Proposal: Fowler to the devils

[mytduxfan*]

According to the NHL Dan Girardi had 58 turnovers last year. That's not even one a game. He has one a shift. It's a stat that's not even close to being accurate.

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/anecdotal

Sure about that? It's 'worse than'. However, Bieksa is definitely worse than almost any RHD at this point.

Lol... good spot. I definitely suffer from lapses in concentration when posting in a fit of rage. BIEKSAAAAAA!!!!!

No, Shero doesn't want Fowler and we shouldn't either.

When will the madness end?

 

[Ducks in a row]

No, Shero doesn't want Fowler and we shouldn't either.

Schultz > Fowler according to those charts

Fowler is better then those charts will have you believe.

I really hate those charts that make people think they know how good or bad someone is as if that is all that matters and watching the players means nothing at all NHL teams know better that is why they have scouts because it takes more then advanced stats to see the picture of how good or bad someone is.

 

[WhatTheDuck]

- Fowler is not a #1 dman
- He plays a #1 role against top competition
- His partner is Kevin Bieksa, a #5 guy on the best of nights

Why should anyone expect a player to have strong defensive stats in that situation? Especially when we're talking about a young defenseman who has always been touted more for his puck moving and PP ability than defensive play. Does that sound like a situation that is setting him up to score well in any metrics at all?

Would common sense not say that if you put a #2 dman into a situation where he actually plays the role of a #2 guy (complimentary on a top pairing or carrying a second) that his advanced stats could be expected to improve dramatically?

 

[robbieboy3686]

- Fowler is not a #1 dman
- He plays a #1 role against top competition
- His partner is Kevin Bieksa, a #5 guy on the best of nights

Why should anyone expect a player to have strong defensive stats in that situation? Especially when we're talking about a young defenseman who has always been touted more for his puck moving and PP ability than defensive play. Does that sound like a situation that is setting him up to score well in any metrics at all?

Would common sense not say that if you put a #2 dman into a situation where he actually plays the role of a #2 guy (complimentary on a top pairing or carrying a second) that his advanced stats could be expected to improve dramatically?

Fowler will thrive in the east, BM get it done! Bring us back our cost controlled LW + pick/prospect , show the fans around the league again, that you sir are the best GM in the league!

 

[Stephen Gionta]

I think this deal is solid for both teams given the circumstances

To New Jersey:
Cam Fowler
Clayton Stoner

To Anaheim:
Jon Merrill/John Moore
Joseph Blandisi
2017 Conditional 1st round pick (if NJ misses playoffs in 2017, push the 1st round pick to 2018)


Lindholm - Vatanen
Depres - Manson
Merrill/Moore - Rookie D
Bieksa

Greene - Severson
Fowler - Lovejoy
Moore/Merrill - Santini
Stoner

 

[Machinehead]

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/anecdotal

You can't find one accurate turnover count on NHL.com


Analytics are deeply flawed, but we're still arguing in favor of turnovers. In 2016. I'm speechless.

 

[Ben Matlock]

I think this deal is solid for both teams given the circumstances

To New Jersey:
Cam Fowler
Clayton Stoner

To Anaheim:
Jon Merrill/John Moore
Joseph Blandisi
2017 Conditional 1st round pick (if NJ misses playoffs in 2017, push the 1st round pick to 2018)


Lindholm - Vatanen
Depres - Manson
Merrill/Moore - Rookie D
Bieksa

Greene - Severson
Fowler - Lovejoy
Moore/Merrill - Santini
Stoner

I was going to post pretty much the exact same proposal, so yeah, I agree with this. The forward going to Anaheim could also be Boucher/Quenneville, if that makes any difference.

Ducks shed roughly 5 mil in salary, gain a much cheaper bottom 4 LD and mid 6 fwd.

Devils get Fowler and keep Zacha.

 

[lindholmie]

I was going to post pretty much the exact same proposal, so yeah, I agree with this. The forward going to Anaheim could also be Boucher/Quenneville, if that makes any difference.

Ducks shed roughly 5 mil in salary, gain a much cheaper bottom 4 LD and mid 6 fwd.

Devils get Fowler and keep Zacha.

You realize the ducks don't need defensemen? Theodore? Montour? Larsson?
Ducks aren't going to take lesser value in fowler to dump stoner

 

[mytduxfan*]

You can't find one accurate turnover count on NHL.com


Analytics are deeply flawed, but we're still arguing in favor of turnovers. In 2016. I'm speechless.

