GDT: Free agency edition Trade Rumours/Proposals [MOD - Stay on Topic] 3

[Cosmix]

Burns put up his highest point total the year Karlsson joined, Karlsson had 25 points in 15 games that year before he got injured, and that San Jose team almost won the cup and probably would have without injuries.

So it worked fine when the team was healthy.

Two excellent D'men is NOT A PROBLEMO !

Crouse signed a 5 year contract with Arizona in 2022. I'd be kind of surprised that he's available.

Crouse would be expensive to acquire; a first round pick + !

 

[Agent Zuuuub]

I never said they couldn't work together, I said they were redundant.

Even with some retention, it's a lot of cap hit for the two of them.

I just think that are more efficient usages of cap space.

Carolina's probably going to need a third team to get involved.

I think the fairest way to judge the redundancy is the first year where the team actually had a chance to be good. The years after the teams were bad based on factors outside of Burns and Karlsson.

But that first year it was very impressive hockey. They had Goodrow on the 4th line and Donskoi, Nyquist on the 3rd. San Jose would roll 4 lines that could score as well as two Norris winners back to back. It seemed like they always had the opposition on the backfoot. Just constant wave of pressure.

It was a dominant team that even when they had a bad game they would still win.

idk did not seem much redundancy.

Maybe they will be redundant in Carolina. But San Jose was imo proof that they can work, and Carolina is also a 4 line team.

 

[Wondercarrot]

Truly insane. I love Konecny and Keller and Crouse they are great players but the idea that we should trade more draft capital is just bonkers.

The cupboards are dry and we haven’t made the playoffs in 6 years. This team has been managed like a Stanley Cup contender when it’s barely been a bubble team.

We need those first round picks desperately. Those are the guys that will come into the lineup in 3-4 years when we’re competing and be huge parts of our third and fourth lines.

There is an argument to made that all that really matters is assembling as great as core as possible as cheaply as possible, for as long as possible, and then subbing around them very year. Sounds pretty straightforward.
Picks are just potential players, if you spend them properly you could trade them all.
You can always add cheap filler. The question is how many longterm “perfect fit guys can you get”

What is the worth of a 1st?
Most of them don’t play a significant number of games and fewer have a significant impact.
So for example while a guy like Scott Laughton may not “be worth a first” he could be if you can keep him for 4-6 years and play on your 3rd line he very well could be.
The odds you get a guy after pick 15, who fits your timeline etc and will play a valuable role are small vs. a sure thing now.

While I love the excitement of draft and it’s important I think context matters immensely.

Personally when I look at the core, I see them as a team that along the way will compete for a cup or has cup potential.

Tkachuk Stutzle
Norris Batherson
Pinto

Chychrun Chabot
Sanderson Zub

That’s the core. Keep them all for 8 years and fill in around them. Couldn’t care less how many picks we have over the next 5 years as long as they are well spent. If you can add a Keller and keep him with that core then it’s a no brainer IMO.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

Anyone else have a feeling we're living in the darkest timeline? What if we're about to lose Batherson and that's why Tarasenko is still unsigned. Losing Debrincat/Batherson/Formenton is big woof

And then giroux gone in two years lol. Brady and stutzle and Sanderson will be demanding trades soon and the re build will begin anew

 

[Ice-Tray]

There is an argument to made that all that really matters is assembling as great as core as possible as cheaply as possible, for as long as possible, and then subbing around them very year. Sounds pretty straightforward.
Picks are just potential players, if you spend them properly you could trade them all.
You can always add cheap filler. The question is how many longterm “perfect fit guys can you get”

What is the worth of a 1st?
Most of them don’t play a significant number of games and fewer have a significant impact.
So for example while a guy like Scott Laughton may not “be worth a first” he could be if you can keep him for 4-6 years and play on your 3rd line he very well could be.
The odds you get a guy after pick 15, who fits your timeline etc and will play a valuable role are small vs. a sure thing now.

While I love the excitement of draft and it’s important I think context matters immensely.

Personally when I look at the core, I see them as a team that along the way will compete for a cup or has cup potential.

Tkachuk Stutzle
Norris Batherson
Pinto

Chychrun Chabot
Sanderson Zub

That’s the core. Keep them all for 8 years and fill in around them. Couldn’t care less how many picks we have over the next 5 years as long as they are well spent. If you can add a Keller and keep him with that core then it’s a no brainer IMO.

