Free Agency and Trade Thread - Playoff Edition II

[Fogelhund]

I was bored a few nights ago, and wondered... what if...

I traded..

Brown for 2nd round to Edmonton
Marleau to SJ for conditional 7th,
Zaitsev for a 2nd
Kadri + 2nd for Flyers Myers + 1st (11th OA)

Drafted Cole Caufield with the 11th OA
Marner @ $9.1
Johnsson & Kap @ $3mil each
and Erik Karlsson for $9 mil <-- Ya, that was the purpose of this exercise... just for S & giggles.

23 people on the roster $80.5 mil cap hit....

Would it all happen, no chance, but it was an interesting exercise in what if.

 

[dubplatepressure]

I was bored a few nights ago, and wondered... what if...

I traded..

Brown for 2nd round to Edmonton
Marleau to SJ for conditional 7th,
Zaitsev for a 2nd
Kadri + 2nd for Flyers Myers + 1st (11th OA)

Drafted Cole Caufield with the 11th OA
Marner @ $9.1
Johnsson & Kap @ $3mil each
and Erik Karlsson for $9 mil <-- Ya, that was the purpose of this exercise... just for S & giggles.

23 people on the roster $80.5 mil cap hit....

Would it all happen, no chance, but it was an interesting exercise in what if.

Good story. That Flyers trade is absolutely effing brutal for Philly.

 

[WTFMAN99]

I was bored a few nights ago, and wondered... what if...

I traded..

Brown for 2nd round to Edmonton
Marleau to SJ for conditional 7th,
Zaitsev for a 2nd
Kadri + 2nd for Flyers Myers + 1st (11th OA)

Drafted Cole Caufield with the 11th OA
Marner @ $9.1
Johnsson & Kap @ $3mil each
and Erik Karlsson for $9 mil <-- Ya, that was the purpose of this exercise... just for S & giggles.

23 people on the roster $80.5 mil cap hit....

Would it all happen, no chance, but it was an interesting exercise in what if.

I think the 2 things you'd need to factor in would be Marleau is likely not going....but if he is, I will die backflips across a highway.

Zaitsev likely sees some kind of $$ coming back our way, like a Zaitsev+late pick for a Mark Pysyk.

 

[SprDaVE]

The only way Marleau is traded to me is if San Jose has any sort of interest AND the Leafs retain 50% of that contract. Even then it seems very unlikely that San Jose has interest in that... but maybe.

As for Zaitsev, I could see him traded to Vancouver for Spooner and a mid round pick, with the Leafs then buying out Spooner. They'd save about 3M of cap space there.

If both of these scenarios happen, the Leafs would save 6M in cap space, which be more than enough to sign everyone and allow them to add a pretty good defenceman.

 

[HoweHullOrr]

The Sharks have a lot of things to figure out so I think that would have to wait until after July 1st, but I certainly hope so.

These are their upcoming UFA's and they have $24M in cap space to work with:
Joe Thornton
Joe Pavelski
Erik Karlsson
Gustav Nyquist
Jonas Donskoi

Timo Meier (RFA)

There are 4 RFAs. Kevin Lablanc, Gambrell & Ryan were not listed above. Lablanc is a pretty good player.

In summary, the Sharks have their own cap problems. Marleau AAV would need to be at about the league minimum I'd think for them to express any interest at all.

 

[Cor]

Only way I see Marleau back to SJS being possible is if both Karlsson and Nyquist don't re-sign.

Which is very possible.

 

[Cor]

There are 4 RFAs. Kevin Lablanc, Gambrell & Ryan were not listed above. Lablanc is a pretty good player.

In summary, the Sharks have their own cap problems. Marleau AAV would need to be at about the league minimum I'd think for them to express any interest at all.

That's technically possible.

TOR trades Patrick Marleau to ______
______ buys out Marleau to keep the cap hit.
Marleau signs Free Agent deal with San Jose

According to Capfriendly the actual cost to buy out Marleau is payment of $416K this year and $416K next year for salary, and then there is $3M in signing bonus, which apparently is half on July 1, and half in December. To me, I think there would be a team that would be fine with paying 3.4M this year, and .4K next year, to have a 6.25M hit against the cap this year to reach the floor.

So it's possible, and if Marleau is open to going back to SJS, it could very well work

 

[SHANNYPLAN]

Bracco for Crouse?

Arizona gets a near NHL ready top 6 winger with a ton of skill. Leafs get a big gritty winger to play in the top 9.

 

[aingefan]

Well the Sharks would have to want him, which I doubt they do.

