Proposal: Free agency edition Trade Rumours/Proposals [MOD - Stay on Topic] 5

[HSF]

time to trade Hamonic to LA

 

[ottawagm]

time to trade Hamonic to LA

I was just about to post this!

 

[Duncstar]

Staios scouting the NYI TOR game fyi

Could see a Chych to NYI for 1st+Pageau+ then turn around and trade Pageau + retention for a 1st. Give us what, 4 1st round picks?

That's how you gain capital ppl. Go goalie hunting with that. Also Carolina scouted us V Detroit/Nash the other day (can't remember which). Senko or Korpi perhaps?

 

[frightenedinmatenum2]

.... why? He's clearly not as good as either one.

And, unlike when the other two signed, we have better, more important, more relied-on DMen under team control.

Chabot and Chychrun are fairly comparable. Chabot at his peak is better than Chychrun at his peak, but we haven't seen that Chabot for a while. Chabot will make an average of 9.5M in real cash for his UFA years but his contract holds an AAV of 8M because it combines UFA years with RFA years.

Sanderson is a tier above both of them, but his deal is an RFA deal. So they can't reasonably say, our best defenseman is at 8, you should take 6 or 7, because Sanderson is only at 8 because of the RFA years. Chychrun's contract will be all UFA years.

Team salary structure matters. Chychrun is not re-signing for less than 8M when the other two top 4 defensemen are at 8M, and more specifically Chabot is going to make an average of 9.5M for his UFA years.

He might sign for less somewhere else because if he hits the open market and chooses his destination, he may prioritize fit or winning over maxing out his AAV. Or, he may sign somewhere with no state tax.

As a free agent, 6.5M is the floor in an absolute worst case scenario for him, 9.5M is the ceiling in an absolute best case scenario. In Ottawa, he's not signing for less than 8M unless he really wants to be here like Debrincat with Detroit when they would only go 4 years.

Staios scouting the NYI TOR game fyi

Could see a Chych to NYI for 1st+Pageau+ then turn around and trade Pageau + retention for a 1st. Give us what, 4 1st round picks?

That's how you gain capital ppl. Go goalie hunting with that. Also Carolina scouted us V Detroit/Nash the other day (can't remember which). Senko or Korpi perhaps?

Remember how Patrick Roy was attached to Chabot back in the day?

Hmmmmm.

 

[Duncstar]

Chabot and Chychrun are fairly comparable. Chabot at his peak is better than Chychrun at his peak, but we haven't seen that Chabot for a while. Chabot will make an average of 9.5M in real cash for his UFA years but his contract holds an AAV of 8M because it combines UFA years with RFA years.

Sanderson is a tier above both of them, but his deal is an RFA deal. So they can't reasonably say, our best defenseman is at 8, you should take 6 or 7, because Sanderson is only at 8 because of the RFA years. Chychrun's contract will be all UFA years.

Team salary structure matters. Chychrun is not re-signing for less than 8M when the other two top 4 defensemen are at 8M, and more specifically Chabot is going to make an average of 9.5M for his UFA years.

He might sign for less somewhere else because if he hits the open market and chooses his destination, he may prioritize fit or winning over maxing out his AAV. Or, he may sign somewhere with no state tax.

As a free agent, 6.5M is the floor in an absolute worst case scenario for him, 9.5M is the ceiling in an absolute best case scenario. In Ottawa, he's not signing for less than 8M unless he really wants to be here like Debrincat with Detroit when they would only go 4 years.



Remember how Patrick Roy was attached to Chabot back in the day?

Hmmmmm.

You know what, I got the same vibes. Chabot also plays really well vs NYI. You may be onto something. I asked their boards if they'd move Mayfield for Chyc but they do need a good puck moving D.

 

[bicboi64]

Staios scouting the NYI TOR game fyi

Could see a Chych to NYI for 1st+Pageau+ then turn around and trade Pageau + retention for a 1st. Give us what, 4 1st round picks?

