Free Agency and Trade Thread - Playoff Edition II

[Dreakmur]

We don't "have" to shed pieces for the sake of it. Obviously the cap needs to be addressed but there are other way of fixing that without removing a valuable asset for a mediocre return to fix that.

I'm not saying not to trade Kadri. I'm saying the return better be a whole lot better.

We actually do have to shed pieces.

Unless you think Marner, Kapanen, and Johnson are going to sign for a combined 10 million....

 

[4thline]

If the only thing we can get out of Kadri is 1 year of Gudas and a big downgrade to Kadri and a top 70 pick, I'd rather keep Kadri and move on to find other solutions.

I think this is the core of the disagreement. Is a guy at 3C that can match the EV production while being better defensively, on faceoffs and can pk for 2 million less really that big of a downgrade given the makeup of this team?

 

[SprDaVE]

We actually do have to shed pieces.

Unless you think Marner, Kapanen, and Johnson are going to sign for a combined 10 million....

That's not for the sake of it though. If you can't find the proper value for one of your players, you don't trade that player and you find an alternative. That's what I mean.

Kadri is on a very valuable contract and even in a down year, his value far exceeds his contract. It's important to understand that and trade him for a questionable return is well, questionable. But it's all opinions on what you think is fair for him I suppose.

 

[SprDaVE]

I think this is the core of the disagreement. Is a guy at 3C that can match the EV production while being better defensively, on faceoffs and can pk for 2 million less really that big of a downgrade given the makeup of this team?

I'm not opposed to Laughton but his value is definitely a lot lower than Kadris value for a lot of reasons.

The idea of receiving Laughton in this kind of trade is fine, it's the other assets that makes this questionable. Gudas and a 3rd is just not good enough.

 

[Dreakmur]

These general principals you are referencing are not applied well here - they're too extreme.

It is extreme, but we've got a big cap issue.

As soon as Marner signs for 10, that's about all we have room for. We're a cap team even before Johnsson and Kapanen sign.

That's with Rose, Liljegren, and Holl on the blueline. That's with Petan, Moore, Gauthier, Bracco, and Mikheyev on forward.

 

[4thline]

I'm not opposed to Laughton but his value is definitely a lot lower than Kadris value for a lot of reasons.

The idea of receiving Laughton in this kind of trade is fine, it's the other assets that makes this questionable. Gudas and a 3rd is just not good enough.

In terms of opportunity cost it's somewhere between 1st+ 3rd and 2nd+ "B" Prospect + 3rd, with the 2 million in 3C savings being the difference between AJ and no AJ

Revision to trade

Kadri+4th
for
Laughton+Gudas @50% + 2nd (41)

 

[Legion34]

Chris Tanev bought a house in Toronto yesterday.

Link/source?

 

[Dreakmur]

That's not for the sake of it though. If you can't find the proper value for one of your players, you don't trade that player and you find an alternative. That's what I mean.

Kadri is on a very valuable contract and even in a down year, his value far exceeds his contract. It's important to understand that and trade him for a questionable return is well, questionable. But it's all opinions on what you think is fair for him I suppose.

So what's the proper value for Kadri? Which teams need and want him?

Let's stick with Philly....
Travis Konecny - he is probably similar value. He's an RFA and likely doesn't end up saving us any cap space.
Travis Sanheim - I wanted him a Nylander deal last year, but he's probably proven to be too valuable now.
Philippe Myers - a good young D, but probably not quite ready.

 

[Cor]

I've been trying to do an armchair GM on the assumption that Marleau will be here next season.

It's tiiiiiiiiiiiiight

 

[17 Clark]

Link/source?

We don’t need Mr. glass On this team

 

[Cor]

Tanev is from the area, so it makes sense he's buying property in the area. Sometimes guys just buy homes in places. Marian Gaborik has a home in Vancouver, and he never played there.

Really, it means nothing

 

[Dreakmur]

I've been trying to do an armchair GM on the assumption that Marleau will be here next season.

