Free Agency and Trade Thread - Playoff Edition II

[SeaOfBlue]

Nylander had a bad year for sure but is it possible he repairs his trade value decrease with his play for Sweden? Or is it too short a tournament to make up for this years lack of success?

Part of it is that his poor year probably did not affect his trade value too much in the first place, if at all. He just did not do anything to significantly raise it.

A strong tournament would raise his value, but we are already talking about needing a good young top 4 RD or a guy like Pesce + another high end piece before we even consider trading him.

 

[WTFMAN99]

Part of it is that his poor year probably did not affect his trade value too much in the first place, if at all. He just did not do anything to significantly raise it.

A strong tournament would raise his value, but we are already talking about needing a good young top 4 RD or a guy like Pesce + another high end piece before we even consider trading him.

I'm honestly fine with getting Pesce straight up. Saves us money and fills a massive need long term.

 

[Buds17]

Nylander had a bad year for sure but is it possible he repairs his trade value decrease with his play for Sweden? Or is it too short a tournament to make up for this years lack of success?

I don't think the tournament will affect or change his standing much, positively or negatively. The more pertinent matter is that I don't likely see Dubas moving him.

 

[Rielly4]

I went on the sabres board and saw a lot of people talking about moving Ristolainen...He is EXACTLY what we need and i dont think they fully realize what they have there.

I made an offer of AJ + Kap + Brown + Zaitsev and most of them were on board with that. Its a big package but if you remove one of Kap or Aj i honestly dont think the value is there for them to move a young top pair d man with size and a good contract.

If we went for A.Larsson we could probably get away with keeping AJ and just moving Kap+Brown.

I personally would rather get Risto and move AJ as i think AJ is inevitably gone due to cap reasons at some point.

 

[43Kadri43]

I went on the sabres board and saw a lot of people talking about moving Ristolainen...He is EXACTLY what we need and i dont think they fully realize what they have there.

I made an offer of AJ + Kap + Brown + Zaitsev and most of them were on board with that. Its a big package but if you remove one of Kap or Aj i honestly dont think the value is there for them to move a young top pair d man with size and a good contract.

If we went for A.Larsson we could probably get away with keeping AJ and just moving Kap+Brown.

I personally would rather get Risto and move AJ as i think AJ is inevitably gone due to cap reasons at some point.

Ristolainen is terrible. No thank you.

 

[Rielly4]

Ristolainen is terrible. No thank you.

Very much disagree. He is a stud on a bad team and is just about to enter his prime.

 

[HoweHullOrr]

Part of it is that his poor year probably did not affect his trade value too much in the first place, if at all. He just did not do anything to significantly raise it.

A strong tournament would raise his value, but we are already talking about needing a good young top 4 RD or a guy like Pesce + another high end piece before we even consider trading him.

I can't see how we'd get a high end piece on top of Pesce. IMHO, that's a pipe dream.

This assumes that Carolina is even interested in moving Pesce, which is also doubtful.

We can & will dream of course.

 

[43Kadri43]

Very much disagree. He is a stud on a bad team and is just about to enter his prime.

He's been absolutely dreadful in the minutes he's been given. I imagine he'd be better in a more suitable role, but we need someone to play with Rielly, and he's not the answer; great on the PP, terrible at even strength. Doesn't drive possession, doesn't hold the line, doesn't produce at even-strength, atrocious in the defensive zone; I'm really not seeing the appeal for the Leafs.

 

[Nithoniniel]

Very much disagree. He is a stud on a bad team and is just about to enter his prime.

Studs don't bleed goals, scoring chances, and shots against year after year even on bad teams. He's a PP specialist. We don't need a PP specialist.

 

[HoweHullOrr]

But Dubas o all people isnt oing to move a 22 year old for a package where th main piece is a 30 year old.

You could probably get Spurgeon using lesser assets anyways

Edit typo

Minnesota doesn't need centers, but you could probably do Spurgeon for Kadri.

Minnesota may even need to add, although Kadri does have the down season against him so maybe not. We'd definitely not need to add.

Spurgeon is a 1st pairing RD. So, he's another of those real high-demand, elusive, hard to get RDs that would generate lots of interest if he was actually available.

There's probably a good reason why we've been making these RD trade proposals for three years with absolutely nothing to show for them.

