Free Agency and Trade Thread - Playoff Edition II

[HoweHullOrr]

I think that narrative is false though, Pesce is on the Canes and performing very well. As a "shut down" defenseman, Pesce is putting up .5 Pt/game in the playoffs. His contract is an outstanding fit for us long term. I see tremendous value in having a pairing of Rielly-Pesce for the next number of years under 10M combined.

I think Kadri and Nylander could both handle 3C but so could someone else and likely for less money.

I remember the first time (about two years ago) Pesce's name came up in a trade proposal. Half the posters in here hadn't even heard of him. I'm suspecting that some are still sleeping on him to some degree.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

I think that narrative is false though, Pesce is on the Canes and performing very well. As a "shut down" defenseman, Pesce is putting up .5 Pt/game in the playoffs. His contract is an outstanding fit for us long term. I see tremendous value in having a pairing of Rielly-Pesce for the next number of years under 10M combined.

I think Kadri and Nylander could both handle 3C but so could someone else and likely for less money.

Okay so you would be buying high on Pesce and selling low on Nylander. Pesce is a 2nd pairing quality guy, even on Carolina. They have a deep defense and are hitting on all cylinders right now, but that is what he's proven to be so far.

We should not be doing that deal. Playing on averages, Nylander is a far more impactful player than Pesce, and we can't be making bad moves just to fill needs.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

I don't agree with your assessment of Larsson, but that's OK. The HF BS is much more applicable to the downgrading of any/all Oiler assets in general because its a vogue, groupthink mentality that catches on like a wild-fire in here.

It is the exact same thing with Zaitsev.

I do agree with the whole perception that everyone can fleece the Oilers that seems to be spreading on these boards, but that does not factor in the fact that Larsson and Zaitsev are of a similar age and my belief that would be able to fulfill a similar role with similar quality (at least on the Leafs). The only EDM factor that comes in is that they are a team that severely underperforms, and maybe that affects Larsson's ability to play to his full capabilities and therefore may (or may not) hinder his value a little bit (and perhaps presents the possibility that he does much better on a team like the Leafs). However, there are plenty of factors which prevent Zaitsev from doing the exact same thing here and would allow him to flourish in EDM.

As it stands, I would not value Larsson significantly more than I would Zaitsev at this point in time. He has not proven to do so at this point in his career, and at 26, I doubt he suddenly exceeds his current play.

 

[WTFMAN99]

Okay so you would be buying high on Pesce and selling low on Nylander. Pesce is a 2nd pairing quality guy, even on Carolina. They have a deep defense and are hitting on all cylinders right now, but that is what he's proven to be so far.

We should not be doing that deal. Playing on averages, Nylander is a far more impactful player than Pesce, and we can't be making bad moves just to fill needs.

Pesce was also doing just fine last year the top pairing with Slavin and still does play there it seems like if they want to lock down things. I think it is just a fair trade, but I also understand that not everyone is going to agree on it.

 

[HoweHullOrr]

It is the exact same thing with Zaitsev.

I do agree with the whole perception that everyone can fleece the Oilers that seems to be spreading on these boards, but that does not factor in the fact that Larsson and Zaitsev are of a similar age and my belief that would be able to fulfill a similar role with similar quality (at least on the Leafs). The only EDM factor that comes in is that they are a team that severely underperforms, and maybe that affects Larsson's ability to play to his full capabilities and therefore may (or may not) hinder his value a little bit (and perhaps presents the possibility that he does much better on a team like the Leafs). However, there are plenty of factors which prevent Zaitsev from doing the exact same thing here and would allow him to flourish in EDM.

As it stands, I would not value Larsson significantly more than I would Zaitsev at this point in time. He has not proven to do so at this point in his career, and at 26, I doubt he suddenly exceeds his current play.

Well, Larsson may not be twice as good as Zaitsev or something huge like that, but after watching the two play, I'd say Larsson is the better overall defender. JMHO of course, and its completely OK be me if you disagree.

 

[Gabriel426]

Well, Larsson may not be twice as good as Zaitsev or something huge like that, but after watching the two play, I'd say Larsson is the better overall defender. JMHO of course, and its completely OK be me if you disagree.

Larsson and Zai are very close in terms of quality. I think if Oilers and is swap them 1 for 1, it will be a good trade for both. Bc Larsson is all defence with very little offence. That’s something the Leafs need. Where as Zai is an offensive Dman but can’t do that bc he is behind Reilly, Jake and even Muzzin on the Leafs. Zai could potentially QB Oilers PP.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Pesce was also doing just fine last year the top pairing with Slavin and still does play there it seems like if they want to lock down things. I think it is just a fair trade, but I also understand that not everyone is going to agree on it.

Fair enough. Personally, I'd rather look at filling the need with Kadri if the alternative is to try and force something with Nylander. If the right deal is there for Nylander, then do it. Otherwise, look elsewhere.

