Proposal: Free agency edition Trade Rumours/Proposals [MOD - Stay on Topic] 5

[UglyPuckling]

Yeah his "rock solid defenseman" reputation is what we both know of him - im fine with admitting that I don't EVER watch Calgary or Vancouver, unless they are playing the Sens - but you didn't answer the question or show that you are any more aware of his actual play style than I am....

Can he move guys from in front of the net with his physical prowess? Can he stand guys up at the blueline? Or is he just a defensive stalwart that doesn't necessarily need size to defend?

Not asking you by the way, questions already been answered by others (not really is the answer Im getting).

Tanev is a very good defensive defenseman meaning that he's good at all the defensive elements that a defenseman needs to have and that a coach would love to have. He blocks shots, doesn't give away pucks, is effective in front of the net, suppresses the opposition’s shots and chances, etc. Effective I suppose is a key word here.

Maybe not the big bruiser who crushes people with huge body checks that you seem to place high emphasis on though, although I wouldn't describe Zub in that way either for reference.

Maybe this Friedman article will help?

Report: Senators Interested in Defenceman Chris Tanev

According to Sportsnet’s Elliotte Friedman, the Senators are interested in the Calgary Flames’ Chris Tanev.

gnichols.substack.com

 

[Big Muddy]

Heres how it looks via capfriendly.

Thank You - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

Thank you for the amazing 9 years

www.capfriendly.com

Cool.

Whether Pinto could handle 2C duties I suppose is a question that should be tabled. I'm not sure I would have the answer on that question.

Not a lot of cap space remaining, just $49k. It's a 21 player roster with only 6 defenders. So, there might be an issue if there's injury to a defender while the team is on a road trip.

But it's interesting and you've got the numbers to work & met cap. So, you've done some good work and I'm sure I can't say with certainty what would be better or worse. There's always going to be some debate I suppose.

 

[NB613]

Cool.

Whether Pinto could handle 2C duties I suppose is a question that should be tabled. I'm not sure I would have the answer on that question.

Not a lot of cap space remaining, just $49k. It's a 21 player roster with only 6 defenders. So, there might be an issue if there's injury to a defender while the team is on a road trip.

But it's interesting and you've got the numbers to work & met cap. So, you've done some good work and I'm sure I can't say with certainty what would be better or worse. There's always going to be some debate I suppose.

The slotting of players is a lot less important than the composition of players and their salary. Ie - Imo Grieg is better at C and Norris is better suited as a winger. But they all can play C. Depending on game, coach will switch up as needed.

If a D is needed then we send down Ostapchuk and call up an ELC D from the minors. Agreed on cap tightness point over a road trip. We might be able to squeeze $800K across the various signings

 

[HSF]

only way im trading Chychrun if it actually gets us a player that can help us now like a Jenner or a Konecny.

Otherwise just sign him

 

[Big Muddy]

The slotting of players is a lot less important than the composition of players and their salary. Ie - Imo Grieg is better at C and Norris is better suited as a winger. But they all can play C. Depending on game, coach will switch up as needed.

If a D is needed then we send down Ostapchuk and call up an ELC D from the minors. Agreed on cap tightness point over a road trip. We might be able to squeeze $800K across the various signings

We did see Pinto as the 2C last year with mediocre results. He would have different wingers though. So, it's not easy to predict how well this combo will play together & we haven't seen how well Norris plays as a winger either. Not saying it will be a problem. It's just that we don't know. In theory, it should be easier for a center to make the transition to winger as a center has a more complicated role and has more responsibilities. Norris definitely has the shot.

I agree its really important how players play together and how they compliment each other or cover for the other players weaknesses.

I kind of like Pinto as 3C because he could dominate other 3rd lines potentially, and we would have pretty deep depth at center. Norris hasn't been a ball of fire this year perhaps because it's not easy to be at peak after a year off.

I'm just trying to be as objective with the pros and cons as I possibly can. You've definitely added quality players to the defense. Like I said, it's very hard to say on balance whether it's better or worse, or at least, for me it is.

 

[ottawagm]

What about something around:


Norris + Forsberg + ? -> Swayman + Carlo

 

[tardigrade81]

What about something around:


Norris + Forsberg + ? -> Swayman + Carlo

I like it

 

[Wallet Inspector]

I don't think Ullmark would extend here.

Swayman should be our target. Should have been last summer, but alas.

Fits in with our core age group better and is an RFA.

