Proposal: Free agency edition Trade Rumours/Proposals [MOD - Stay on Topic] 5

[Sens of Anarchy]

There probably is a market for him, but unfortunately there's zero indication it's being explored by the Sens.

For some reason they are intent on dumping Joseph, and if that fails it seems the backup option is trading Brannstrom.

or both ... its an option. Brannstrom alone leaves them very tight with little to no flexibility

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Leaving this make room for Pinto thing this late was a gamble. Not many teams have room. Some that have room will look to add picks to take on money the Sens want to shed and Others rebuilding could be looking to give some of their internal guys they have been developing a chance when they need to plug a hole.

I really dislike any sentiment that blames this on Pinto . Dorion overspent plain and simple. Don't pass this buck on to Pinto. I can't explain his thinking. It just looks like a screw up to me. I am not sure how long he can tread water on this .

 

[Senator Stanley]

By all intents and purposes it seems Vancouver is getting some value back, if it was purely a dump then I doubt multiple teams would be interested. Plus if it was a dump it would only be the bad teams interested but it is rumored that teams that are trying for playoff spots are the ones calling (jackets/predators/capitals and one unknown)

Until we see what money is coming and going in the deal, it's impossible to comment on value. But my point was that it's a completely different trade than what Ottawa would be doing with Kubalik.

 

[Ouroboros]

Friedman reported the Canucks are telling teams that their goal in the Garland trade is to free up somewhere in the vicinity of ~1.5M cap dollars. That will help them make a trade - it is exponentially easier to swap contracts than it is to get a team to take an entire 5M dollar hit off your hands.

I would expect that when the deal happens it will be a one-for-one swap for a guy like Trevor Van Riemsdyk, Andrew Peeke or Jeremy Lauzon.

That's a different sort of deal than what Ottawa would want to do with Kubalik.

 

[GCK]

There has do be a market for kubalik if 4 teams are in on Garland. Similar production but Garland costs twice as much and has term. Garland is more valuable but not by so much that it means kubalik has 0 value

Vancouver is willing to retain and take a contract back apparently. Big, big difference.

 

[aragorn]

Of course Dorion is exploring trade options to fit Pinto into their salary structure, that's his job, because he knows the value that Pinto improves the team. I don't see it as a problem, I see it as part of the job now to move pieces to make room to sign him, he had an opportunity to sign & trade for better players during the summer than we had last yr & now has to do some work to also get Pinto signed. Tarasenko could have gone somewhere else, same for Korpisalo & Kubalik was the return for the DBC.

And while some criticize him for not getting Pinto signed fast enough & will likely never be happy that he waited, it will eventually get done & sometimes you have to wait for the price to come down. Who would have been happy if he made the trade to sign Pinto before training camp, but it cost that Det 1st? NOBODY, he would have been crucified for that. Waiting for the price to come down for what Pinto's side was asking & the value of assets it costs to make a trade & a better return might actually make more sense.

Before the season the price may have been too high, waiting until the season starts puts some pressure on Pinto's team to reduce their ask & it's given Joseph & Brannstrom the opportunity to increase their value which hopefully results in PD paying less & getting more in return to free up the money to sign Pinto especially if another team is strapped with injuries. Luckily for PD anyway the team is playing well & there isn't as much pressure to force a deal quickly & he has some time to make a better deal.

 

[frightenedinmatenum2]

If Norris is back for good, and the team is winning, I don't see them messing with the chemistry by moving a top 9 forward out in a trade where they have to burn a 1st or 2nd round pick to get someone to take them.

Unless a season-ending injury to a player enables the Senators to use LTIR to acquire the cap space needed to sign Pinto, he will sign for league minimum on a 1 year deal and save face by selling it as "I couldn't sit out any longer, I wanted to help the boys, woo".

 

[aragorn]

Where does Joseph fit on this top 9? I don't think he does given Kubalik's offensive ability it's much more likely he can repeat as a 40 pt player with Norris & Batherson than Joseph can since he has never had a 40 pt season. In fact, he has only had one season over 20 pts & that was his first NHl season while Kubalik has had over 30 pts twice & over 40 pts twice in the last 4 yrs, he's clearly the better offensive player. And given he will be playing with a great playmaker in Batherson & another great shooter in Norri he should get his share of pts & goals with those two. Joseph could be a good energy player on the 4th line however, he is too expensive for the 4th line & Kelly does that an affordable price. Given that most of the dead cap will be gone next yr, I wonder if Ott would be willing to eat some of his salary for the next two yrs? This is one of the best top nine Ott has had in ... quite a while.