There are a ton of options. Kadri would have a lot of suitors, and there are a few deals that could make sense for the Leafs. Maybe bases like Kadri + Johnsson/Kapanen for Savard + Jenner, Kadri for Sanheim, Kadri for Spurgeon, etc.

Any of those would work well for both teams IMO, and would be a lot better value for the Leafs. If Bracco is not ready to replace Nylander on Matthews' wing (and having Nylander play center), you can have a stop gap until that becomes a more viable option. Derek Brassard is someone the Leafs should seriously look at in that case. He'd probably only get a 1 year deal for ~50% of Kadri's cap, and is coming off a really bad year, but he has a lot of things that would be great for a 3C if he can turn things around.

 

[WTFMAN99]

Fair enough. Personally, I'd rather look at filling the need with Kadri if the alternative is to try and force something with Nylander. If the right deal is there for Nylander, then do it. Otherwise, look elsewhere.

There are a ton of options. Kadri would have a lot of suitors, and there are a few deals that could make sense for the Leafs. Maybe bases like Kadri + Johnsson/Kapanen for Savard + Jenner, Kadri for Sanheim, Kadri for Spurgeon, etc.

Any of those would work well for both teams IMO, and would be a lot better value for the Leafs. If Bracco is not ready to replace Nylander on Matthews' wing (and having Nylander play center), you can have a stop gap until that becomes a more viable option. Derek Brassard is someone the Leafs should seriously look at in that case. He'd probably only get a 1 year deal for ~50% of Kadri's cap, and is coming off a really bad year, but he has a lot of things that would be great for a 3C if he can turn things around.

The only thing is with a guy like Brassard, I would really like to limit the number of question marks on this roster if we're going for a Cup. I know there is no perfect team in the cap era and we've seen Tampa go down in round 1 but still.

I would like to see some of the roster turned over and play a more controlled system, defensively we kind of suck and rely on Andersen too much. Boston, NYI, Carolina etc can all fall back on their system and structure.

 

[Dreakmur]

Pesce was also doing just fine last year the top pairing with Slavin and still does play there it seems like if they want to lock down things. I think it is just a fair trade, but I also understand that not everyone is going to agree on it.

That's how you know it's a fair trade.

If every Leaf fan loves it, you know it's unrealistic.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

The only thing is with a guy like Brassard, I would really like to limit the number of question marks on this roster if we're going for a Cup. I know there is no perfect team in the cap era and we've seen Tampa go down in round 1 but still.

I would like to see some of the roster turned over and play a more controlled system, defensively we kind of suck and rely on Andersen too much. Boston, NYI, Carolina etc can all fall back on their system and structure.

I'd rather have a question mark 3C behind Matthews and Tavares, especially if he comes cheap and has as much upside as Brassard and have a strong top 4 than have Kadri and not have those things.

My opinion, but our team is better in those scenarios.

 

[WTFMAN99]

I'd rather have a question mark 3C behind Matthews and Tavares, especially if he comes cheap and has as much upside as Brassard and have a strong top 4 than have Kadri and not have those things.

My opinion, but our team is better in those scenarios.

A guy I would have loved on a 1 year deal but won't sign here because of Babcock is Val Flipulla, really underrated and did good work for NYI.

 

[Menzinger]

I think folks get a bit too fixated on trying to think of a young D man on the trade market.

I think older guys in that 27-32ish age range are going to be a lot more available (like Muzzin was) and probably available for a wider variety of trade assets than that young top 4 D

 

[Legion34]

I think folks get a bit too fixated on trying to think of a young D man on the trade market.

I think older guys in that 27-32ish age range are going to be a lot more available (like Muzzin was) and probably available for a wider variety of trade assets than that young top 4 D

This to an extent. I mean if we really want to bring up dermott and the Swedes. You need vets to bring them along.

 

[HoweHullOrr]

Larsson and Zai are very close in terms of quality. I think if Oilers and is swap them 1 for 1, it will be a good trade for both. Bc Larsson is all defence with very little offence. That’s something the Leafs need. Where as Zai is an offensive Dman but can’t do that bc he is behind Reilly, Jake and even Muzzin on the Leafs. Zai could potentially QB Oilers PP.

"I think if Oilers and is swap them 1 for 1" ???

Not sure I understood everything you were trying to say, but I think I disagree .... that's OK - everyone is entitled to their opinion of course.

JMHO, but I think Larsson would do well with Muzzin. We'd still need a RD though to play on the top pair.

 

[Gabriel426]

"I think if Oilers and is swap them 1 for 1" ???

Not sure I understood everything you were trying to say, but I think I disagree .... that's OK - everyone is entitled to their opinion of course.

JMHO, but I think Larsson would do well with Muzzin. We'd still need a RD though to play on the top pair.

Meant to say Oilers and us swapping Zai and Larsson straight up.

 

[hockeywiz542]

31 Thoughts: Intrigue around NHL Draft starting to take shape - Sportsnet.ca

4. Odd quirk in Patrick Marleau’s contract: his signing bonus is paid in two instalments, one in July, one in December. Remember, he controls his future, but that adds a wrinkle to any potential move.