I honestly think media thinks there some sort of out because everyone is shocked the Leafs made such an obviously short sighted signing. Literally everyone knew this was going to happen, and the Leafs still gave Marleau that third year. Just a brutal decision that I think some people are still having a hard time believing.

At the time. I think most believed the big three would sign for less, and JT was no slam dunk.

 

[LeafChief]

Bracco for Crouse?

Arizona gets a near NHL ready top 6 winger with a ton of skill. Leafs get a big gritty winger to play in the top 9.

No.

 

[Cor]

The only way Marleau is traded to me is if San Jose has any sort of interest AND the Leafs retain 50% of that contract. Even then it seems very unlikely that San Jose has interest in that... but maybe.

As for Zaitsev, I could see him traded to Vancouver for Spooner and a mid round pick, with the Leafs then buying out Spooner. They'd save about 3M of cap space there.

If both of these scenarios happen, the Leafs would save 6M in cap space, which be more than enough to sign everyone and allow them to add a pretty good defenceman.

I don't think we take a contract back from VAN.

They have like 30M in cap space with just Boeser needing a significant contract, which will likely only be in the 6-7M range. Edler will be around 3M, Hutton & Granlund around 2, if not less. If they can get Zaitsev, a player Botchford said the Canucks had interest in, for cheap, they'd likely rather do that, then have to make more to get TOR to take on a 1 year salary they can easily afford.

Patrick Marleau is hard to even speculate about. I think he's either here, or we trade him to get bought out, and then he signs a 1 year deal with SJS.

 

[pspot]

I really don't think they will trade Marleau
as much as it makes sense from an on ice and cap relief situation he's just to important to Matthews and Marner
Brown will go, KJ and/or Kap won't be back, Zaitsev will go , Kadri will go, all before i think they move Marleau

 

[TML Dynasty]

I really don't think they will trade Marleau
as much as it makes sense from an on ice and cap relief situation he's just to important to Matthews and Marner
Brown will go, KJ and/or Kap won't be back, Zaitsev will go , Kadri will go, all before i think they move Marleau

I’d rather have him stay here as a player development coach at big bucks. Solves coddling Matthews/Marner and not having to move his family again.

But for the love of god trade that cap hit!

 

[SHANNYPLAN]

I really don't think they will trade Marleau
as much as it makes sense from an on ice and cap relief situation he's just to important to Matthews and Marner
Brown will go, KJ and/or Kap won't be back, Zaitsev will go , Kadri will go, all before i think they move Marleau

I think Johnsson goes before Kap. Kap makes more sense to keep since he’s good friends with Willy and the young guys, kills penalties, and is fast af

 

[Wiseguys]

I don't know if this scenario has been discussed or not, if it has I apologize. Since Phil Kessel is on the trading block. I'm thinking since the Leafs are on the hook for 1.2 million of his contract. Would it be possible that the Leafs trade for Kessel in a 3 way trade where the Leafs would be able to then trade him at his full cap hit to another team. In doing so it would free up 1.2 million in cap space for the Leafs. Obviously all variables in the trades would have to work for all 3 teams. I dont see why not unless im missing something. Thoughts.

 

[WestCoastLeafs]

The only way Marleau is traded to me is if San Jose has any sort of interest AND the Leafs retain 50% of that contract. Even then it seems very unlikely that San Jose has interest in that... but maybe.

As for Zaitsev, I could see him traded to Vancouver for Spooner and a mid round pick, with the Leafs then buying out Spooner. They'd save about 3M of cap space there.

If both of these scenarios happen, the Leafs would save 6M in cap space, which be more than enough to sign everyone and allow them to add a pretty good defenceman.

If Marleau were willing to go back to San Jose and San Jose were willing to take him at $3M, I just don't see why the Leafs wouldn't pay the premium to go through a middle man like Arizona so that they could get the full $6M cap space back. People tend to greatly exaggerate what it costs to eat cap space, but it would be $3M cap dollars and likely <$1M real dollars to Arizona, which probably actually provides them some benefit. I think a 2nd should easily cover this.

The extra 3 million (6 back instead of 3) would allow the Leafs to sign Johnsson and Kappy to longer term Gardiner-esque deals, and maybe even have some money to spare.

 

[SprDaVE]

I don't think we take a contract back from VAN.

They have like 30M in cap space with just Boeser needing a significant contract, which will likely only be in the 6-7M range. Edler will be around 3M, Hutton & Granlund around 2, if not less. If they can get Zaitsev, a player Botchford said the Canucks had interest in, for cheap, they'd likely rather do that, then have to make more to get TOR to take on a 1 year salary they can easily afford.