Tkachuk - Stutzle - Giroux
Kubalik - Norris - Batherson
Greig - Pinto - Tarasenko

 

[Icelevel]

Where does Joseph fit on this top 9? I don't think he does given Kubalik's offensive ability it's much more likely he can repeat as a 40 pt player with Norris & Batherson than Joseph can since he has never had a 40 pt season. In fact, he has only had one season over 20 pts & that was his first NHl season while Kubalik has had over 30 pts twice & over 40 pts twice in the last 4 yrs, he's clearly the better offensive player. And given he will be playing with a great playmaker in Batherson & another great shooter in Norri he should get his share of pts & goals with those two. Joseph could be a good energy player on the 4th line however, he is too expensive for the 4th line & Kelly does that an affordable price. Given that most of the dead cap will be gone next yr, I wonder if Ott would be willing to eat some of his salary for the next two yrs? This is one of the best top nine Ott has had in ... quite a while.

Tkachuk - Stutzle - Giroux
Kubalik - Norris - Batherson
Greig - Pinto - Tarasenko

Tkachuk - Stutzle - Giroux
Kubalik - Norris - Batherson
Joseph - Pinto - Tarasenko
Kelly/Greig-Greig/Kastelic-Kastelic/Macewen

 

[SenatorsLegionary]

Friedman reported the Canucks are telling teams that their goal in the Garland trade is to free up somewhere in the vicinity of ~1.5M cap dollars. That will help them make a trade - it is exponentially easier to swap contracts than it is to get a team to take an entire 5M dollar hit off your hands.

I would expect that when the deal happens it will be a one-for-one swap for a guy like Trevor Van Riemsdyk, Andrew Peeke or Jeremy Lauzon.

That's a different sort of deal than what Ottawa would want to do with Kubalik.

Couldn't we do something similar with Kubalik? I feel like the easiest way to get a deal done in the current cap environment would be to be willing to take back a contract of say ~$1.3M or less so that we are freeing up somewhere between $1.2M-1.7M in a trade. Those savings plus sending down one of Chartier/MacEwen would then give between $2.0M and $2.5M in cap space depending on the contract we take back, which should hopefully be sufficient to sign Pinto.

To find possible targets, I think it would be beneficial to focus on bottom 6 players who can contribute on the penalty kill or younger roster bubble type players that recently lost waiver exemption.

Some options that I find interesting:

Montreal - Jesse Ylonen: I'm not sure that he's in their long-term plans and Dach is out for the year. They may be willing to take on Kubalik to replace some of Dach's production for the bulk of the season and would value being able to flip Kubalik for a 2nd or 3rd at the deadline. Ylonen skates well and can play on the PK, plus I find his play style is suitable to slot higher in the lineup in case of injuries

Chicago - Taylor Raddysh or Boris Katchouk: I feel like both guys are a tad too old for the age range of Chicago's rebuild to be in their long-term plans. Raddysh put up 20 goals last year (a good chunk coming from increased PP opportunities on a bad team) so an additional later pick may need to be added from our end if he's the target. Otherwise, both guys are defensively responsible, can penalty kill and would fit well on the 4th line with potential to play on the 3rd line as well.

Columbus - Emil Bemstrom or Liam Foudy: I'll admit, I don't know either player that well, they are more contract fits than anything else. The Jackets have the cap space, and they can use more scoring as per the rumors that they are in on Garland. So far this season, both players seem to be getting 4th line minutes when they dress for the games. I know Foudy was more highly regarded a few years back, but so far it doesn't look like he's living up to the hype. Someone correct me if I'm way off on the value here.

Los Angeles - Jaret Anderson-Dolan or Carl Grundstrom: Arvidsson needs back surgery and will be out for a while, so LA has the LTIR space and the need to acquire some depth scoring. Grundstrom makes $1.3M so top end of the range that we could realistically take back, this would be the option if LA wanted to limit their cap increase to $1.2M. JAD was waived at the end of training camp. He is now up with the big club but only dressed for one game so far. Has some untapped potential but doesn't seem to be getting the opportunity with the Kings, strikes me as a player who can benefit from a fresh start with a new team.

 

[GCK]

So what did LM’s tweet mean ? If there is a cap clearing trade in place what’s the holdup.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

So what did LM’s tweet mean ? If there is a cap clearing trade in place what’s the holdup.