What about Keller AND Crouse…..

 

[Hale The Villain]

The funny thing is that we have a slew of guys right now that will be in the bottom 6 or n their ELCs in three or 4 years already in the pool.

Folks are making too much of a big deal about 1st round picks in my opinion. We are out exactly 1 pick, because he turned into Chych, who is much better than we could hope a 1st becomes, and is exactly in our age group. He is better than a bottom 6 guy in 3-4 years.

We have two first round picks next year, which is great, as we wanted one back for DBC. Getting an age appropriate guy to actually play and score 20 in the NHL is more valuable than a bottom six potential player in 3-4 years.

Crouse would be an amazing get for one of our firsts next year. I would want to trade one for anything, but some guys are absolutely worth it.

From the DeBrincat and Chychrun trades we're out a 1st and three 2nds, and we wasted a 1st and a 2nd on ridiculous reaches for Boucher and Roger the year before.

The cupboard is bone dry. We absolutely cannot afford to deal another 1st+ for immediate help.

Need to get creative after Dorion burned so much draft capital. Frankly if we can sign someone like Tarasenko for 4-5M x 2YRs that would absolutely be a much better move than trading a 1st + a lot more for a guy like Crouse or Laughton.

 

[Mingus Dew]

There is an argument to made that all that really matters is assembling as great as core as possible as cheaply as possible, for as long as possible, and then subbing around them very year. Sounds pretty straightforward.
Picks are just potential players, if you spend them properly you could trade them all.
You can always add cheap filler. The question is how many longterm “perfect fit guys can you get”

What is the worth of a 1st?
Most of them don’t play a significant number of games and fewer have a significant impact.
So for example while a guy like Scott Laughton may not “be worth a first” he could be if you can keep him for 4-6 years and play on your 3rd line he very well could be.
The odds you get a guy after pick 15, who fits your timeline etc and will play a valuable role are small vs. a sure thing now.

While I love the excitement of draft and it’s important I think context matters immensely.

Personally when I look at the core, I see them as a team that along the way will compete for a cup or has cup potential.

Tkachuk Stutzle
Norris Batherson
Pinto

Chychrun Chabot
Sanderson Zub

That’s the core. Keep them all for 8 years and fill in around them. Couldn’t care less how many picks we have over the next 5 years as long as they are well spent. If you can add a Keller and keep him with that core then it’s a no brainer IMO.

Good post. I will say, though, that for a team like Ottawa I think drafting players that are more likely to sign with you is a bonus as well. We’ll never be a UFA destination.

 

[Big Muddy]

Crouse would be expensive to acquire; a first round pick + !

IF he's even available, which I would doubt. The Yotes just put him under contract not that long ago for 5 years.

And the Yotes made a public statement recently that they would try to acquire players.

The Yotes for example picked up Zucker and Kerfoot.

Arizona Coyotes General Manager Bill Armstrong has been extremely busy lately.

He wouldn't have it any other way.

Armstrong, who just wrapped up a 12-pick NHL Draft on Thursday, signed six players on Saturday - a whirlwind of activity on what was just the first day of free agency.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

From the DeBrincat and Chychrun trades we're out a 1st and three 2nds, and we wasted a 1st and a 2nd on ridiculous reaches for Boucher and Roger the year before.

The cupboard is bone dry. We absolutely cannot afford to deal another 1st+ for immediate help.

Need to get creative after Dorion burned so much draft capital. Frankly if we can sign someone like Tarasenko for 4-5M x 2YRs that would absolutely be a much better move than trading a 1st + a lot more for a guy like Crouse or Laughton.

I agree with the approach. Getting Tarasenko for 2 years at 4-5m will be the tough part.
I would be in on Tatar as well...at a lesser price

If we can't get either of them... We have to get someone.. Baily, Suter, Erik Staal?... Slim pickins on the UFA market.. Like slim enough to use Belleville players

 

[scout20]

What about signing (RFA) Trent Frederic from Boston to add some depth scoring,

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

What about signing (RFA) Trent Frederic from Boston to add some depth scoring,

Going to Arb with the Bruins.. we can't just sign him

 

[GCK]

Crouse signed a 5 year contract with Arizona in 2022. I'd be kind of surprised that he's available.