Boston will almost certainly choose Swayman over Ullmark.

 

[Keli]

Boston can get much better players for Swayman and Carlo

 

[dumbdick]

Trading Norris when his value is at its lowest would be a new level of poor asset management that would make Dorion blush.

Or maybe his trade value just keeps going down from here, and now is the exact right time to move him.

This aint a science.

But you're selling the expectation on the player, not the current production. If GMs think like you do, and believe they'd be buying low because he's going to bounce back to an $8M calibre player, all that gets priced in on the trade.

My concern is he bounces back to consistently play like a $4M player. Then that expectation is gone, along with any ability to trade him.

 

[Crosside]

Per David Pagnotta, Sens interested in Jonathan Berggren

 

[GCK]

Or maybe his trade value just keeps going down from here, and now is the exact right time to move him.

This aint a science.

But you're selling the expectation on the player, not the current production. If GMs think like you do, and believe they'd be buying low because he's going to bounce back to an $8M calibre player, all that gets priced in on the trade.

My concern is he bounces back to consistently play like a $4M player. Then that expectation is gone, along with any ability to trade him.

It’s always smart to trade away a top 6 centre who plays well defensively and can pot 30-40 goals.

When players miss an entire season, summer conditioning is limited and then have no training camp they shouldn’t need time to get back to normal.

 

[Micklebot]

Per David Pagnotta, Sens interested in Jonathan Berggren

Not exactly the vet we've said we're after...

 

[Xspyrit]

Trading Joseph would be beyond moronic, we need to add players like him, not subtract

Chychrun will cost 8M to 9.5M per season, depending on how aggressive he wants to be.

I don't see it. Anything over 8.0 AAV for Chychrun would be an overpayment. Sure, it's possible that we or another team does it but IMO he should be more around 7.0 AAV

Here is the list of D-men making between 8.0 and 9.5 (next season) :

Zachary Werenski, Seth Jones, Charlie McAvoy, Adam Fox, Darnell Nurse, Roman Josi, Cale Makar, Dougie Hamilton, Alex Pietrangelo, Mikhail Sergachev, Miro Heiskanen, Owen Power, Jake Sanderson, Brent Burns, John Carlson, Jacob Trouba, Thomas Chabot

Here are the guys who will make 7.0 to 8.0 AAV :

Hedman, Q. Hughes, Orlov, Spurgeon, Ekblad, Reilly, Dunn, D. Toews and M.E Vlasic

Flyers possibly going to trade Scott Laughton.

He's someone I could see Staois being very interested in.

Signed for 2 more years at 3M. Can play C but is better at LW. Only 20P/50GP this year but had 43P/78GP last year.

Could see something based around Boucher + BOS 1st + more.

Scott Laughton is one of the most overrated players I have seen in a while, he's a glorified 3rd liner. The only reason he got 43 pts last season is because he had Brady Tkachuk ice-time and PP opportunity. I was arguing with a Flyers fan last summer who wanted Ottawa's 1st or Ridly Greig to take on Mathieu Joseph BURDEN of a contract AND wanted 1st + 2nd for Laughton

His proposals were like : Laughton for Joseph + 1st + 1st + 2nd

So not only Joseph > Laughton, but SL is nowhere near worth that. If a team wants to pay that, let them do it, hopefully they're from the Atlantic

If Staios pays Boston's 1st + Boucher for Laughton, he'd track to be the new Pierre. I wouldn't pay more than Boucher + Sens 2nd in 2025 (and that's because I give Boucher a lower value than most)

 

[dumbdick]

It’s always smart to trade away a top 6 centre who plays well defensively and can pot 30-40 goals.

When players miss an entire season, summer conditioning is limited and then have no training camp they shouldn’t need time to get back to normal.

So we simply have a disagreement on the player norris is going to be.

And to be clear, I don't know exactly what he's going to be. Theres a certain chance he rebounds and then some, and becomes dominant. And a certain chance he doesn't. Just a difference of how to weight the likelihood of those outcomes.

 

[Xspyrit]

So we simply have a disagreement on the player norris is going to be.

And to be clear, I don't know exactly what he's going to be. Theres a certain chance he rebounds and then some, and becomes dominant. And a certain chance he doesn't. Just a difference of how to weight the likelihood of those outcomes.

