Value of: Forward Prospects from Toronto for D/G prospects from other teams.

[Russian Factor]

you know what, hell, I'll take a fresh Soshnikov if you don't mind. what'll I owe ya

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

What do yoy guys need. I would do bozak and kappy for fleury and a 3rd. But I don't think you guys need an nhl player signed woth term, is that correct?. Your defense is stacked lol and we don't have anything to offer there. I would do kappy+leipsic/Rychel for fleury plus 3rd/4th

Carolina has some solid f-prospects, so you better offering something that really hurts if they gonna drop Fleury. I doubt they are intressted in some middle-6 wingers. D-men are hot value...

This. Canes already have a boatload if middle six / bottom six forwards both at the NHL level and in prospect land (Rask, Lindholm, DiGuissepe, Skinner, Staal, Nestrasil, Nordstrom, Teravainen at the NHL level and all only Jordan Staal (27) is over 25....Aho, Gauthier, McGinn, Saarela, N. Roy, Zykov, and others in the system. Adding more middle / bottom six forwards like Kapanen, Leipsic, Bozak, etc.. really doesn't do much for the Canes.

What they lack is high end forwards and that is something the OP said is off the table. I'm not suggesting Fleury is enough to get a high end forward talent (right now), but trading him or even McKeown for something we don't need isn't the answer.

 

[indigobuffalo]

Problem is you also can't call any of them proven, a prospect is a prospect is a prospect, until they make the NHL or bust out. The leafs are not a team that should be trading prospects, we should be accumulating as many as possible, choosing the best, and trading the rest

Your intellect is truly dizzying.

Rule: Don't trade prospects.
Plan part 1: Acquire many prospects.
Plan part 2: Trade prospects.

So is it possible Leafs should look at moving prospects now or is there some event in the future that we will know is the moment that prospects can suddenly be traded...?

 

[MarryMarner]

K. Kapanen for H. Fleury

 

[tony d]

Got to think Kapanen may be packaged with another player or 2 for a defenseman/goalie prospect.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

K. Kapanen for H. Fleury

Easy pass from Carolina IMO. Contrary to popular HF belief, Canes are still really high on Fleury. Here's what Peters recently said about him.

“He’s really, really come on,†Peters said. “The things that he’s needed to work on in his game he’s done. His maturity as a person has improved. He’s another 6-foot-3, 200-plus D-man who can skate. He’s going to fit in to how we play. I’m very, very impressed by the progress he’s made from the time we drafted him to now.â€

Now yeah, I know coaches tend to always say positive things, but Peters and Francis have been pretty straightforward about some of these guys (even saying that Murphy figured out he needed to work harder in the offseason, etc...) so this is more than just coach speak.

 

[howkie]

K. Kapanen for H. Fleury

No

Offer up a quality center prospect and Canes listens, (Nylander), they dont need more wingers with middle 6 upside, how hard can it be....

 

[Roboturner913]

Let's be fair Kapanen is probably a couple notches above your typical "middle sixer" or second liner or whatever we're calling it. For a 19-year-old in the AHL he put up some pretty solid numbers. I think any team acquiring him is still gambling a bit on him to reach his upside but he's got a pretty high floor too.

Would I trade Fleury for him straight up, no, but an NHL-ready D prospect for NHL-ready F prospect is probably something Carolina has to consider in the short-term future, if for no other reason than they're approaching a logjam on D, especially LHD.

 

[Halla]

Umm so scrubs for scrubs?

yup. rychel, timashov, leipsic, johnson, bracco, gauthier, soshnikov, hyman etc are scrubs

we arent looking for an elite d prospect, just moving a good forward (timashov,johnson, bracco maybe) for a good defensive prospect

 

[Halla]

No

Offer up a quality center prospect and Canes listens, (Nylander), they dont need more wingers with middle 6 upside, how hard can it be....

Nylander for Fleury? surely thats a joke.
Canes made a massive mistake picking Fleury over Willie, Toronto isnt gonna just correct it for em

 

[sansabri]

yup. rychel, timashov, leipsic, johnson, bracco, gauthier, soshnikov, hyman etc are scrubs

we arent looking for an elite d prospect, just moving a good forward (timashov,johnson, bracco maybe) for a good defensive prospect

Every team in the league has prospects like that, though.

 

[howkie]

Nylander for Fleury? surely thats a joke.
Canes made a massive mistake picking Fleury over Willie, Toronto isnt gonna just correct it for em

Well Carolina has no reason to move him for less, good d-men cost alot and Leafs will soon realize they need to offer someone they dont want wanna loosa, to get one. And no, a package off lesser players may not be enough. Leafs should drafted hanefin instead of marner if you look at it today...

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Nylander for Fleury? surely thats a joke.
Canes made a massive mistake picking Fleury over Willie, Toronto isnt gonna just correct it for em

Right now, it certainly looks that way, but we won't know that for sure really for 5 or so years after both of them establish themselves in the NHL if it was a "massive mistake". If Nylander becomes a very good top 6 winger and Fleury becomes a very good top 4 defenseman, it's going to be hard to say it was a "massive" mistake. All depends how they pan out years from now (which I know is hard for HF to do).