It depends what you mean by available. They are not likely actively shopping him but he’s probably not untouchable. What is Arizona’s timeline ? Would Greig and a pick swap align better for their build up ?

 

[JD1]

And then giroux gone in two years lol. Brady and stutzle and Sanderson will be demanding trades soon and the re build will begin anew

Why is Giroux gone in two years? Seems pretty much likè he wanted to get his family settled in what will be their permanent location

Strikes me as more likely that 2 years from now he signs again at a far cheaper aav and plays more of a depth, faceoff, pp2 role.

 

[JD1]

From the DeBrincat and Chychrun trades we're out a 1st and three 2nds, and we wasted a 1st and a 2nd on ridiculous reaches for Boucher and Roger the year before.

The cupboard is bone dry. We absolutely cannot afford to deal another 1st+ for immediate help.

Need to get creative after Dorion burned so much draft capital. Frankly if we can sign someone like Tarasenko for 4-5M x 2YRs that would absolutely be a much better move than trading a 1st + a lot more for a guy like Crouse or Laughton.

Without looking it up i remember paying a 1st, 2nd, and 3rd for DeBrincat and a 1st, and 2 2nds Chychrun

We got back Chychrun. Do you think the Chychrun trade was good? I pretty much think it was a homerun. One of those 2nds was a 2026. So a mid 2nd in 2026 results in a kid that, IF he pans out, plays for us in 2030. Is this really what you want to critize?

We also got back Kubalik who has a 4 year track record of being pretty good at putting the biscuit in the basket. He's cheap. And recently said he's looking for somewhere to settle in. We got a 1st back. We got a 4th. We got acuoung D kid that's twice played for team Canada

If you're so focused on the future, we've got 2 1sts next year.

You probably should look at these two trades separately. The DeBrincat trade can be looked at in a negative light but i can't see how we can portray the cost to acquire Chychrun as anything other than what it was: a homerun

 

[Big Muddy]

It depends what you mean by available. They are not likely actively shopping him but he’s probably not untouchable. What is Arizona’s timeline ? Would Greig and a pick swap align better for their build up ?

I just don't think a team typically trades a player that they just signed to a contract with term. If I use one of our own players as an example, like Pinto, would we be trading him a year after we signed to him to a new contract with term? It's always possible, but just not likely imho. I guess people see Arizona as a team in perpetual rebuild which I'd guess has something to do with it.

 

[Wondercarrot]

What about Keller AND Crouse…..

Yes pls! Expand the core! lol
Cap goes up 5 million next summer so send all the assets to Arizona and make it happen next summer.
Included a fully resigned Sanderson and Chychrun (who doesnt need it until the following year. So it can all fit just wanted to show final total costs)

I would empty everything we have left. Picks and prospects. This team is awesome.

$89.5 million

F- 53.3
Tkachuk 8.2 Stutzle 8.3 Giroux 6.5
Keller 7.1 Norris 7.9 Batherson 5
Crouse 4.3 Pinto 2 Grieg 1
Guy here 1 Kastelic 1 Macewen 1

D- 31.2
Chabot 8 Chychrun 8
Sanderson 8 Zub 4.2
Kleven 1 JBD 1
? 1

G- 5
Korpisalo 4
Sogaard 1

 

[Sun God Nika]

im feeling that Tarasenko is waiting to see if Toronto will buyout Murray. Maybe Ottawa has told him and his agent that any cap space after Pinto is signed will go to him for 1 year.

Murray buyout would give us 6.3M in space. Pinto signs around 2M. Tarasenko signs a 1 yr 4.3M deal.

 

[Adele Dazeem]

Yes pls! Expand the core! lol
Cap goes up 5 million next summer so send all the assets to Arizona and make it happen next summer.
Included a fully resigned Sanderson and Chychrun (who doesnt need it until the following year. So it can all fit just wanted to show final total costs)

I would empty everything we have left. Picks and prospects. This team is awesome.