When I first read it I thought he meant there’s a trade for pinto in place if they don’t come to an agreenemnt.


But I think he meant there’s a trade in place but pintos contract demands may not be what we think they are

 

[Sens Vader]

So what did LM’s tweet mean ? If there is a cap clearing trade in place what’s the holdup.

He is basically saying Ottawa has a trade in place to clear cap space, but will not do so until Pinto's camp signs a contract.

The assumption would be that the cap space it would clear would be more than the contract offer to Pinto so Ottawa has more wiggle room throughout the season.

Ottawa does not want to be in a position where they make the trade and clear room, but this leads to Pinto trying to re-negotiate for a few hundred grand more.

 

[Very Stable Genius]

If there was a trade in place, Kubalik/Joseph/Brannstrom would be healthy scratched.

 

[guyzeur]

If there was a trade in place, Kubalik/Joseph/Brannstrom would be healthy scratched.

For a trade a team doesn't healthy scratched players this early in the season

 

[ottawagm]

If there was a trade in place, Kubalik/Joseph/Brannstrom would be healthy scratched.

We haven't had extra players to do so until Norris returned.

 

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

Tkachuk-Stutzle-Giroux
Grieg-Norris-Batherson
Joseph-Pinto-Tarasenko

Those are the lines.

I love Kubalik, but he is a luxury, and I think the Kubalik with Norris and Bath could be serious defensive liability some games.

Grieg has proven he is here to stay. He has shown some of the best hands of any Sens player this year with some savvy play and grit/work ethic.

If I had to be extremely honest, we need everyone, and Brannstrom is the one to go. But we will need to find a passable depth D in return.

 

[GCK]

Tkachuk-Stutzle-Giroux
Grieg-Norris-Batherson
Joseph-Pinto-Tarasenko

Those are the lines.

I love Kubalik, but he is a luxury, and I think the Kubalik with Norris and Bath could be serious defensive liability some games.

Grieg has proven he is here to stay. He has shown some of the best hands of any Sens player this year with some savvy play and grit/work ethic.

If I had to be extremely honest, we need everyone, and Brannstrom is the one to go. But we will need to find a passable depth D in return.

Kubalik is a smart player who is always on the right side of the puck, Norris is our best defensive centre at the moment, not sure how that line would be a serious defensive liability.

 

[frightenedinmatenum2]

If there was a trade in place, Kubalik/Joseph/Brannstrom would be healthy scratched.

We don't have extra players.

Additionally, I suspect our trade partner will make the trade to get an asset, not to get the player we send their way. If the trade is something like a 2nd or 3rd round pick attached to Kubalik or Brannstrom, the team may not care if they are injured. I highly doubt this will be a hockey trade for whoever acquires the player.

 

[Micklebot]

Vilardi out with an MCL injury, I wonder if they'd be interested in Kubalik

 

[Ice-Tray]

Patience is paramount. Injuries are starting to hit around the league, and everyone knows we have an extra guy or two available.

 

[Hale The Villain]

Pinto + Chabot for Dobson + Pageau could be a deal that works great for both teams

 

[The Devilish Buffoon]

Pinto + Chabot for Dobson + Pageau could be a deal that works great for both teams

 

[NyQuil]

Pinto + Chabot for Dobson + Pageau could be a deal that works great for both teams

He sounds a lot like Chabot.

I think Dobson's biggest problem is lack of game acuity. He does not read plays properly and seems surprised when things go south. He'll be chasing a puck behind the net and lack urgency, even when it is clear that the opponent is going to arrive at the puck simultaneously, forcing a panic move that leads to a giveaway. Or, he'll make a cross ice pass in front of his own goalie when the opponent is collapsing in the slot. Lot's of mental mistakes and slow reaction time.

Player Discussion: - Noah Dobson

We tried this with Romanov: it was horrible Emphasis on "good". Romanov was trash up until 20 games ago.

forums.hfboards.com

Which means getting Pageau for Pinto.

 

[Hale The Villain]

He sounds a lot like Chabot.

Player Discussion: - Noah Dobson

We tried this with Romanov: it was horrible Emphasis on "good". Romanov was trash up until 20 games ago.

forums.hfboards.com

Which means getting Pageau for Pinto.

Dobson is about the same level. 50-60P offensive D that struggles defensively at times.

He is 3 years younger though and I have more faith he'll improve his defensive game than Chabot.

Plus he isn't signed for 8M x 5YRs (9.2M average in real salary) to play his off-side.