That's how you gain capital ppl. Go goalie hunting with that. Also Carolina scouted us V Detroit/Nash the other day (can't remember which). Senko or Korpi perhaps?

As much as I'd love Pageau back, moving him with retention for us doesn't work, we need the capspace for guys like Pinto and Greig. Wouldn't mind getting a 1st, a winger like Palmieri who is signed till next season and is a solid vet presence, and someone like Wahlstrom.

 

[frightenedinmatenum2]

You know what, I got the same vibes. Chabot also plays really well vs NYI. You may be onto something. I asked their boards if they'd move Mayfield for Chyc but they do need a good puck moving D.

Mayfield has a NTC.

Almost all their good players have NTCs.

They also would be acquiring Chabot to bolster their D, so they aren't going to move a key defenseman.

If Chabot goes to NYI, it's going to be Chabot for picks+prospects, but the Senators have to take back a bad contract to offset Chabot's 9.5M (8M AAV) owed.

It also gets complicated because it would have to be as close as possible to cap in/cap out.

Here is a cap in/out base for a trade that gets Ottawa veterans for next year+Picks and prospects - and has Ottawa taking overpaid players to compensate for Chabot being overpaid.

Chabot 8Mx5Y
Tarasenko 2.5Mx1Y (2.5M retained)
Warm Body 775k
Total: 11.25M

For

Pageau 5Mx3Y
Palmieri 5Mx2Y
Reilly 1Mx1Y (Warm body for Sens D for the rest of the season/throw in)
Total: 11M
*Islanders add picks+prospects.

That would be a format that could work. It would get the Senators two veteran forwards for next season. There are bad contracts on both sides of the trade. Chabot is not a 9.5M real dollar defenseman right now.

So if the Senators taking useful but declining veterans on overpriced or over-term deals makes Chabot's deal a good value, then you can focus on what Chabot should actually be worth in terms of 1st round picks or prospects and whether Tarasenko as a rental has more value than Palmieri. In which case, the Islanders add picks+prospects to reflect whatever the answer to that is.

 

[Duncstar]

Mayfield has a NTC.

Almost all their good players have NTCs.

They also would be acquiring Chabot to bolster their D, so they aren't going to move a key defenseman.

If Chabot goes to NYI, it's going to be Chabot for picks+prospects, but the Senators have to take back a bad contract to offset Chabot's 9.5M (8M AAV) owed.

It also gets complicated because it would have to be as close as possible to cap in/cap out.

Here is a cap in/out base for a trade that gets Ottawa veterans for next year+Picks and prospects - and has Ottawa taking overpaid players to compensate for Chabot being overpaid.

Chabot 8Mx5Y
Tarasenko 2.5Mx1Y (2.5M retained)
Warm Body 775k
Total: 11.25M

For

Pageau 5Mx3Y
Palmieri 5Mx2Y
Reilly 1Mx1Y (Warm body for Sens D for the rest of the season/throw in)
Total: 11M
*Islanders add picks+prospects.

That would be a format that could work. It would get the Senators two veteran forwards for next season. There are bad contracts on both sides of the trade. Chabot is not a 9.5M real dollar defenseman right now.

So if the Senators taking useful but declining veterans on overpriced or over-term deals makes Chabot's deal a good value, then you can focus on what Chabot should actually be worth in terms of 1st round picks or prospects and whether Tarasenko as a rental has more value than Palmieri. In which case, the Islanders add picks+prospects to reflect whatever the answer to that is.

This. This is probably what is literally going to happen.

I looked at Palmeri + Pageau for Chabot (with picks and prospects added). Remember we're moving out 8mil + so we can retain on Pageau to net an additional 1st. We wouldn't sign Chyc until the 25-26 season (we're probably at war with China then and our economy is more fcked then it already is). The cap is set to keep increasing. We can stomache alittle retention to get those 1sts, I'm tired of the Habs getting them all. Fckers.

Those 1st will turn into Markstrom or Saros. Mark my words. (Pun fully intended).