Analytics are deeply flawed, but you're still arguing that you can judge a player based on a chart. In 2016. I'm speechless.

Did I do it right?

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

I was going to post pretty much the exact same proposal, so yeah, I agree with this. The forward going to Anaheim could also be Boucher/Quenneville, if that makes any difference.

Ducks shed roughly 5 mil in salary, gain a much cheaper bottom 4 LD and mid 6 fwd.

Devils get Fowler and keep Zacha.

I'd rather just give up Zacha then take on Stoner and give up that package.

 

[SpeakingOfTheDevils]

I'd rather just give up Zacha then take on Stoner and give up that package.

.. wut

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

I'd rather just give up Zacha then take on Stoner and give up that package.

of course you would

 

[KingDeathMetal]

Fowler is a third pairing D-man on a good team. Why are people talking about trading major assets for him? He's basically Michael Del Zotto from a few years ago, except not even as good.

 

[dracom]

Fowler is a third pairing D-man on a good team. Why are people talking about trading major assets for him? He's basically Michael Del Zotto from a few years ago, except not even as good.

Yes, because he plays 3rd pairing on the Ducks...

Love seeing how people who don't watch Fowler ever and just look at his fancy stats and assume they know him.

 

[TheNewEra]

Fowler is a third pairing D-man on a good team. Why are people talking about trading major assets for him? He's basically Michael Del Zotto from a few years ago, except not even as good.

Lol what

fowler is a top 3 defenceman on most teams in the nhl

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

.. wut

of course you would

Keeping Blandisi, Merrill/Moore a 1st round pick (possibly a high first round pick) is a more valuable package than Zacha, let alone Zacha + Stoner's contract.

Its essentially comparing
a promising offensive young player, a solid depth defenseman, and a ~15th overall pick

vs

6th overall pick AND a cap liability

How is that surprising that the package with Zacha is less valuable?

 

[KingDeathMetal]

He's a good playmaker who is a below average defender, and his offensive output has basically plateaued over the past three seasons despite playing with some of the best scorers in the game (fine, we can forget last season when the whole team went cold). He doesn't generate a ton of shots, and he's not a great possession player. Throw out fancy stats for a sec - any time I've seen him play, he wasn't spectacular from an eye-test perspective and looked to be a defensive liability. If we do turn to stats to tell a story about Fowler, he is basically pegged as a third to second pairing offensive d-man, who isn't even good for 40 pts in a good season.

What am I missing here? Again, I've seen this player before, and it was Michael Del Zotto on a good day except not even as talented. Why are people losing their minds over what he's going to bring in a trade? I wouldn't give you Brady Skjei for Fowler straight up.

 

[dracom]

He's a good playmaker who is a below average defender, and his offensive output has basically plateaued over the past three seasons despite playing with some of the best scorers in the game (fine, we can forget last season when the whole team went cold). He doesn't generate a ton of shots, and he's not a great possession player. Throw out fancy stats for a sec - any time I've seen him play, he wasn't spectacular from an eye-test perspective and looked to be a defensive liability. If we do turn to stats to tell a story about Fowler, he is basically pegged as a third to second pairing offensive d-man, who isn't even good for 40 pts in a good season.

What am I missing here? Again, I've seen this player before, and it was Michael Del Zotto on a good day except not even as talented. Why are people losing their minds over what he's going to bring in a trade? I wouldn't give you Brady Skjei for Fowler straight up.

So much wrong in one post, lol.

Fowler is still 24, thinking he has plateaued offensively is silly. Fowler is not being used a offensive weapon on the team anyways. He's being used as a shutdown pairing while playing with Bieksa (a #6th defensemen). He doesn't generate a lot of shuts because he's not playing in the offensive zone a lot. He plays primarly in the Dzone, where he's one of the best on clearing the puck out of the Dzone. And how often do you actually see him play? Because I'm going to go out on a limb and say not nearly often enough to make a judgement call on him.

Crazy to think that an offensive defensemen being used in a shutdown role while having to carry a guy like Bieksa isn't putting up tons of points; so that means he's terrible I guess.

 

[KelVarnsen]

He's a good playmaker who is a below average defender, and his offensive output has basically plateaued over the past three seasons despite playing with some of the best scorers in the game (fine, we can forget last season when the whole team went cold). He doesn't generate a ton of shots, and he's not a great possession player. Throw out fancy stats for a sec - any time I've seen him play, he wasn't spectacular from an eye-test perspective and looked to be a defensive liability. If we do turn to stats to tell a story about Fowler, he is basically pegged as a third to second pairing offensive d-man, who isn't even good for 40 pts in a good season.

