Free Agency and Trade Thread - Playoff Edition II

[nuck]

Rangers also have 3 first round picks this year, including 2nd overall. Kaapo Kakko looks like he'd be a real solid addition.

How about the three 1sts for Marner? He can try to squeeze his $11M out of the Rags and the club gets a player in Kakko who can likely contribute right away rather than four random 1sts over the next several drafts. They need to have another contingency beyond paying whatever he wants.

 

[HoweHullOrr]

Marleau's cap hit is 1 season. 1. Saving cap space for expiring ELC's is irrelevant, because they all have the room for next season. If anything, this helps them save that cap space for next summer when they may need to give raises.

2. And it goes without saying that we'd be giving up pick(s) and/or prospect(s) to create added incentive.

I'm just not sure I understand what the point is you're trying to say honestly.

Marleau would be low cost to the Sharks in the scenario he ends up there. Because after he is bought out by a third team, they sign him to the 1.2M or whatever that he is supposed to make this season.

If you're point is "what if the Sharks aren't interested" then of course none of this happens. But we are discussing this based on the assumption that Doug Wilson would bring Marleau back for a final season (and given they wanted to keep Marleau 2 years ago, and they keep bringing Thornton back and they are generally a loyal organization, it's a reasonable assumption) and that Marleau would be okay with facilitating a return to SJS (and given he still owns a home there, and says it will always be his home, is another reasonable assumption).

1. Not sure where the "expiring ELC" came into play. I was saying that PM would compete with SJS prospects who could make the club and sign an ELC. Or they could sign a 4th liner UFA vet for a real low cost. What I am saying is that they have plenty of alternatives and don't have to go through all these extra steps & hassle.

2. "Goes without saying" yet very few actually mention this especially with any kind of detail. Teams in similar scenarios with leverage have gotten a roster player (16 goals, 39 points) and a 3rd. In other words, it will cost "something" and that something will be more than a mere scrap.

 

[WestCoastLeafs]

OK, yes. In 2019, they have two 1st rounders (2nd overall and 20th), and qty 3 2nd round picks (49th, 58th plus a 2nd rounder from Dallas). The NYR also have three 3rd rounders in the 2020 draft.

Fair enough, but I'm not sure quite what point you're going for. Are you suggesting that they should try to compete right now or that they already have "enough" picks? Because in either case I would have to disagree. I still think that they should draft-and-develop, and I don't think you can ever have too many picks/prospects - for example, the Leafs gave up three for Muzzin, and if they had enough depth in their pool, I'm sure they would cheerfully give up 3 more for a good RD.

 

[HoweHullOrr]

How about the three 1sts for Marner? He can try to squeeze his $11M out of the Rags and the club gets a player in Kakko who can likely contribute right away rather than four Random 1sts over the next several drafts.

Would depend on how they view Kakko. Kakko will be a ELC for awhile and will be paid significantly less than Marner in the next few years for sure.

 

[ACC1224]

Wouldn't be surprised at all if Marners camp would sabotage any potential deal.

 

[HoweHullOrr]

Fair enough, but I'm not sure quite what point you're going for. Are you suggesting that they should try to compete right now or that they already have "enough" picks? Because in either case I would have to disagree. I still think that they should draft-and-develop, and I don't think you can ever have too many picks/prospects - for example, the Leafs gave up three for Muzzin, and if they had enough depth in their pool, I'm sure they would cheerfully give up 3 more for a good RD.

I'm saying that the Rangers are better served at this stage to draft and develop. That appears to be the plan they have embarked upon. I think another year or so of drafting high will put them into a good position to become a good team not too long afterwards.

In general, we are the team with big motivation to come up with fancy deals to get rid of Marleau. Other teams, not so much, because they are generally competitive teams that already have cap issues, or they are drafting and developing. For the draft & develop teams, your going to have to throw incentives at them that they find meaningful, not some scrap.