It's tiiiiiiiiiiiiight

Hyman - Tavares - Marner
Mikheyev - Matthews - Nylander
Moore - Kadri - Bracco
Marleau - Gauthier - Brown
Petan

Rielly - Dermott
Muzzin - Zaitsev
Rosen - Liljegren
Holl

Anderson
Sparks

If Marner signs for 10,000,000, the above roster has a total cap of 82, 290, 532. That leaves 700,000 in cap space and neither Kapanen nor Johnsson are signed.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Hyman - Tavares - Marner
Mikheyev - Matthews - Nylander
Moore - Kadri - Bracco
Marleau - Gauthier - Brown
Petan

Rielly - Dermott
Muzzin - Zaitsev
Rosen - Liljegren
Holl

Anderson
Sparks

If Marner signs for 10,000,000, the above roster has a total cap of 82, 290, 532. That leaves 700,000 in cap space and neither Kapanen nor Johnsson are signed.

If you trade Brown, you can afford Johnsson. Johnsson would only make at most 500k more than Brown, or else he's getting dealt. However you are going to have to pick between Kadri, Kapanen, Marner and Nylander it looks like.

There's a few ways to finesse the cap but still have Marleau on the team. Marleau could still be used as a top 9 LW as well (just not with 16.5 minutes per night), so he does still fill a hole for us. There's a bunch of ways to approach it, but Marner needs to get done within the next 3 weeks. That's the one thing that is certain. Otherwise, Marner may be the one that needs to be moved.

 

[Cor]

Hyman - Tavares - Marner
Mikheyev - Matthews - Nylander
Moore - Kadri - Bracco
Marleau - Gauthier - Brown
Petan

Rielly - Dermott
Muzzin - Zaitsev
Rosen - Liljegren
Holl

Anderson
Sparks

If Marner signs for 10,000,000, the above roster has a total cap of 82, 290, 532. That leaves 700,000 in cap space and neither Kapanen nor Johnsson are signed.

Zaitsev and Brown out = 6.6M in additional space, which you can sign Johnsson and Kapanen for under that.

Kappy will be on a 1 or 2 year deal around 2-2.5M I think.

So essentially, can we trade Johnsson (+???) for a d-man, that makes around 4.1-4.6M

 

[Cor]

I've been trying to do an armchair GM on the assumption that Marleau will be here next season.

It's tiiiiiiiiiiiiight

This is the best I could do. Using the Contract Projections via Evolving Wild. About 500K in space

Brown + Sparks to EDM for a pick
Zaitsev to VAN for a pick
Johnsson to CAR for Faulk [Additions can be made on either side]

 

[dubplatepressure]

Hyman - Tavares - Marner
Mikheyev - Matthews - Nylander
Moore - Kadri - Bracco
Marleau - Gauthier - Brown
Petan

Rielly - Dermott
Muzzin - Zaitsev
Rosen - Liljegren
Holl

Anderson
Sparks

If Marner signs for 10,000,000, the above roster has a total cap of 82, 290, 532. That leaves 700,000 in cap space and neither Kapanen nor Johnsson are signed.

Your assuming Marleau, Zaitsev, and Kadri are on the team. Moving 2 of them solve the issue and don't blow the team up in the process.

 

[HoweHullOrr]

That's not for the sake of it though. If you can't find the proper value for one of your players, you don't trade that player and you find an alternative. That's what I mean.

Kadri is on a very valuable contract and even in a down year, his value far exceeds his contract. It's important to understand that and trade him for a questionable return is well, questionable. But it's all opinions on what you think is fair for him I suppose.

One alternative is to sign Marner, but not sure if that leaves enough to sign one of our RFAs (either Kapanen or Johnsson). That would leave nothing in the bank to sign a defender though, and we'd have to go with ELC defenders to replace the Hainsey & Gardiner departures.