 

[frightenedinmatenum2]

This. This is probably what is literally going to happen.

I looked at Palmeri + Pageau for Chabot (with picks and prospects added). Remember we're moving out 8mil + so we can retain on Pageau to net an additional 1st. We wouldn't sign Chyc until the 25-26 season (we're probably at war with China then and our economy is more fcked then it already is). The cap is set to keep increasing. We can stomache alittle retention to get those 1sts, I'm tired of the Habs getting them all. Fckers.

Those 1st will turn into Markstrom or Saros. Mark my words. (Pun fully intended).

The way I see the scenario is that they value Palmieri and Pageau as top 9 veteran forwards. Not having to retain money on Chabot offsets Palmieri and Pageau being overpaid. Palmieri's money is off the books in 1 season. Pageau's term is an issue but they live with it to keep Chychrun, get full value for Chabot, and add multiple veteran forwards who could be a fit for next year.

The alternative would be that the Islanders are in on Chychrun and are willing to pay a steep price for him, but the Senators need to take back Palmieri or Pageau to make it cap in/out. Last year, there were apparently teams who could outbid us for Chychrun, but they had to drop out because the Coyotes could not take back money to make it fit in season. Lou is a very aggressive GM who isn't afraid to make a big trade.

Pageau or Palmieri and three 1st round tier assets for Chychrun.

 

[Joeyjoejoe]

This. This is probably what is literally going to happen.

I looked at Palmeri + Pageau for Chabot (with picks and prospects added). Remember we're moving out 8mil + so we can retain on Pageau to net an additional 1st. We wouldn't sign Chyc until the 25-26 season (we're probably at war with China then and our economy is more fcked then it already is). The cap is set to keep increasing. We can stomache alittle retention to get those 1sts, I'm tired of the Habs getting them all. Fckers.

Those 1st will turn into Markstrom or Saros. Mark my words. (Pun fully intended).

wtf

 

[Ice-Tray]

Mayfield has a NTC.

Almost all their good players have NTCs.

They also would be acquiring Chabot to bolster their D, so they aren't going to move a key defenseman.

If Chabot goes to NYI, it's going to be Chabot for picks+prospects, but the Senators have to take back a bad contract to offset Chabot's 9.5M (8M AAV) owed.

It also gets complicated because it would have to be as close as possible to cap in/cap out.

Here is a cap in/out base for a trade that gets Ottawa veterans for next year+Picks and prospects - and has Ottawa taking overpaid players to compensate for Chabot being overpaid.

Chabot 8Mx5Y
Tarasenko 2.5Mx1Y (2.5M retained)
Warm Body 775k
Total: 11.25M

For

Pageau 5Mx3Y
Palmieri 5Mx2Y
Reilly 1Mx1Y (Warm body for Sens D for the rest of the season/throw in)
Total: 11M
*Islanders add picks+prospects.

That would be a format that could work. It would get the Senators two veteran forwards for next season. There are bad contracts on both sides of the trade. Chabot is not a 9.5M real dollar defenseman right now.

So if the Senators taking useful but declining veterans on overpriced or over-term deals makes Chabot's deal a good value, then you can focus on what Chabot should actually be worth in terms of 1st round picks or prospects and whether Tarasenko as a rental has more value than Palmieri. In which case, the Islanders add picks+prospects to reflect whatever the answer to that is.

Brutally bad trade for us. Whenever you find yourself about to trade the TWO best players in a deal for scraps it’s time to step back and hang up the phone.

Thats not even a hockey trade it’s a gift to NYI for no apparent reason.

 

[senswon]

Could we do something around

Ott
Kakko

Nyr
Tarasenko

Familiar spot for tank, playoff bound

 

[Duncstar]

Brutally bad trade for us. Whenever you find yourself about to trade the TWO best players in a deal for scraps it’s time to step back and hang up the phone.

Thats not even a hockey trade it’s a gift to NYI for no apparent reason.