 

[HoweHullOrr]

Fair enough, but I'm not sure quite what point you're going for. Are you suggesting that they should try to compete right now or that they already have "enough" picks? Because in either case I would have to disagree. I still think that they should draft-and-develop, and I don't think you can ever have too many picks/prospects - for example, the Leafs gave up three for Muzzin, and if they had enough depth in their pool, I'm sure they would cheerfully give up 3 more for a good RD.

I think we ended up talking about different subjects. My focus was on Marleau.

If its a RD, then yes we'd have to offer something pretty good to have a chance at landing that good RD we seek.

 

[WTFMAN99]

Wouldn't be surprised at all if Marners camp would sabotage any potential deal.

My man, you know something?

 

[ACC1224]

My man, you know something?

Nope, all quiet. Just my speculation.

 

[HoweHullOrr]

Wouldn't be surprised at all if Marners camp would sabotage any potential deal.

I've wondered if MNM haven't gotten together at some point in the past to talk (& collaborate) on contract strategy.

So, far Matthews & Nylander contracts have followed a pattern (lower term). That's 2 out of 3 that have followed this pattern. #3 upcoming .....???

 

[Cor]

1. Not sure where the "expiring ELC" came into play. I was saying that PM would compete with SJS prospects who could make the club and sign an ELC. Or they could sign a 4th liner UFA vet for a real low cost. What I am saying is that they have plenty of alternatives and don't have to go through all these extra steps & hassle.

2. "Goes without saying" yet very few actually mention this especially with any kind of detail. Teams in similar scenarios with leverage have gotten a roster player (16 goals, 39 points) and a 3rd. In other words, it will cost "something" and that something will be more than a mere scrap.

What extra step of hassle is SJS going through? They are just signing Marleau, as a UFA on July 1, to a cheap deal. That's it

There's been several discussions on what we'd be willing to give up in terms of moving Marleau's deal. I've suggested Kapanen previously. Some found that too step and would rather part with a prospect + pick or something of the sort. Just because it hasn't been discussed within this exchange, doesn't mean it hasn't been whatsoever.

 

[Cor]

Nope, all quiet. Just my speculation.

How would Marner's camp sabotage a deal?

And why would they sabotage a deal that would allow the Leafs to possibly pay Marner more?

 

[ACC1224]

How would Marner's camp sabotage a deal?

And why would they sabotage a deal that would allow the Leafs to possibly pay Marner more?

let the team that is interested in trading for him know that they aren't willing to sign long term, stuff like that

 

[WestCoastLeafs]

I think we ended up talking about different subjects. My focus was on Marleau.

If its a RD, then yes we'd have to offer something pretty good to have a chance at landing that good RD we seek.

No, I was still talking about Marleau. I just meant to provide an example of why the Rangers should still be trying to acquire more futures, even though they already have a lot. It was a hypothetical "what if NYR wants to make a Muzzin-type deal 3 years from now."

 

[HoweHullOrr]

1. What extra step of hassle is SJS going through? They are just signing Marleau, as a UFA on July 1, to a cheap deal. That's it

2. There's been several discussions on what we'd be willing to give up in terms of moving Marleau's deal. I've suggested Kapanen previously. Some found that too step and would rather part with a prospect + pick or something of the sort. Just because it hasn't been discussed within this exchange, doesn't mean it hasn't been whatsoever.

1. There is a 2nd team involved in the scenario you outlined, no? That team would buy out PM. So, SJS can only get involved if another team steps up and does some work and takes some steps. Overall, that doesn't sound uncomplicated or simple.

2. OK, if you say so. I can read however and do follow most of the threads in here. Let's just say that many posts do not offer such details. We are good at revisionist history in here. Not worth saying more about this and arguing about it though.

In general, I don't look at the incentives that we would need to offer as a minor detail. I see that more as the main point, or an important point that needs to be mentioned, otherwise it fits more in the realm of fantasy.