Don't neglect the DJ Dorion aspect. We finally purged the glaring organizational weaknesses, almost every player is starting to look much better and it's already being reflected in advanced stats of the last few weeks

Norris' defensive game has been bouncing back and I think that was the first objective for him. What is not back is the Sens PP in general, several players' numbers are affected by this.

 

[dumbdick]

Don't neglect the DJ Dorion aspect. We finally purged the glaring organizational weaknesses, almost every player is starting to look much better and it's already being reflected in advanced stats of the last few weeks

Norris' defensive game has been bouncing back and I think that was the first objective for him. What is not back is the Sens PP in general, several players' numbers are affected by this.

This is kind of what worries me though.

I feel like Norris is the type of player that has to score to be an effective top 6 player, and he mostly scores in one fashion.

Change the system, or find a guy who is more effective as the PP1 shooter option, and he could really really struggle to ever live up to that contract.

 

[Bileur]

Not exactly the vet we've said we're after...

Pagnotta’s been beating that drum for a while but I really don’t see the fit.

Small, pretty soft, questionable defensively, will be 24 when next season starts and hasn’t been able to steal a spot on a team in similar stages of development. He shouldn’t be the target.

 

[ottawagm]

Per David Pagnotta, Sens interested in Jonathan Berggren

I'm ok to move Kubalik back for him... that's about it

 

[OgieO]

I thought Berggren was a strong defensive player?

 

[dumbdick]

Pagnotta’s been beating that drum for a while but I really don’t see the fit.

Small, pretty soft, questionable defensively, will be 24 when next season starts and hasn’t been able to steal a spot on a team in similar stages of development. He shouldn’t be the target.

Can a guy like martin transform his game a bit during the run to the end of the year?

I'm okay with taking a flyer on a skill guy like this if the price is low enough.

 

[frightenedinmatenum2]

The only logical move if you move chych is either bring home Clarke or make a move for Jiricek.

If it’s between Weager and Chych I’d rather Chych.

Clarke would cost.

Chych (50% retained for both years) + Bos 1st

For

Clarke + Kaliyev

They aren't getting Clarke for Chychrun. Anything is possible, but it is unlikely. If Chychrun was still in Arizona, would you trade Pinto for him?

There are other logical reasons to move Chychrun. People have to remember that draft picks are currency. The picks or prospects can be used in other trades. Or adding additional prospects in the system can enable a team to move a different prospect in a trade.

The logical reason to move with Chychrun is to sell high at the deadline when it is a seller's market, and get the best possible package. Then take those assets into the summer and re-tool during what is usually a buyer's market at the draft+July 1st.

Chychrun is a pending UFA next year. Based on comparable contracts, he will likely ask for 8M-9.5M with a NTC or NMC and possible signing bonuses. The Senators already have Chabot, who plays a similar role. We already know that the trade market for Chabot would require the Senators to take back money, it's soft. Trading Chabot is not a viable option.

The only way I see Chychrun being on our roster on opening day next year is if the trade offers are soft, to the point that they decide to hold on to him.

 

[frightenedinmatenum2]

Per David Pagnotta, Sens interested in Jonathan Berggren

If this is true, I could see this being our change of scenery move with Sokolov.

Sokolov and a pick for Berggren.

Berggren might be done in Detroit. If they keep him, he will cost 1.5M-2.0M on a 1 year deal next season because of his leverage with arbitration. He also won't be waiver exempt again next season.

Both Sokolov and Berggren are the same age, both have produced in the AHL but failed to stick in the NHL. Both are likely not going to be qualified by their respective teams. Berggren should be worth more, because he had that one big season so the Sens probably kick in a pick.

 

[Dionysus]

Per David Pagnotta, Sens interested in Jonathan Berggren

Should have been in the DBC trade rather than Kubalik.

 

[Relapsing]

If this is true, I could see this being our change of scenery move with Sokolov.

Sokolov and a pick for Berggren.

Berggren might be done in Detroit. If they keep him, he will cost 1.5M-2.0M on a 1 year deal next season because of his leverage with arbitration. He also won't be waiver exempt again next season.

Both Sokolov and Berggren are the same age, both have produced in the AHL but failed to stick in the NHL. Both are likely not going to be qualified by their respective teams. Berggren should be worth more, because he had that one big season so the Sens probably kick in a pick.

Pass. No picks thrown in to get marginal upgrades on players that aren't even with the main club.

We gotta stop doing this. Adding draft capital to make marginal moves in the bottom 6 or bottom 2 d pairings.