Hindsight being 20/20, as a Canes fan, if I could foresee that Slavin would be as good as he is and foresee that we'd be able to draft Hanifin in 2015, then I would certainly have wanted Nylander or Ehlers over Fleury looking back, no denying that. That said, if Hanifin and Fleury end being excellent defenseman and end up anchoring the LHD side for Carolina for years to come, I won't be too upset.

Either way though, no way I'm giving up Fleury for some combination of Kapanen and/or lesser prospects like are being offered here. Makes no sense for Carolina as middle/bottom six forwards aren't a need for them.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Would I trade Fleury for him straight up, no, but an NHL-ready D prospect for NHL-ready F prospect is probably something Carolina has to consider in the short-term future, if for no other reason than they're approaching a logjam on D, especially LHD.

I really don't see the logjam short term. One of Murphy or Carrick will likely get taken in the expansion draft (and until he proves me wrong, I think Murphy isn't that great). Hainsey and Tennyson are UFAs after this season. Honestly, the timing is pretty good right now (barring injuries) to have Fleury and McKeown start in the AHL and next year when Hainsey, Tennyson, Murphy/Carrick are gone, it leaves Faulk, Hanifin, Slavin, Pesce, McKeown, Fleury. After a year or two (when Bean should also be getting close), when we know what we have in all of these guys at the NHL level, you can move 1 of them for forward help if need be.

I think trading a guy now would be minimizing his value tremendously. It would be like trading Slavin or Pesce before last season started. The return would have been significantly less than if the Canes were to offer them now.

 

[Mad Brills*]

just do kapanen for pokka.

 

[4thline]

Every team in the league has prospects like that, though.

No denying that, but on a lot of teams those guys are in contention for the ~3-5 slots by position, not jockeying around anywhere from 8 to 20.

 

[sansabri]

No denying that, but on a lot of teams those guys are in contention for the ~3-5 slots, not jockeying around anywhere from 8 to 20.

I think you're severely underrating a lot of teams' prospect pools.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

I think you're severely underrating a lot of teams' prospect pools.

Yeah. I mean Carolina, who is generally recognized as one of the weaker teams up front currently has a bunch of guys better at the NHL level:

Staal: 27
Skinner: 24
Rask: 23
Lindholm: 21
Teravainen: 21
Aho: 19
Nestrasil: 25
Nordstrom: 24
DiGuisseppe: 22

Then a bunch as good or better or close in the system: N. Roy, Gauthier, Saarela, McGinn, Wallmark, Kuokkanen, Tolchinsky, Zykov, Foegele, etc...

I'm not saying those guys that the Leafs fans listed aren't decent prospects, but I'd be hard pressed to see a reason to trade for any of them.

 

[4thline]

I think you're severely underrating a lot of teams' prospect pools.

No, I just look at prospects in groupings rather than rankings. Rankings unnecessarily push guys down and they end up getting devalued, punishing depth. A guy like Leipsic was a top 3-4 forward prospect in Nashville. Lindberg a top 5f in ottawa. Now they're pretty much faces, "depth" prospects despite not becoming actually getting better. Kapanen's a comparable level guy to the Tuch's and Scherbaks of the world. Vaporize the big 3 and you're still left with a solid pool with great depth, though a mediocre at best top end.

Also the canes pool is still hugely underrated, too many sleeping on Saarela still.

 

[sansabri]

No, I just look at prospects in groupings rather than rankings. Rankings unnecessarily push guys down and they end up getting devalued, punishing depth. A guy like Leipsic was a top 3-4 forward prospect in Nashville. Lindberg a top 5f in ottawa. Now they're pretty much faces, "depth" prospects despite not becoming actually getting better. Kapanen's a comparable level guy to the Tuch's and Scherbaks of the world. Vaporize the big 3 and you're still left with a solid pool with great depth, though a mediocre at best top end.

Also the canes pool is still hugely underrated, too many sleeping on Saarela still.

No he wasn't. And why are you specifically looking at forwards now? That's not what you said.

 

[4thline]

No he wasn't. And why are you specifically looking at forwards now? That's not what you said.

Honest mistake, I thought I had specified. Fits with the context of the thread.

And yeah he was. Behind Fiala and Kamenev, jockying with the likes of Aberg/Salomaki and outperforming them in the A.

 

[sansabri]

Honest mistake, I thought I had specified. Fits with the context of the thread.

And yeah he was. Behind Fiala and Kamenev, jockying with the likes of Aberg/Salomaki and outperforming them in the A.

Did you somehow forget Vesey?

 

[WhatWhat]

No denying that, but on a lot of teams those guys are in contention for the ~3-5 slots, not jockeying around anywhere from 8 to 20.

Man you guys severely overrated your guys/underrated other teams propects

 

[4thline]

Did you somehow forget Vesey?

I did. So 3-5 not 3-4. Shucks you got me, the whole point is totally invalidated

 

[4thline]

Man you guys severely overrated your guys/underrated other teams propects

Make a performance based case why Dickinson/ Ully (the Dallas 4/5 forwards in my estimation) are undeniably better (on another tier from) than Kapanen/Lindberg/Leivo/Leipsic/Brown/Timashov etc.