Proposal: Free agency edition Trade Rumours/Proposals [MOD - Stay on Topic] 5

[Boud]

Pretty much all of the most important positions are filled. Where are all of these prospects going to play? What positions are they going to graduate into that won't be filled by high-quality veterans acquired via trade or free agency?

This team doesn't need more youth, the inexperience is already abundant across the lineup. They need guys who know how to play a role in this league and can provide offensive and defensive depth. Restocking the cupboards will happen naturally through the draft, you don't need to make extra plans for more draft capital. And the whole idea of an empty prospect pool is so overrated. Who cares? Prospects aren't going to win us a championship in the next 3 years. The guys we've waited the last 3-4 years for are the ones who are going to do it or not. It's like you're worrying more about the contingency plan of not getting there than you are about how this current group gets there.

I agree to a certain degree but there's big issues with this roster and how it's currently constructed. Mostly because Dorion was trying to save his job and acquired 2 players on expiring deals who likely won't be here or who are already not here.

Looking at the next 1-2 years...

Giroux will be on the verge of retirement or likely be less and less effective. He's probably our best forward. We'll need to replace him at some point.
We need a #1 goalie.
We need a top pair RHD.

These positions won't get filled easily. You need to draft guys to fill those spots, especially on defense.

We won't have the cap space to acquire these assets via free agency and we certainly don't have the assets to acquire this type of player through trade unless we substract a significant piece from somewhere else on the roster.

We need to have guys that will come in and make other good players expandable (at cheaper cost) so we can stay relevant for a longer period of time.

I'm starting to think this team might not be much better than a bubble team until Tkachuk's contract is done. Rarely do teams from bottom 5 become contenders. It's likely next year or 2 we're a bubble team while these players get their heads out of their ass and start playing NHL hockey, the one after that we may be a middle of the pack playoff team and then our big pieces are due for new contracts. This is if all goes well, meaning that we find a RHD, a goalie, a legit top 6 guy and see progression from Stutzle/Sanderson/Pinto/Greig and Norris can stay healthy. Those are not a given either.

 

[Skid]

Draft picks don't take 6 years anymore, if you're good, you're pushing a lineup within 2, 3 years max.

We traded away 7th 1 year and a half ago, that guy is already playing 20 mins a night for the Hawks blueline.

We traded 12th 8 months ago, and the guy taken 13th is already playing in the top 6 with Buffalo.

We made mistakes trading away all of our draft capital to win now, the Sens are in the exact same spot they were then, but with a much higher cap hit. They need to be adding prospects.

The need all the picks they can get, and they should be using some of the added picks to find a RD, and using the rest to restock their absolutely bare cupboards, that will be needed.

I said we need to keep our first rounders. Don’t use the 7th overall and 13th overall as examples.

I’d rather have 2 years of a player like tanev over Ben Roger

 

[BUCKLE UP]

Remember how Patrick Roy was attached to Chabot back in the day?

Hmmmmm.

Is this a thing? I honestly don’t recall.

 

[BondraTime]

We have two firsts for that. I just don’t understand trading chychrun for a first to then acquire another chychrun. If the guy we acquire is good they will also need another contract.

Seems like a lot of maneuvering to possibly end up in the same spot.

And that’s IF players of that calibre are available. Not sure a guy like Dach is something we want. But even young top 4 d men.

We are/would be trading Chychrun because:

He's a LD
He's going to cost 8+ million
The Sens CAN"T have 24+ million tied up into left shot D.
Their D needs a player opposite of Chychrun

No winning teams are built with that kind of capital on D. When they reach those levels, they are no longer cup contenders. That's not even taking into account they would all be LD, or playing in a role they are not as well suited for.

The Sens aren't looking to acquire another Chychrun, they aren't looking to get another 22+ minute LS offensive D. They need to find a 19/20 minute guy, no PP time, and PK time. Picking up a package of late 1st/ends/prospect would make getting a guy like this much, much easier.

Dach isn't a guy we would want or be looking for. I'm just using 2022 as a recent draft where 4 big time, young players went for future packages of picks.

 

[BondraTime]

Pretty much all of the most important positions are filled. Where are all of these prospects going to play? What positions are they going to graduate into that won't be filled by high-quality veterans acquired via trade or free agency?

This team doesn't need more youth, the inexperience is already abundant across the lineup. They need guys who know how to play a role in this league and can provide offensive and defensive depth. Restocking the cupboards will happen naturally through the draft, you don't need to make extra plans for more draft capital. And the whole idea of an empty prospect pool is so overrated. Who cares? Prospects aren't going to win us a championship in the next 3 years. The guys we've waited the last 3-4 years for are the ones who are going to do it or not. It's like you're worrying more about the contingency plan of not getting there than you are about how this current group gets there.