I agree that with a one-year contract that fewer teams would be interested. But, a team that thought they had a decent shot at the Cup but needed that extra piece like San Jose did with Karlsson would still be a logical target. Friedman stated that several teams have already expressed an interest.

 

[HoweHullOrr]

I’m sure in your heart of hearts you guys know this, but the Sharks are not taking Marleau back under any reasonable circumstance. It’s not happening, stop using us to make your cap work. We have less than no need for Marleau and almost as many cap questions as you guys. We’re not taking him for a 7th round pick and we’re not taking him for Braun. End of story.

I would agree with this. I suspect many others here won't though and the dream will continue.

 

[Rielly4]

He's been absolutely dreadful in the minutes he's been given. I imagine he'd be better in a more suitable role, but we need someone to play with Rielly, and he's not the answer; great on the PP, terrible at even strength. Doesn't drive possession, doesn't hold the line, doesn't produce at even-strength, atrocious in the defensive zone; I'm really not seeing the appeal for the Leafs.

So what you are saying is he is bad in every way except on the PP...Thats just false.

Im aware that his corsi numbers are bad but hes on a shit team and hes expected to do way too much for them..He cant hold off top QoC and play those types of minutes and have positive possesion numbers. When you play that much in your end against top NHL talent it gets tiring and it gets hard to make good breakout passes. The only guys who play those kind of minutes against top QOC and drive possession positively are on good teams...Its simple really.
He has all the tools...Hes big, he can skate and he can make plays...Hes smart with the puck and hes got a good stick defensively. He is physical and mean and he shoots right. What more do you want?

 

[43Kadri43]

So what you are saying is he is bad in every way except on the PP...Thats just false.

Im aware that his corsi numbers are bad but hes on a **** team and hes expected to do way too much for them..He cant hold off top QoC and play those types of minutes and have positive possesion numbers. When you play that much in your end against top NHL talent it gets tiring and it gets hard to make good breakout passes. The only guys who play those kind of minutes against top QOC and drive possession positively are on good teams...Its simple really.
He has all the tools...Hes big, he can skate and he can make plays...Hes smart with the puck and hes got a good stick defensively. He is physical and mean and he shoots right. What more do you want?

This is littered with excuses for his poor results, but lacks any real justification for them. Yes, he faces tough competition. No, that doesn't excuse his porous results. His GAR is abysmal, his micrometrics are abysmal, and his adjusted impact is abysmal; two of those account for competition and teammates.

He has all the tools to be a great hockey player, but he isn't one. I'd rather have a player who performs well, than a player who appears as though they should; tools are only useful if you can properly utilize them.

 

[rumman]

I'm honestly fine with getting Pesce straight up. Saves us money and fills a massive need long term.

during his holdout I suggested Nylander straight up for Pesce and was soundly ripped for what the Pro Nylander's said was comparable to Hall for Larsson, well we know Nylander ain't Hall and Pesce isn't Larsson, I still think it would have been a good trade for now and years to come.

 

[rumman]

I don't think the tournament will affect or change his standing much, positively or negatively. The more pertinent matter is that I don't likely see Dubas moving him.

well he did give Willy a "verbal" no trade clause if you take him at his word.

 

[Rielly4]

This is littered with excuses for his poor results, but lacks any real justification for them. Yes, he faces tough competition. No, that doesn't excuse his porous results. His GAR is abysmal, his micrometrics are abysmal, and his adjusted impact is abysmal; two of those account for competition and teammates.

He has all the tools to be a great hockey player, but he isn't one. I'd rather have a player who performs well, than a player who appears as though they should; tools are only useful if you can properly utilize them.

Its possible my eye test could be wrong on him as much as i consider myself a good eye for talent haha.... But i bet you will find it hard to name me one player who is on a shit team and plays 24+ minutes a night getting almost every shift against the other teams top line and has positive possession numbers.

 

[Magic Man]

So what you are saying is he is bad in every way except on the PP...Thats just false.