 

[HoweHullOrr]

No, I was still talking about Marleau. I just meant to provide an example of why the Rangers should still be trying to acquire more futures, even though they already have a lot. It was a hypothetical "what if NYR wants to make a Muzzin-type deal 3 years from now."

Oh, OK. Picks are always good no doubt. You can never have enough of them.

Time tends to be in short supply, and high demand though. Unless we incentivize the other team with something they find decent & meaningful, I don't think they bother spending time on schemes like this.

 

[BlueForever75]

Stop the Marner trade talk. Its plain stupid. The kid is here to stay long term. He has a better chance remaining a Leaf then Matthews and Nylander. That in itself should speak volumes.

 

[Kiwi]

let the team that is interested in trading for him know that they aren't willing to sign long term, stuff like that

If he's pissed off we won't pay him enough why would he sabotage a trade that sends him somewhere that will?

That just ends up with him staying exactly where he is with almost no leverage because he won't leave anyway

Why would you put yourself in that position?

 

[Rare Jewel]

Stop the Marner trade talk. Its plain stupid. The kid is here to stay long term. He has a better chance remaining a Leaf then Matthews and Nylander. That in itself should speak volumes.

Why, just because he's from here?

 

[Cor]

1. There is a 2nd team involved in the scenario you outlined, no? That team would buy out PM. So, SJS can only get involved if another team steps up and does some work and takes some steps. Overall, that doesn't sound uncomplicated or simple.

2. OK, if you say so. I can read however and do follow most of the threads in here. Let's just say that many posts do not offer such details. We are good at revisionist history in here. Not worth saying more about this and arguing about it though.

In general, I don't look at the incentives that we would need to offer as a minor detail. I see that more as the main point, or an important point that needs to be mentioned, otherwise it fits more in the realm of fantasy.

But the 2nd team is up for Toronto to work with.

SJS's only process before actually signing Marleau is a phone call from Patty's agent saying "if Patty agrees to be traded to be bought out, can he come back to SJS". TOR would give Patty permission to speak with SJS before hand, and perhaps prearrange a deal to be signed on July 1. That's hardly complicated. SJS has nothing to do with Toronto, and nothing to do with the team that would buy out Marleau, but purely dealing with one of the best players in their franchises history wanting to play one final season with them on a cheap deal signed in free agency.

Again, this is all just discussion, and Toronto needs firstly have the desire to get rid of Marleau, secondly find a team willing to buy him out and provide compensation for that, and likely, ensure that SJS is interested in a reunion.

 

[Bigmarycombo]

so I was thinking the other night. in between inebriation and more inebriation I had a thought. what could you offer the nucks to obtain Nikita Tryamkin from them. fast physical D that abandoned them and went back to the Khl after a really solid 1 and 1/4 seasons. I belive his contract is up with the khl and he wants to return to the nhl. . would be a decent move depending on what would be needed to facilitate the trade

I always liked this guy
I think that is a great idea

 

[Bigmarycombo]

Teams aren’t trading for Marleau cap hit unless he wants to retire

Marner isn’t getting offer sheets. Dubas will sign him

 

[rumman]

Stop the Marner trade talk. Its plain stupid. The kid is here to stay long term. He has a better chance remaining a Leaf then Matthews and Nylander. That in itself should speak volumes.

I wouldn't put it past Dubas to trade him.

 

[Rielly4]

At this point it seems pretty evident that 1 of AJ or Kap will be traded due to cap reasons. Kap makes more sense because of position, becuase he plays the right...But my feeling is AJ might be asking for more money, he also has arb rights and Kap does not. Kap also has a lot of advantages over AJ like size, speed, pk ability and age. My personal feeling is AJ will be the one moved but it might be dependant on who our ideal trade partner covets more.

If AJ is moved and Kap stays, do we move one of Kap/Nylander to the left and run: Nylander-Matthews-Kap ??

 

[dubplatepressure]

I wouldn't put it past Dubas to trade him.

I mean, Gretzky and Lindros were both traded so anyone can be.