I absolutely am. In my opinion this team isn't going to magically transform from what we have seen first hand for years into a cup contender in a 3 year window. I have been adamant for years that the team was built very poorly, and I still have that belief.

This team is going to look very different heading into next season, members of the core are going to be moved. It's not going to continue to be a Pierre Dorion team, it's going to become a Staios team. Staios has yet to add a single player to the roster.

They need pieces to make that happen, and guys that aren't going to be part of the plan will help get pieces, and young guys, that will be when they are ready to compete in 3/4 years.

 

[BondraTime]

I said we need to keep our first rounders. Don’t use the 7th overall and 13th overall as examples.

I’d rather have 2 years of a player like tanev over Ben Roger

As would I, I'd hope if we could get him for a 50th overall pick and have him signed for 2 years we'd have made that trade as soon as it was available

 

[bicboi64]

Looking at the next 1-2 years...

Giroux will be on the verge of retirement or likely be less and less effective. He's probably our best forward. We'll need to replace him at some point.
We need a #1 goalie.
We need a top pair RHD.

These positions won't get filled easily. You need to draft guys to fill those spots, especially on defense.

We are/would be trading Chychrun because:

He's a LD
He's going to cost 8+ million
The Sens CAN"T have 24+ million tied up into left shot D.
Their D needs a player opposite of Chychrun

No winning teams are built with that kind of capital on D.

100% agree with this.

It's one thing if Chychrun had a flawless transition to RD, but it isn't worth it to spend the $8 million on him when we might be able to get that a better RD at that (or less than) cost.

The cupboards are bare, the prospects we had from the initial rebuild have graduated but there's too many holes.

Unless some FAs randomly want to sign here for a fair price (Giroux, Tarasenko, etc.,) we need to stock the cupboards. Keep the first rounder and 2nd rounder for this year unless we're getting a deal where we are a clear winner.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

We are/would be trading Chychrun because:

He's a LD
He's going to cost 8+ million
The Sens CAN"T have 24+ million tied up into left shot D.
Their D needs a player opposite of Chychrun

No winning teams are built with that kind of capital on D. When they reach those levels, they are no longer cup contenders. That's not even taking into account they would all be LD, or playing in a role they are not as well suited for.

The Sens aren't looking to acquire another Chychrun, they aren't looking to get another 22+ minute LS offensive D. They need to find a 19/20 minute guy, no PP time, and PK time. Picking up a package of late 1st/ends/prospect would make getting a guy like this much, much easier.

Dach isn't a guy we would want or be looking for. I'm just using 2022 as a recent draft where 4 big time, young players went for future packages of picks.

I’ve maintained that I would keep chychrun as long as his salary is within reason for us.

Yeah I’ve read the argument about cup winners having x dollars allocated to their top 3 highest paid d. But cap is going up.
And also only one team wins a year. There are many teams with the same x dollars committed to their D that DONT win.

I think we can win with a strong left side and solid well scouted right side.

And I think tarasenko likely brings us a first.

That gives us two firsts to trade and one first to make a pick. I think that’s enough personally.

100% agree with this.

It's one thing if Chychrun had a flawless transition to RD, but it isn't worth it to spend the $8 million on him when we might be able to get that a better RD at that (or less than) cost.

The cupboards are bare, the prospects we had from the initial rebuild have graduated but there's too many holes.

Unless some FAs randomly want to sign here for a fair price (Giroux, Tarasenko, etc.,) we need to stock the cupboards. Keep the first rounder and 2nd rounder for this year unless we're getting a deal where we are a clear winner.

Cupboards are bare but here’s the thing. You get a free draft every single year.

post deadline we likely have 5 firsts in the next 3 drafts. 4 in the next 2.

 

[BondraTime]

I’ve maintained that I would keep chychrun as long as his salary is within reason for us.

Yeah I’ve read the argument about cup winners having x dollars allocated to their top 3 highest paid d. But cap is going up.
And also only one team wins a year. There are many teams with the same x dollars committed to their D that DONT win.

I think we can win with a strong left side and solid well scouted right side.

And I think tarasenko likely brings us a first.

That gives us two firsts to trade and one first to make a pick. I think that’s enough personally.

Perfectly reasonable. I disagree wholeheartedly, but that's my opinion

 

[Big Muddy]

Pretty much all of the most important positions are filled. Where are all of these prospects going to play? What positions are they going to graduate into that won't be filled by high-quality veterans acquired via trade or free agency?