The point is the draft capital you get back. Though if you're taking Palmeri back you should be getting good capital! That's how you win the trade, use it to get your RHD & goalie.

Could we do something around

Ott
Kakko

Nyr
Tarasenko

Familiar spot for tank, playoff bound

No they need a center

 

[TonySoprano11]

The point is the draft capital you get back. Though if you're taking Palmeri back you should be getting good capital! That's how you win the trade, use it to get your RHD & goalie.


No they need a center

We don't need draft capital! We need to be winning NOW. We need to be trading draft picks for players to help this team win. Do you want to sit around for four years why these 4 mid to late first round picks MAYBE mature into something decent. Or watch them become Lassi Thompson, JBD, and Brannstrom?

We're done building. Enough waiting around. It's go time.

 

[Duncstar]

wtf

I figured I'd screw with you. It's really 2027 that war breaks out...

How Primed for War Is China?

Risk signals for a conflict are flashing red.

foreignpolicy.com

But I degress. Seems the team is turning over every stone to find a RHD, or gearing up to clear players for assets and cap space. I could see this happening earlier then later.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

I understand first round picks are sexy but like why do we need 15 of them this year.

 

[Loach]

We don't need draft capital! We need to be winning NOW. We need to be trading draft picks for players to help this team win. Do you want to sit around for four years why these 4 mid to late first round picks MAYBE mature into something decent. Or watch them become Lassi Thompson, JBD, and Brannstrom?

We're done building. Enough waiting around. It's go time.

Terrible post.

 

[Skid]

Terrible post.

Not really, we have a lot of the pieces we needed from the draft. It’s time to put it all together and we don’t really need to wait another 6 years for these draft picks to potentially turn into something. The franchise needs to win starting now. I’d recommend keeping into firsts this year but 2nds, 3rds etc can be moved for help

 

[BondraTime]

We don't need draft capital! We need to be winning NOW. We need to be trading draft picks for players to help this team win. Do you want to sit around for four years why these 4 mid to late first round picks MAYBE mature into something decent. Or watch them become Lassi Thompson, JBD, and Brannstrom?

We're done building. Enough waiting around. It's go time.

This is a team near last place. The last thing they should be doing is trading their picks.

The team has done what you've suggested the past 2 seasons, and it is impossible to say anything other than it was a gigantic mistake.

They need to be sellers this deadline, it's not even a question. Use those picks at the draft for how the deem fit.

We need 1st round picks. A team who hasn't even made the playoffs yet, with a cap team, with no help coming on ELC's because they have the worst prospect pool in the league is destined for disappointment. We will get one this draft.

I understand first round picks are sexy but like why do we need 15 of them this year.

Because we need currency to add players this draft, and teams who are trading for players at the deadline are trading futures.

We have no 1st round prospects to deal, we haven't picked in the first 2 rounds, essentially, for the past 2 years, our cupboards are embarrassingly bare.

They want to add a guy or two this draft, or trade away a contract or two, they need some ammo. The more the better. Find a team looking to trade a Romonov or a Dach or a Jones type player and use your futures to pull it off.

 

[BondraTime]

Not really, we have a lot of the pieces we needed from the draft. It’s time to put it all together and we don’t really need to wait another 6 years for these draft picks to potentially turn into something. The franchise needs to win starting now. I’d recommend keeping into firsts this year but 2nds, 3rds etc can be moved for help

Draft picks don't take 6 years anymore, if you're good, you're pushing a lineup within 2, 3 years max.

We traded away 7th 1 year and a half ago, that guy is already playing 20 mins a night for the Hawks blueline.

We traded 12th 8 months ago, and the guy taken 13th is already playing in the top 6 with Buffalo.

We made mistakes trading away all of our draft capital to win now, the Sens are in the exact same spot they were then, but with a much higher cap hit. They need to be adding prospects.

The need all the picks they can get, and they should be using some of the added picks to find a RD, and using the rest to restock their absolutely bare cupboards, that will be needed.

 

[Crosside]

Draft picks don't take 6 years anymore, if you're good, you're pushing a lineup within 2, 3 years max.