Patrick Marleau is hard to even speculate about. I think he's either here, or we trade him to get bought out, and then he signs a 1 year deal with SJS.

I disagree but we'll see.

 

[WestCoastLeafs]

That's technically possible.

TOR trades Patrick Marleau to ______
______ buys out Marleau to keep the cap hit.
Marleau signs Free Agent deal with San Jose

According to Capfriendly the actual cost to buy out Marleau is payment of $416K this year and $416K next year for salary, and then there is $3M in signing bonus, which apparently is half on July 1, and half in December. To me, I think there would be a team that would be fine with paying 3.4M this year, and .4K next year, to have a 6.25M hit against the cap this year to reach the floor.

So it's possible, and if Marleau is open to going back to SJS, it could very well work

The Rangers should do something like this. They have the financial resources, they have the cap space, and they need to rebuild (and pick up assets to do so). But I think the more likely scenario is that they try to take shortcuts and chase free agents this summer, which only makes them good enough to be mediocre.

Maybe there's some other teams that would consider it, but the bonus money needing to be paid makes it less likely that the usual suspects (Arizona and Ottawa) would be interested.

 

[HoweHullOrr]

That's technically possible.

TOR trades Patrick Marleau to ______
______ buys out Marleau to keep the cap hit.
Marleau signs Free Agent deal with San Jose

According to Capfriendly the actual cost to buy out Marleau is payment of $416K this year and $416K next year for salary, and then there is $3M in signing bonus, which apparently is half on July 1, and half in December. To me, I think there would be a team that would be fine with paying 3.4M this year, and .4K next year, to have a 6.25M hit against the cap this year to reach the floor.

So it's possible, and if Marleau is open to going back to SJS, it could very well work

Seeing as how the topic was San Jose Sharks (and teams like them in a similar situation, which is most NHL teams), the concern would be AAV, not how much salary is being paid by the team. And given this context, I was saying that unless Marleau's AAV is around league minimum, there would be very little/no interest.

If you are talking about the small number of teams trying to reach cap floor or a little above, then actual salary $s count more than AAV. That's a different scenario.

I have no inside or special knowledge of what Arizona is going to do next year, but given they were just a whisker away from making the playoffs, I'm suggesting that perhaps their focus is on making the playoffs next season and making playoff revenue versus looking at additional gimics/methods to reach cap floor (or slightly above).

Also, the Yotes only have $8.6 million of cap space for next season, and they already have 20 players under contract. So, once again, given current circumstances, I don't think they have the same level of need or desperation to make a move like this.

What you are describing is possible. I agree with that. But, its complicated and unlikely imho. I get that we are desperate, but I'm guessing there are very few teams desperate enough to go to the great lengths described in your scenario to get PM on their team and help us out.

 

[Cor]

Seeing as how the topic was San Jose Sharks (and teams like them in a similar situation, which is most NHL teams), the concern would be AAV, not how much salary is being paid by the team. And given this context, I was saying that unless Marleau's AAV is around league minimum, there would be very little/no interest.

If you are talking about the small number of teams trying to reach cap floor or a little above, then actual salary $s count more than AAV. That's a different scenario.

I have no inside or special knowledge of what Arizona is going to do next year, but given they were just a whisker away from making the playoffs, I'm suggesting that perhaps their focus is on making the playoffs next season and making playoff revenue versus looking at additional gimics/methods to reach cap floor (or slightly above).

Also, the Yotes only have $8.6 million of cap space for next season, and they already have 20 players under contract. So, once again, given current circumstances, I don't think they have the same level of need or desperation to make a move like this.

What you are describing is possible. I agree with that. But, its complicated and unlikely imho. I get that we are desperate, but I'm guessing there are very few teams desperate enough to go to great lengths to get PM on their team and help us out.

I'm not sure what the first part of your post is about. Yes, the discussion is about Marleau/SJS, and I showed the path of how that is likely to happen, if it does.

Arizona isn't the only team, in fact, I don't see them as even in the top 6 or 7 of likely options.

Ottawa has 37M in cap.
Colorado has 37M in cap.
New Jersey has 36M in cap.
Philly has 33M in cap.
Columbus has 32M in cap.
Canucks have 30M in cap.
Rangers have 20M in cap.

All these teams, based on their cap space and even accounting for players they need to sign, could facilitate the buy out of Marleau, allowing him to signed with SJS for a low AAV.