Well if we had a really good ELC winger, we could fill Taransenko's slot if/when he departs. Giroux could possibly be replaced after next year. We've needed a good RD for a long time, and you never have enough of them, and they are hard & expensive to get via trade. A good goalie is another need, no harm in having a really solid one in the pipeline. No harm in having more competition on the 4th line as well. Then, you can use them for trades. If you have a good young player on an inexpensive ELC contract, you can afford to pay more when a top notch UFA comes up in that fills a position of need. Its always a good idea to keep the pipeline stocked with picks & good prospects.

 

[Big Muddy]

Draft picks don't take 6 years anymore, if you're good, you're pushing a lineup within 2, 3 years max.

We traded away 7th 1 year and a half ago, that guy is already playing 20 mins a night for the Hawks blueline.

We traded 12th 8 months ago, and the guy taken 13th is already playing in the top 6 with Buffalo.

We made mistakes trading away all of our draft capital to win now, the Sens are in the exact same spot they were then, but with a much higher cap hit. They need to be adding prospects.

The need all the picks they can get, and they should be using some of the added picks to find a RD, and using the rest to restock their absolutely bare cupboards, that will be needed.

You can add Grieg and Pinto to that list as well who were a late 1st rounder and an early 2nd rounder. It doesn't take 4 years for 1st round picks (and some early 2nd round picks) to become NHL regulars, nor did it take Grieg and Pinto 4 years to become NHL regulars.

 

[Big Muddy]

We have two firsts for that. I just don’t understand trading chychrun for a first to then acquire another chychrun. If the guy we acquire is good they will also need another contract.

Seems like a lot of maneuvering to possibly end up in the same spot.

And that’s IF players of that calibre are available. Not sure a guy like Dach is something we want. But even young top 4 d men.

The goal is to get a RD not another LD (i.e., Chychrun). We've been forcing LDs to play RD because we don't have a good, top 4 RD option. And, there are 2 paths to acquiring a player: trade & UFA. You seem to be assuming that a trade is the only path.

 

[AchtzehnBaby]

This team can't even make a top five seller list...

2024 NHL Trade Deadline: Ranking the top five seller teams

With an influx of pending UFAs and/or motivation to shed salary, these five teams could be quite active leading into...

www.dailyfaceoff.com

 

[frightenedinmatenum2]

This team can't even make a top five seller list...

2024 NHL Trade Deadline: Ranking the top five seller teams

With an influx of pending UFAs and/or motivation to shed salary, these five teams could be quite active leading into...

www.dailyfaceoff.com

We don't have many good pieces that are rentals.

The only rental we have that teams would want is Tarasenko, who can dictate his destination via his NMC.

Kubalik and Brannstrom have no real value. Best case scenario, we retain on both and get a 4th-7th round pick for each of them.

Any of our good trade pieces whose names have been out there like Chychrun have term. So this isn't a surprise.

 

[Alf Silfversson]

To NYR:
Chychrun
Tarasenko (40% retained)

To Ottawa:
Kakko
Schneider
NYR 1st
EDM 2nd
Connor Brown

To Edmonton:
Goodrow (20% retained: 10% by OTT, 10% by NYR)
Hamonic (50% retained)

 

[BankStreetParade]

I agree to a certain degree but there's big issues with this roster and how it's currently constructed. Mostly because Dorion was trying to save his job and acquired 2 players on expiring deals who likely won't be here or who are already not here.

Looking at the next 1-2 years...

Giroux will be on the verge of retirement or likely be less and less effective. He's probably our best forward. We'll need to replace him at some point.
We need a #1 goalie.
We need a top pair RHD.

These positions won't get filled easily. You need to draft guys to fill those spots, especially on defense.

We won't have the cap space to acquire these assets via free agency and we certainly don't have the assets to acquire this type of player through trade unless we substract a significant piece from somewhere else on the roster.

We need to have guys that will come in and make other good players expandable (at cheaper cost) so we can stay relevant for a longer period of time.

I'm starting to think this team might not be much better than a bubble team until Tkachuk's contract is done. Rarely do teams from bottom 5 become contenders. It's likely next year or 2 we're a bubble team while these players get their heads out of their ass and start playing NHL hockey, the one after that we may be a middle of the pack playoff team and then our big pieces are due for new contracts. This is if all goes well, meaning that we find a RHD, a goalie, a legit top 6 guy and see progression from Stutzle/Sanderson/Pinto/Greig and Norris can stay healthy. Those are not a given either.