Alternatively, we could try to add & bolster the blueline, but that would require subtractions elsewhere, like one of our roster forwards along with cutting one or two of the RFAs (depends on the salary of the incoming defender).

Any way you slice it, we are subtracting to squeeze to the cap limit.

I think the GM of any potential trading partner team will recognize our situation and be squeezing hard for sure.

 

[Dreakmur]

Your assuming Marleau, Zaitsev, and Kadri are on the team. Moving 2 of them solve the issue and don't blow the team up in the process.

I'm not really assuming anything.

I was showing why we have to move players out. Doesn't really matter who, but we either have to move Johnsson and Kapanen for picks, or we have to clear out enough cap space to sign them.

Optimistically, I think it takes about 5,000,000 to sign both guys. That's how much room we have to make.

Once again, that doesn't even account for players coming back, nor does it account for our need to improve the blueline.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Zaitsev and Brown out = 6.6M in additional space, which you can sign Johnsson and Kapanen for under that.

Kappy will be on a 1 or 2 year deal around 2-2.5M I think.

So essentially, can we trade Johnsson (+???) for a d-man, that makes around 4.1-4.6M

The Leafs could try to do something like Kadri + Johnsson + SDA for Jenner + Savard. Jenner + Savard = 8 mill. Kadri + Johnsson = ~7 mill. Then trade Zaitsev to Vancouver for a 2nd+.

Hyman-Tavares-Marner
Mikheyev-Matthews-Nylander
Marleau-Jenner-Kapanen
Aaltonen-Gauthier-Moore
Petan

Rielly-Savard
Muzzin-Dermott
Rosen-Liljegren
Borgman-Holl

Andersen-Sparks

Trades

C Boone Jenner
RD David Savard


C Nazem Kadri
LW Andreas Johnsson
C Semyon Der-Arguchintsev (if absolutely necessary, I would consider a prospect as good as Bracco as well)


2nd round pick 2020 (VAN)
6th round pick 2019 (OTT)


RD Nikita Zaitsev


2nd round pick 2019 (EDM)
5th round pick 2020 (EDM)


RW Connor Brown
4th round pick 2019 (STL)

Signings
Aaltonen - 1 x 775k
Marner - 8 x 10.16M
Kapanen - 3 x 3M

Leaves 10k in cap space left. We could potentially cut down on term on Marner or Kapanen if they are not making enough, but that's the most cap I think the Leafs give Kapanen and Marner.

 

[HoweHullOrr]

Your assuming Marleau, Zaitsev, and Kadri are on the team. Moving 2 of them solve the issue and don't blow the team up in the process.

Back to the often discussed topic and magic wand erasures again (e.g., Marleau in particular).

 

[HoweHullOrr]

These general principals you are referencing are not applied well here - they're too extreme.

Denial. Cue the magic erasure.

 

[Kazparov]

Link/source?

I know the agent who sold the house. Home is in the Beaches.

 

[Legion34]

I know the agent who sold the house. Home is in the Beaches.

Hmmmmm. That is a residential area. Not like a condo you could rent out or stay in n... it’s kinda interesting then? I could see them trading for him myself. With tons of cap space in Vancouver.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Hmmmmm. That is a residential area. Not like a condo you could rent out or stay in n... it’s kinda interesting then? I could see them trading for him myself. With tons of cap space in Vancouver.

Zaitsev would go the other way. I thought the whole thing was that Vancouver wanted to add to Tanev, not move him out.

 

[Legion34]

Zaitsev would go the other way. I thought the whole thing was that Vancouver wanted to add to Tanev, not move him out.

I don’t really see how that helps toronto. They need to add as well. I don’t think management sees Z as a black hole the way we do.

And 5 percent of the cap for a top 4 RHD isn’t nearly as bad as people think.

My personal guess Would be to get tanev with an overpay as well as getting them to buyout marleau. They have basically a full lineup and 30 million space.

We will see but it is interesting