[frightenedinmatenum2]

It is absolutely a sunk cost. He's given below replacement value performance.

Exactly.

If we identify a goalie we like, whatever we are already paying Korpisalo or Forsberg is irrelevant because neither of them will fill the position.

It's like you can say we wouldn't go out and sign a shutdown LD to an 8M contract because we already have Sanderson in that role so it would be redundant. But the goalie situation is different because we don't have anybody to fill the role.

We don't have a starting goalie, and neither Forsberg or Korpisalo are even guaranteed to win the backup job next year. The focus with them is entirely about what makes the most sense to mitigate the cost of their cap hits.

If we don't buy out Korpisalo, he will either be buried or be our backup. In either case, we save either 1.15M through burying him or a similar amount by proxy because we don't have to assign a backup goalie in his place to the roster.

A buyout saves us about 2.66M when taking that into account. For a buyout to make sense, we need to be 2.66M short of a very important move, because spreading the dead cap over 8 years instead of 4 (with the upside of getting out of the contract in other ways down the road) is hardly ideal.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

Yeah I would rather just buy him out. Better than paying him full to not play here. Just pay him Half to not play here

 

[CornerStone61]

The buyout for Korpisalo is pretty forgiving, so I fully expect us to go that route, especially if we're going goalie hunting

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

Exactly.

If we identify a goalie we like, whatever we are already paying Korpisalo or Forsberg is irrelevant because neither of them will fill the position.

It's like you can say we wouldn't go out and sign a shutdown LD to an 8M contract because we already have Sanderson in that role so it would be redundant. But the goalie situation is different because we don't have anybody to fill the role.

We don't have a starting goalie, and neither Forsberg or Korpisalo are even guaranteed to win the backup job next year. The focus with them is entirely about what makes the most sense to mitigate the cost of their cap hits.

If we don't buy out Korpisalo, he will either be buried or be our backup. In either case, we save either 1.15M through burying him or a similar amount by proxy because we don't have to assign a backup goalie in his place to the roster.

A buyout saves us about 2.66M when taking that into account. For a buyout to make sense, we need to be 2.66M short of a very important move, because spreading the dead cap over 8 years instead of 4 (with the upside of getting out of the contract in other ways down the road) is hardly ideal.

Exactly. That's how bad his performance is so far this year and why the buyout is even looked at as an option. If we get that again, we flat out can't have him on the team, even at full cost plus the cost of a replacement, so it's not always as easy as saying the buyout doesn't make sense because of the somewhat shit terms imo.

Korpisalo needs to improve to even be a backup we want around. Some might have an appetite to find out, some might prefer taking lumps. I'm on the side of just cutting our ties in the most beneficial way, whether that's buyout or trade with asset(s).

Since Forsberg is cheaper and shorter term, and has at least shown us something, I feel like we could potentially keep him as the backup and navigate it mid season if it falters, but that's harder to do with 4 years x 4 mil left in the context of Korpisalo.

 

[Loach]

Does a Campbell for Korpisalo deal with Edmonton work? Edmonton would save on Korp because Campbell is buried anyway. The buyout on Campbell might be better for Ottawa?

 

[Golden_Jet]

Does a Campbell for Korpisalo deal with Edmonton work? Edmonton would save on Korp because Campbell is buried anyway. The buyout on Campbell might be better for Ottawa?

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Campbell is a bit of a head case, he’s too emotional over wins and losses.