Then we fundamentally disagree on the bolded. This team has nothing but cap space going forward. Starting next year, the most conservative estimate is $12.75M assuming nothing else changes with the roster except expiring contracts and dead money coming off the books.

That doesn't take into account doing anything with the current goaltenders or the current core. Buying out Forsberg opens up another $1.8M in cap - assuming they can't trade him somewhere with some dollars retained. Buying out Korpisalo - assuming they can't trade him somewhere with some dollars retained - opens up another $3.7M next year. We're already over $18M in cap space for next year to fill a couple of the positions you've noted - top4 RHD and #1G - since Giroux is still signed and there's no need to replace him this summer. Go out and get a couple of vets to fill some bottom 6 roles and you still have at least $8M to play with through the season.

The following summer, the cap is expected to hit $92M from $87.5M. That gives you another $4.5M on top of the $8M you should still have. $12.5M in cap to replace Giroux, potentially, and to add another piece to the bottom 6 again.

How much cap and draft capital does a team need when they're entering a competitive window? This is worrying about tomorrow when you should be worried about today.

I absolutely am. In my opinion this team isn't going to magically transform from what we have seen first hand for years into a cup contender in a 3 year window. I have been adamant for years that the team was built very poorly, and I still have that belief.

This team is going to look very different heading into next season, members of the core are going to be moved. It's not going to continue to be a Pierre Dorion team, it's going to become a Staios team. Staios has yet to add a single player to the roster.

They need pieces to make that happen, and guys that aren't going to be part of the plan will help get pieces, and young guys, that will be when they are ready to compete in 3/4 years.

They have a ton of cap space. Draft capital should be used to augment the core that will remain, rather than to create a constant stream of inexperienced players who can't fill veteran roles. 3-4 years is not a realistic timeline to competitiveness. Honestly, that seems like the absolute worst case scenario.

Well if we had a really good ELC winger, we could fill Taransenko's slot if/when he departs. Giroux could possibly be replaced after next year. We've needed a good RD for a long time, and you never have enough of them, and they are hard & expensive to get via trade. A good goalie is another need, no harm in having a really solid one in the pipeline. No harm in having more competition on the 4th line as well. Then, you can use them for trades. If you have a good young player on an inexpensive ELC contract, you can afford to pay more when a top notch UFA comes up in that fills a position of need. Its always a good idea to keep the pipeline stocked with picks & good prospects.

Ok but who says you get one in the draft? Is this team going to start drafting for need or will they continue to draft BPA? Goalies: lots in the pipeline plus tons that are available every year. Maybe there isn't a Hellebuyck coming into FA but there's a lot of serviceable goalies who can really put up numbers. Not to mention, they must be high on a couple of the guys already in the system.

No one said not to have any picks or good prospects but if this team has any extra picks they should be used as trade capital. Enough of this stock-piling stuff, we're not building a deck for MtG.

 

[Hale The Villain]

We are/would be trading Chychrun because:

He's a LD
He's going to cost 8+ million
The Sens CAN"T have 24+ million tied up into left shot D.
Their D needs a player opposite of Chychrun

No winning teams are built with that kind of capital on D. When they reach those levels, they are no longer cup contenders. That's not even taking into account they would all be LD, or playing in a role they are not as well suited for.

The Sens aren't looking to acquire another Chychrun, they aren't looking to get another 22+ minute LS offensive D. They need to find a 19/20 minute guy, no PP time, and PK time. Picking up a package of late 1st/ends/prospect would make getting a guy like this much, much easier.

Dach isn't a guy we would want or be looking for. I'm just using 2022 as a recent draft where 4 big time, young players went for future packages of picks.

I agree with a lot of this but I don't think spending 24M on three D (even LD) is a problem.

Tampa won two cups with Hedman, McDonagh and Sergachev all spending most of their time at LD at even strength.

They didn't make 24M, but were close to 20M combined when the cap was lower, and that's with Sergachev on a bridge deal, whereas we smartly locked up Sanderson long-term.

If we had a couple good defensive RD prospects coming through the pipeline to round out the D, I would gladly re-sign Chychrun.

Problem is we have Kleven who projects as the perfect 3rd pairing LD and big holes at RD, so moving Chychrun or Chabot makes sense.

 

[Tuna99]

We don't have many good pieces that are rentals.

The only rental we have that teams would want is Tarasenko, who can dictate his destination via his NMC.

Kubalik and Brannstrom have no real value. Best case scenario, we retain on both and get a 4th-7th round pick for each of them.

Any of our good trade pieces whose names have been out there like Chychrun have term. So this isn't a surprise.