$89.5 million

F- 53.3
Tkachuk 8.2 Stutzle 8.3 Giroux 6.5
Keller 7.1 Norris 7.9 Batherson 5
Crouse 4.3 Pinto 2 Grieg 1
Guy here 1 Kastelic 1 Macewen 1

D- 31.2
Chabot 8 Chychrun 8
Sanderson 8 Zub 4.2
Kleven 1 JBD 1
? 1

G- 5
Korpisalo 4
Sogaard 1

We don't have those picks/prospects to make it happen, and I don't think Arizona is itching to get rid of Crouse. Keller is probably available, but he alone would fetch multiple firsts along side young players like Grieg/Kleven.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

1. What do we think Dorion is waiting on ? A Murray buy out?
2. When do we hear about a Pinto signing (A and B)?
A. Before or after the Murray move one way or another?
B. Before or after Dorion acquires another player through a trade or free agency?
3. If Dorion adds a 2/3 line winger will it be via Free Agency or Trade?

 

[BigRig4]

im feeling that Tarasenko is waiting to see if Toronto will buyout Murray. Maybe Ottawa has told him and his agent that any cap space after Pinto is signed will go to him for 1 year.

Murray buyout would give us 6.3M in space. Pinto signs around 2M. Tarasenko signs a 1 yr 4.3M deal.

Toronto doesn’t have room even if they buyout murray they’re like 8m over the cap.

 

[Korpse]

1. What do we think Dorion is waiting on ? A Murray buy out?
2. When do we hear about a Pinto signing (A and B)?
A. Before or after the Murray move one way or another?
B. Before or after Dorion acquires another player through a trade or free agency?
3. If Dorion adds a 2/3 line winger will it be via Free Agency or Trade?

Who says he is the one waiting?

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Who says he is the one waiting?

Good answer where should we take this conversation from here? Maybe you can play along lol
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The 2nd window Buy out regulations are a little weird imo.
Because Toronto has an arbitration case with Samsonov as a team that allows them to use the 2nd buyout window and they can chose to use it to buy Murray out. At least this is my understanding.

These are the arbitration dates set

2023 salary arbitration hearing dates

Hearing dates will take place between July 20 and August 4.

www.nhlpa.com

 

[Korpse]

Good answer where should we take this conversation from here?

Not really a conversation to be had about when moves are going to happen. Summer is long and slow for hockey news.

 

[Wondercarrot]

We don't have those picks/prospects to make it happen, and I don't think Arizona is itching to get rid of Crouse. Keller is probably available, but he alone would fetch multiple firsts along side young players like Grieg/Kleven.

Yeah it’s for sure never happening.
love to know what it would actually take, because I’d probably do it - textbook example of spending picks properly.
I’d give up our entire draft the next 2 years because…who cares!
If I could have this lineup for the next 5 years I’d give up 3 1sts, any 3 or 4 prospects, Brannstrom

It literally would not matter because you have this or close to it for at least 5 years.

Tkachuk Stutzle Giroux
Keller Norris Batherson
Crouse Pinto Greig
Kastelic

Chychrun Chabot
Sanderson Zub
Kleven

Korpisalo
Sogaard

The is virtually no short term price in picks and prospects I wouldn’t pay.
We could actually make that roster/salaries work starting next summer.

Would anyone not do this? Ah summer…

 

[Hale The Villain]

Without looking it up i remember paying a 1st, 2nd, and 3rd for DeBrincat and a 1st, and 2 2nds Chychrun

We got back Chychrun. Do you think the Chychrun trade was good? I pretty much think it was a homerun. One of those 2nds was a 2026. So a mid 2nd in 2026 results in a kid that, IF he pans out, plays for us in 2030. Is this really what you want to critize?

We also got back Kubalik who has a 4 year track record of being pretty good at putting the biscuit in the basket. He's cheap. And recently said he's looking for somewhere to settle in. We got a 1st back. We got a 4th. We got acuoung D kid that's twice played for team Canada

If you're so focused on the future, we've got 2 1sts next year.

You probably should look at these two trades separately. The DeBrincat trade can be looked at in a negative light but i can't see how we can portray the cost to acquire Chychrun as anything other than what it was: a homerun

Trading a 1st and three 2nds, after just wasting a 1st and 2nd on Boucher/Roger has led to a really weak prospect pool, regardless of whether you like the DeBrincat/Chychrun trades.

We're in danger of being Canuckified. Have some elite young pieces but may not be able to put the team over the top and develop into a legit contender because of how many young assets have been spent already trying to just get this team into the playoffs.