 

[HoweHullOrr]

The Rangers should do something like this. They have the financial resources, they have the cap space, and they need to rebuild (and pick up assets to do so). But I think the more likely scenario is that they try to take shortcuts and chase free agents this summer, which only makes them good enough to be mediocre.

Maybe there's some other teams that would consider it, but the bonus money needing to be paid makes it less likely that the usual suspects (Arizona and Ottawa) would be interested.

Rangers also have 3 first round picks this year, including 2nd overall. Kaapo Kakko looks like he'd be a real solid addition.

 

[HoweHullOrr]

I'm not sure what the first part of your post is about. Yes, the discussion is about Marleau/SJS, and I showed the path of how that is likely to happen, if it does.

Arizona isn't the only team, in fact, I don't see them as even in the top 6 or 7 of likely options.

Ottawa has 37M in cap.
Colorado has 37M in cap.
New Jersey has 36M in cap.
Philly has 33M in cap.
Columbus has 32M in cap.
Canucks have 30M in cap.
Rangers have 20M in cap.

All these teams, based on their cap space and even accounting for players they need to sign, could facilitate the buy out of Marleau, allowing him to signed with SJS for a low AAV.

Most of the teams you listed don't have much of a history of making moves like this. In fact, many of them tend to spend $s in free agency on players they think are decent and can help their team.

I'd also think that most teams have already learned hard lessons on developing draft picks and protecting the cap space to sign those really good ELCs that they have drafted & developed.

IF the price was right, then they would more likely consider it. But, to get to this point, we'd need to be offering something more e.g., prospects, picks, whatever.

The first part of my post was to emphasize that Marleau would compete against other low cost alternatives like prospects in their system who would be on low-cost ELC contracts. They have options and don't really need to jump through all these hoops, unless of course there's more in it for them.

 

[WestCoastLeafs]

Rangers also have 3 first round picks this year, including 2nd overall.

Looking at Cap Friendly, it looks like 2 1sts (the 2nd and 2oth) and 3 2nds. IMO this is all the more reason to take the slow-and-steady approach. With the possible exception of the guy they take at #2, those other guys are probably a few years away still. If they sign a UFA like Karlsson now, they waste his remaining good years then maybe get saddled with a contract when he's declining. I could see the argument for chasing Panarin though.

 

[Cor]

Most of the teams you listed don't have much of a history of making moves like this. In fact, many of them tend to spend $s in free agency on players they think are decent and can help their team.

I'd also think that most teams have already learned hard lessons on developing draft picks and protecting the cap space to sign those really good ELCs that they draft.

IF the price was right, then they would more likely consider it. But, to get to this point, we'd need to be offering something more e.g., prospects, picks, whatever.

The first part of my post was to emphasize that Marleau would compete against other low cost alternatives like prospects in their system who would be on low-cost ELC contracts. They have options and don't really need to jump through all these hoops, unless of course there's more in it for them.

Marleau's cap hit is 1 season. Saving cap space for expiring ELC's is irrelevant, because they all have the room for next season. If anything, this helps them save that cap space for next summer when they may need to give raises.

And it goes without saying that we'd be giving up pick(s) and/or prospect(s) to create added incentive.


I'm just not sure I understand what the point is you're trying to say honestly.

Marleau would be low cost to the Sharks in the scenario he ends up there. Because after he is bought out by a third team, they sign him to the 1.2M or whatever that he is supposed to make this season.

If you're point is "what if the Sharks aren't interested" then of course none of this happens. But we are discussing this based on the assumption that Doug Wilson would bring Marleau back for a final season (and given they wanted to keep Marleau 2 years ago, and they keep bringing Thornton back and they are generally a loyal organization, it's a reasonable assumption) and that Marleau would be okay with facilitating a return to SJS (and given he still owns a home there, and says it will always be his home, is another reasonable assumption).

 

[HoweHullOrr]

Looking at Cap Friendly, it looks like 2 1sts (the 2nd and 2oth) and 3 2nds. IMO this is all the more reason to take the slow-and-steady approach. With the possible exception of the guy they take at #2, those other guys are probably a few years away still. If they sign a UFA like Karlsson now, they waste his remaining good years then maybe get saddled with a contract when he's declining. I could see the argument for chasing Panarin though.

OK, yes. In 2019, they have two 1st rounders (2nd overall and 20th), and qty 3 2nd round picks (49th, 58th plus a 2nd rounder from Dallas). The NYR also have three 3rd rounders in the 2020 draft.