I’ll bet Forsberg gets traded - decent salary and term for a guy who can help a team make the playoffs

 

[Hale The Villain]

If we could still get something for Chabot I'd gladly trade him and re-sign Chychrun.

Chychrun's prone to the occasional brainfart and hockey sense is not a strength of his, but in a structured defensive system he should be able to defend alright.

Chabot is a lost cause at this point. Just lazily floats around the ice without a care in the world. At least Chychrun appears to want to win hockey games.

 

[Icelevel]

If we could still get something for Chabot I'd gladly trade him and re-sign Chychrun.

Chychrun's prone to the occasional brainfart and hockey sense is not a strength of his, but in a structured defensive system he should be able to defend alright.

Chabot is a lost cause at this point. Just lazily floats around the ice without a care in the world. At least Chychrun appears to want to win hockey games.

Agree. With Tarasenko kubalik brannstrom and chabot out, we’ll have lots of room to sign chychrun and a top4 rhd. Then add one solid veteran forward. Keep giroux.

 

[The Devilish Buffoon]

If we could still get something for Chabot I'd gladly trade him and re-sign Chychrun.

Chychrun's prone to the occasional brainfart and hockey sense is not a strength of his, but in a structured defensive system he should be able to defend alright.

Chabot is a lost cause at this point. Just lazily floats around the ice without a care in the world. At least Chychrun appears to want to win hockey games.

Chychrun might appear to want to win more than Chabot but Chabot does more to help the team win. Give me Chabot, personally.

 

[Hale The Villain]

Chychrun might appear to want to win more than Chabot but Chabot does more to help the team win. Give me Chabot, personally.

Based on what?

Chychrun's production is better than Chabot's, and he's spent very little time on the top PP.

Because of his great shot he doesn't need to be fed easy top PP minutes to put numbers up.

That's important because Sanderson is objectively better than Chabot at QBing the top PP at this point, and if Chabot gets moved to PP2 full-time his numbers will drop even further.

And while Chychrun has been bad defensively this year, at least he has a history of being solid in his own end. Chabot has never been good defensively.

 

[Big Muddy]

Ok but who says you get one in the draft? Is this team going to start drafting for need or will they continue to draft BPA? Goalies: lots in the pipeline plus tons that are available every year. Maybe there isn't a Hellebuyck coming into FA but there's a lot of serviceable goalies who can really put up numbers. Not to mention, they must be high on a couple of the guys already in the system.

No one said not to have any picks or good prospects but if this team has any extra picks they should be used as trade capital. Enough of this stock-piling stuff, we're not building a deck for MtG.

Well, there is a lot of good RD in this draft. And a good RD is a costly from an asset perspective via trade.

Sure, I didn't imply to not get a good player that fills a need via a trade if that really makes sense. Using the example of a goalie, there probably is a lesser name that could be decent via trade as an example. That was probably a good idea before snapping up Korpisalo perhaps. But then we need to get rid of one of our current goalies & hopefully a team would want Korpisalo and his contract (or possibly Forsberg) without it requiring a sweetner of some significance. I'd like to see how much (or if) our goaltending will improve over the next 20+ games with the team playing better team D first.

My points are: 1) We pushed our chips in too early (in the last couple of years) and started to move high draft picks before we knew this team was actually ready and capable of doing something good; and, 2) We can't abandon or ignore using picks as a tool to build the team especially when we finish low in the standings and have the opportunity to pick early in the 1st round.

 

[frightenedinmatenum2]

I’ll bet Forsberg gets traded - decent salary and term for a guy who can help a team make the playoffs

He isn't a rental, which is the point.

With that said, now might be the time to trade him. Apparently the goalie market is a seller's market. I think they would have to either retain, or take back a contract with similar term/money.

They are unlikely to find a taker for Korpisalo, and they need to find a goalie next year who they can rely on. That makes Forsberg the odd goalie out.

 

[The Devilish Buffoon]

Based on what?

Chychrun's production is better than Chabot's, and he's spent very little time on the top PP.

Because of his great shot he doesn't need to be fed easy top PP minutes to put numbers up.

That's important because Sanderson is objectively better than Chabot at QBing the top PP at this point, and if Chabot gets moved to PP2 full-time his numbers will drop even further.

And while Chychrun has been bad defensively this year, at least he has a history of being solid in his own end. Chabot has never been good defensively.

Based on Chabot transitioning the puck from defence to offence as well as almost anyone in the league. It's arguably the most important part of the game and Chabot is - and always has been - elite at it.

Chychrun is better on the PP but Chabot is more than sufficient for PP2 and is way more impactful at ES. The small differences defensively and on the PP don't make up for that.