Im aware that his corsi numbers are bad but hes on a **** team and hes expected to do way too much for them..He cant hold off top QoC and play those types of minutes and have positive possesion numbers. When you play that much in your end against top NHL talent it gets tiring and it gets hard to make good breakout passes. The only guys who play those kind of minutes against top QOC and drive possession positively are on good teams...Its simple really.
He has all the tools...Hes big, he can skate and he can make plays...Hes smart with the puck and hes got a good stick defensively. He is physical and mean and he shoots right. What more do you want?

I'm on board with you here. I've been pushing for a Nylander/Ristolainen based trade. I think Ristolainen is the perfect fit, even if he plays with Muzzin. I think I like your trade more, I'm a bit surprised they're on board. I would like to keep Kapanen, he likes to hit and has good upside. I would try to tempt them with Bracco, but would accept that trade either way.

 

[HoweHullOrr]

Zaitsev and Larrsson are a wash in my books. .

I'd wonder about the above statement. Might be wishful.

 

[Rielly4]

during his holdout I suggested Nylander straight up for Pesce and was soundly ripped for what the Pro Nylander's said was comparable to Hall for Larsson, well we know Nylander ain't Hall and Pesce isn't Larsson, I still think it would have been a good trade for now and years to come.

Its not like its all in the past...Nylander is 22 years old, he could still win 10 rocket richards for all we know.

 

[HoweHullOrr]

Maybe we can get the 4th overall from Colorado for Kasperi Kapanen too

Not sure if this was tongue-in-cheek, but if I were Colorado I'd probably just hang on to the 4th overall i.e., could have higher ceiling and would be the lower cost option.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

I'm honestly fine with getting Pesce straight up. Saves us money and fills a massive need long term.

That sells Nylander very low though. Nylander is on a whole other level compared to Pesce, and it would requite a lot on their part to bridge that gap.

If that is where Nylander's value is right now, then there is no deal to be done. The Leafs keep Nylander and look at other options, possibly with Kadri.

I just hope Babcock actually considers using Nylander as a center full time. That is where his value to the Leafs will be the greatest long term, especially with Bracco coming up to be able to play with Matthews. The only argument is whether that may be feasible for next year, but the option should definitely be open.

 

[Dreakmur]

during his holdout I suggested Nylander straight up for Pesce and was soundly ripped for what the Pro Nylander's said was comparable to Hall for Larsson, well we know Nylander ain't Hall and Pesce isn't Larsson, I still think it would have been a good trade for now and years to come.

With defensemen, you often have to gamble to get the good ones. The posters who wanted Pesce last summer saw a player that was better than he showed.

Pesce has shown his true value now, and it’s more than Nylander. Time to look for the next one...

I thought Larsson was one when he was traded to Edmonton. He’s really good, but it was hall who had the untapped value...

 

[SeaOfBlue]

I'd wonder about the above statement. Might be wishful.

It's not too far off. If you cut through the HF BS, they are not far from each other in terms of what they'd bring to teams. Larsson may have a bit more value and a bit more skill in certain areas (while Zaitsev can stake the same claim in other ares), they are not far from one-for-one.

 

[WTFMAN99]

That sells Nylander very low though. Nylander is on a whole other level compared to Pesce, and it would requite a lot on their part to bridge that gap.

If that is where Nylander's value is right now, then there is no deal to be done. The Leafs keep Nylander and look at other options, possibly with Kadri.

I just hope Babcock actually considers using Nylander as a center full time. That is where his value to the Leafs will be the greatest long term, especially with Bracco coming up to be able to play with Matthews. The only argument is whether that may be feasible for next year, but the option should definitely be open.

I think that narrative is false though, Pesce is on the Canes and performing very well. As a "shut down" defenseman, Pesce is putting up .5 Pt/game in the playoffs. His contract is an outstanding fit for us long term. I see tremendous value in having a pairing of Rielly-Pesce for the next number of years under 10M combined.

I think Kadri and Nylander could both handle 3C but so could someone else and likely for less money.

 

[HoweHullOrr]

It's not too far off. If you cut through the HF BS, they are not far from each other in terms of what they'd bring to teams. Larsson may have a bit more value and a bit more skill in certain areas (while Zaitsev can stake the same claim in other ares), they are not far from one-for-one.

I don't agree with your assessment of Larsson, but that's OK. The HF BS is much more applicable to the downgrading of any/all Oiler assets in general because its a vogue, groupthink mentality that catches on like a wild-fire in here.