We traded away 7th 1 year and a half ago, that guy is already playing 20 mins a night for the Hawks blueline.

We traded 12th 8 months ago, and the guy taken 13th is already playing in the top 6 with Buffalo.

We made mistakes trading away all of our draft capital to win now, the Sens are in the exact same spot they were then, but with a much higher cap hit. They need to be adding prospects.

The need all the picks they can get, and they should be using some of the added picks to find a RD, and using the rest to restock their absolutely bare cupboards, that will be needed.

The mistake was to target the wrong player with our pick. Maybe Staois and Bowness will bring right players

 

[Loach]

Not really, we have a lot of the pieces we needed from the draft. It’s time to put it all together and we don’t really need to wait another 6 years for these draft picks to potentially turn into something. The franchise needs to win starting now. I’d recommend keeping into firsts this year but 2nds, 3rds etc can be moved for help

Wrong.

 

[BondraTime]

The mistake was to target the wrong player with our pick. Maybe Staois and Bowness will bring right players

And due to those mistakes, they have no prospects, you can't just double down and have a re-do.

They need to keep any picks they have in the top of the 1st, the only picks that should be available, are the Bos 1st and whatever draft picks they acquire, which should be ~1st + two 2nds this deadline.

They should be leaving this draft with no fewer than 4 picks in the top 2 rounds, not including the picks they trade away.

If you can't find an age and contract appropriate RD for Bos 1st + some of the trade deadline tyoe package, go to UFA and find someone.

They need to be making those top 2 round selections.

 

[BankStreetParade]

And due to those mistakes, they have no prospects, you can't just double down and have a re-do.

They need to keep any picks they have in the top of the 1st, the only picks that should be available, are the Bos 1st and whatever draft picks they acquire, which should be ~1st + two 2nds this deadline.

They should be leaving this draft with no fewer than 4 picks in the top 2 rounds, not including the picks they trade away.

If you can't find an age and contract appropriate RD for Bos 1st + some of the trade deadline tyoe package, go to UFA and find someone.

They need to be making those top 2 round selections.

Pretty much all of the most important positions are filled. Where are all of these prospects going to play? What positions are they going to graduate into that won't be filled by high-quality veterans acquired via trade or free agency?

This team doesn't need more youth, the inexperience is already abundant across the lineup. They need guys who know how to play a role in this league and can provide offensive and defensive depth. Restocking the cupboards will happen naturally through the draft, you don't need to make extra plans for more draft capital. And the whole idea of an empty prospect pool is so overrated. Who cares? Prospects aren't going to win us a championship in the next 3 years. The guys we've waited the last 3-4 years for are the ones who are going to do it or not. It's like you're worrying more about the contingency plan of not getting there than you are about how this current group gets there.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

This is a team near last place. The last thing they should be doing is trading their picks.

The team has done what you've suggested the past 2 seasons, and it is impossible to say anything other than it was a gigantic mistake.

They need to be sellers this deadline, it's not even a question. Use those picks at the draft for how the deem fit.

We need 1st round picks. A team who hasn't even made the playoffs yet, with a cap team, with no help coming on ELC's because they have the worst prospect pool in the league is destined for disappointment. We will get one this draft.

Because we need currency to add players this draft, and teams who are trading for players at the deadline are trading futures.

We have no 1st round prospects to deal, we haven't picked in the first 2 rounds, essentially, for the past 2 years, our cupboards are embarrassingly bare.

They want to add a guy or two this draft, or trade away a contract or two, they need some ammo. The more the better. Find a team looking to trade a Romonov or a Dach or a Jones type player and use your futures to pull it off.

We have two firsts for that. I just don’t understand trading chychrun for a first to then acquire another chychrun. If the guy we acquire is good they will also need another contract.

Seems like a lot of maneuvering to possibly end up in the same spot.

And that’s IF players of that calibre are available. Not sure a guy like Dach is something we want. But even young top 4 d men.