What am I missing here? Again, I've seen this player before, and it was Michael Del Zotto on a good day except not even as talented. Why are people losing their minds over what he's going to bring in a trade? I wouldn't give you Brady Skjei for Fowler straight up.

Based on your comments, I am guessing that you've never seen him play.

 

[SpeakingOfTheDevils]

Keeping Blandisi, Merrill/Moore a 1st round pick (possibly a high first round pick) is a more valuable package than Zacha, let alone Zacha + Stoner's contract.

Its essentially comparing
a promising offensive young player, a solid depth defenseman, and a ~15th overall pick

vs

6th overall pick AND a cap liability

How is that surprising that the package with Zacha is less valuable?

So Zacha (our best forward prospect) is just labeled by his draft position, and Blandisi is a "promising offensive young player"

I don't know what PZ did to you or your family, but you've got a serious vendetta. Glad you're not running the show.

 

[Ducks in a row]

I think this deal is solid for both teams given the circumstances

To New Jersey:
Cam Fowler
Clayton Stoner

To Anaheim:
Jon Merrill/John Moore
Joseph Blandisi
2017 Conditional 1st round pick (if NJ misses playoffs in 2017, push the 1st round pick to 2018)


Lindholm - Vatanen
Depres - Manson
Merrill/Moore - Rookie D
Bieksa

Greene - Severson
Fowler - Lovejoy
Moore/Merrill - Santini
Stoner

Jon Merrill/John Moore we don't want we have enough defenseman as is even after trading away Fowler and Stoner. So we are getting a 1st that we might have to wait another year for to get a defenseman we don't need and want and a 22 year old forward with 41 games of NHL experience gee where do I sign up?

If we are trading Fowler we want a nice win now piece we are not going to trade him along with Stoner and get nothing that helps us win now.

He's a good playmaker who is a below average defender, and his offensive output has basically plateaued over the past three seasons despite playing with some of the best scorers in the game (fine, we can forget last season when the whole team went cold). He doesn't generate a ton of shots, and he's not a great possession player. Throw out fancy stats for a sec - any time I've seen him play, he wasn't spectacular from an eye-test perspective and looked to be a defensive liability. If we do turn to stats to tell a story about Fowler, he is basically pegged as a third to second pairing offensive d-man, who isn't even good for 40 pts in a good season.

What am I missing here? Again, I've seen this player before, and it was Michael Del Zotto on a good day except not even as talented. Why are people losing their minds over what he's going to bring in a trade? I wouldn't give you Brady Skjei for Fowler straight up.

You are evaluating him based of his hero chart that much is obvious. Schultz > Fowler based on the hero chart

What you are missing is seeing how he is based on watching him play. Saying you have seen him play and he is a defensive liability is a joke. The defensive liability isn't Fowler it is the damn defenseman we have had him paired with. Fowler isn't a #1D. Having Fowler play with Bieksa in a shutdown type of role is asking for trouble. Trouble not because Fowler is a defensive liability but because of how poor Bieksa was and that even being average defensively of which Fowler is no worse then won't result in great results. If Fowler is so bad and got most ice time of our defenseman while playing with Bieksa so much no way in hell would we of won the Jennings trophy. Fowler is better then those advanced stats says.

Take a look at Josi and Weber hero charts my god that defense pair sucked defensively their shot suppression barley registered and they are extra defenseman level when it comes to possession. That pair is only good for scoring and should be used on a teams 3rd defense pair with high offensive zone starts according to hero charts

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

So Zacha (our best forward prospect) is just labeled by his draft position, and Blandisi is a "promising offensive young player"

I don't know what PZ did to you or your family, but you've got a serious vendetta. Glad you're not running the show.

The purpose of doing that was to compare him to another 1st round pick, obviously. Do you not think Blandisi is a promising young player?

 

[nostalrius]

Hall

for

Fowler
2nd

 

[Spoiled Bratt]

I'd rather just give up Zacha then take on Stoner and give up that package.

Eh, mmmm....

 

[aufheben]

Lol what

fowler is a top 3 defenceman on most teams in the nhl

Yeah but if you replaced him with Del Zotto in a lot of proposals people wouldn't even take it seriously.