6. With teams beginning their scouting meetings, a few interesting situations slipped into the public domain. Let’s examine a few. First, what are Minnesota’s plans for Jared Spurgeon?He’ll be 30 in November, with one more season on a $5.2M cap hit. Ideally, the Wild re-sign him, but Spurgeon might be their most tradable asset at a time they don’t have too many. There’d be a ton of interest. There already is, but Minnesota has to make a decision. It would be a surprise if Jason Zucker returned following last season’s aborted trade to Calgary. There’s always interest in scorers.

8. What does Cale Makar’s arrival mean for Tyson Barrie? Two right-handed shots, and Barrie is one year from unrestricted free agency. After a 59-point regular season, Barrie added eight more in the playoffs. The Avalanche have always made it clear that if you want him, it has to be a “hockey trade.”

11. What is Columbus going to do with its cap room? We all know who is likely to go. Matt Duchene always keeps his options open. The Predators will have to do some surgery to make it work with him, and Montreal — which made a quiet pitch for him around the deadline — is also expected to make a play. The Blue Jackets went for it this season, and were rewarded with the first playoff victory in franchise history. GM Jarmo Kekalainen isn’t afraid to be aggressive, and the team is about $30M below the projected ceiling. Will they feel the need the weaponize their cap space right away, or take a more patient approach?

 

[rumman]

Meant to say Oilers and us swapping Zai and Larsson straight up.

be a good move for both teams, Oilers exercise the demon of trading Hall, Leafs get a better player in Larsson at a slightly cheaper rate with less term.

 

[Dreakmur]

be a good move for both teams, Oilers exercise the demon of trading Hall, Leafs get a better player in Larsson at a slightly cheaper rate with less term.

How is that a good move for the Oilers? You don't "fix" the Hall trade by flipping the return for even less.

Edmonton's biggest roster need is a top-6 winger. That's something we can actually accommodate. If we want Larsson, and I think we should, he's probably available.

 

[rumman]

How is that a good move for the Oilers? You don't "fix" the Hall trade by flipping the return for even less.

Edmonton's biggest roster need is a top-6 winger. That's something we can actually accommodate. If we want Larsson, and I think we should, he's probably available.

Nylander/Zaitev/Brown for Larsson/Nurse/Puljujarvi

 

[Dreakmur]

Nylander/Zaitev/Brown for Larsson/Nurse/Puljujarvi

They don't have the cap space to take that.... and even if they did, that' pretty lopsided.

 

[Duke16]

One of Johnsson/Kapanen, one of Hollowel/Duszak/Lindgren/Rasanen and some picks is a pretty standard package I'd be offering around the league. Could probably land a guy like Colin Miller and a small plus or we could add a bit more and go for Spurgeon/Manson types.

Any defenseman we go after would ideally be making around what Rielly makes or less. Guys like Miller, Spurgeon, Manson, Savard, Larsson, and Pesce (if still available) make sense as targets based on need and when factoring in the salary cap.

 

[Gabriel426]

How is that a good move for the Oilers? You don't "fix" the Hall trade by flipping the return for even less.

Edmonton's biggest roster need is a top-6 winger. That's something we can actually accommodate. If we want Larsson, and I think we should, he's probably available.

Maybe we should just have a block buster with the Oilers like Marner, Kadri, Zai, Brown and Kap/AJ for McDavid and Larsson.

 

[Leaffan1991]

Arizona
Hjalmarsson
Crouse
Dvorak

Toronto
Nylander
Johnsson

Edmonton
Larsson
Puljujaarvi

Toronto
Kadri
Brown

I doubt Marleau is going anywhere sadly.
So I think Z has to be traded for a pick.

Hyman Tavares Marner
Crouse Matthews Puljujarvi
Moore Dvorak Kapanen
Marleau Gauthier Bracco
Petan

Rielly Hjalmarsson
Muzzin Larsson
Rosen Dermott

 

[SeaOfBlue]

One of Johnsson/Kapanen, one of Hollowel/Duszak/Lindgren/Rasanen and some picks is a pretty standard package I'd be offering around the league. Could probably land a guy like Colin Miller and a small plus or we could add a bit more and go for Spurgeon/Manson types.

Any defenseman we go after would ideally be making around what Rielly makes or less. Guys like Miller, Spurgeon, Manson, Savard, Larsson, and Pesce (if still available) make sense as targets based on need and when factoring in the salary cap.

I'd still consider putting Kadri out there as well. If Nylander is off the table, he's our best "expendable" piece. Ideally, we keep him for at least one more year to let him have a strong season and by then we should be able to replace him (i.e. let Nylander take over for him), but if the offer is out there now, I'd strongly consider taking it. I think we can find strong 3C's to replace him, even if they are not as good. In the end, it may even work out better since there would be more ice time for Tavares and Matthews.

 

[rumman]

Its not like its all in the past...Nylander is 22 years old, he could still win 10 rocket richards for all we know.

I get the point your making, but he's not winning any Rocket Richard trophies.