Forslund contract negotiations

[Nikishin Go Boom]

Have we officially hit the point in the timeline where any disagreements are due to sexism, racism, or some other sort of prejudice?

Yes we have. In a time of no personal responsibility it is okay to blame someone else than to introspect.

 

[MinJaBen]

Seems like he made the right choice there

In hindsight, sure. But they likely didn't know how well Rod would work out and had other options if they were willing to pay for them. And, if they did know how well he would perform, why would they be so cheap with him?

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

In hindsight, sure. But they likely didn't know how well Rod would work out and had other options if they were willing to pay for them. And, if they did know how well he would perform, why would they be so cheap with him?

TD said how impressed he was with him in the interview. It is probably much like the Skip Holtz situation at ECU in 2005. Someone said ‘while you doing interviews, you should interview Skip Holtz as well.” So Terry Holland interviewed Skip although he wasn’t in serious consideration (in reality the College world younger coaches are given the opportunity to practice interviewing in preparation of getting a big job in the future but, I don’t think we brought Rod in on a practice interview. The analogy isn’t 100%). Terry was so impressed with him at the interview that he won the job.
At the same time do you pay an unproven employee the same as the one with experience? Typically no. So why would he give him league average? I think Rod will have more negotiating power next go around and will see his salary go up a good amount.

 

[Navin R Slavin]

Yeah, I apologize about that. Obviously, if I knew that Sara would take offense and decide to weaponize her followers (something she was called out for, acknowledged, and said she’d try to stop doing during the whole Aho drama), I’d have left your name out of it. It was simply easier at the time to simply mention your name, since the mobile site is an absolute nightmare on the phone.

I’m still not sure where this drama came from. Judging from the responses, it was the insinuation that she doesn’t do any research for her articles(?), which I don’t think I implied. I only mentioned the Dom comment since it’s something she’s done multiple times, and she herself even has said so in her Twitter responses. But it’s apparently a joke? One that flew over my head, I suppose.

I was simply saying that writers have strengths and weaknesses in their skill set, and IMO, trying to write about the analytical side of the game is one of hers. I was the exact opposite. When I wrote, I loved digging through the numbers to see if I could quantify the unquantifiable. In fact (way back before advanced statistics were “a thing” in hockey), my first article was a big piece trying to determine if we could identify “home ice advantage” through statistics and if so, who had the biggest advantage.

But ask me to write a human interest piece? I’d hate writing it, it’d show in the writing, which in turn made me hate having to associate my name on the published work. I wouldn’t promote those articles at all and simply pray they’d die a quick painless death. It’s extremely difficult to write when the passion isn’t there

As a Sara defender, I'm a little disappointed that she chose to go to Twitter with this, when she could have just said "hey guys that's kinda bullshit" right here on the board. Feels like she got irritated and pulled the trigger a little quick. It's not like we're not frequently reading and dissecting her work here, and some of us paying for it. It's not like we don't know her work. We're not random internet antagonists. We're her fanbase.

I'm not saying she's wrong either. The "girls know marketing and boys know math" theme is a pervasive one, and it's wrong, and it's worth addressing. But like this? Are we part of the Canes family who can argue and maybe screw up once in a while, or are we content?

Not a big deal in the end, just a day in the life of Twitter. But a little disappointing.

 

[Lempo]

To clarify the issue:



For what's it worth, I didn't get the "asking from a man" vibe from the post. I though it was about Sara reposting from a specifically named known wizard guru of this stuff, genders of any parties be damned, and pointing out Jacccob Slavin's whereabouts in the said stat.

 

[AD Skinner]

acidqueen versus CI for craziest hf26 poster ever... who ya got???

Oh man blast from the past. I think CI was mostly putting on a character, but I don't remember getting that impression from acidqueen

 

[Navin R Slavin]

Oh man blast from the past. I think CI was mostly putting on a character, but I don't remember getting that impression from acidqueen

No, acidqueen was most definitely not putting on a character.

 

[tarheelhockey]

I didn't want to respond off-the-cuff to the Sara tweet, but the more I think about it... I dunno. It's just a really disappointing thing to see.

She's got over 50,000 followers, she's a primary voice for the franchise and fanbase. Why use that platform to attack random critics? I hate to think that's the direction social media is taking us with something as innocuous at hockey beat reporting.

I would understand if he had actually said something to the effect that women don't make good sportswriters, but that's not what he said and it's not who BB is as a person, according to the sum of his decade-plus on this platform. Trying to whip up a twitter mob on that basis was uncalled for.

 

[Navin R Slavin]

I didn't want to respond off-the-cuff to the Sara tweet, but the more I think about it... I dunno. It's just a really disappointing thing to see.

She's got over 50,000 followers, she's a primary voice for the franchise and fanbase. Why use that platform to attack random critics? I hate to think that's the direction social media is taking us with something as innocuous at hockey beat reporting.

I would understand if he had actually said something to the effect that women don't make good sportswriters, but that's not what he said and it's not who BB is as a person, according to the sum of his decade-plus on this platform. Trying to whip up a twitter mob on that basis was uncalled for.

Right. The thing that disappoints me is the feeling that she's punching down into her own fanbase with limited knowledge. Whether she's right or not, it feels unnecessary.

(Of course, then I look at some of the stuff on the meme thread and think "hmm, maybe we've got it coming")

 

[CandyCanes]

What happened to CI? That man was interesting.

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

To clarify the issue:



For what's it worth, I didn't get the "asking from a man" vibe from the post. I though it was about Sara reposting from a specifically named known wizard guru of this stuff, genders of any parties be damned, and pointing out Jacccob Slavin's whereabouts in the said stat.

Its just her covering her rear end and just makes it more BS. Don is the stats person on the Athletic. Is there any arguing that? If not, because someone said you ask him for stats makes its sexist? That is just bad. So if Dom was a girl they would be no issue? Smh.

If the expert is the expert in their field, their gender matters if someone says you get your information from them?

 

[emptyNedder]

I think that’s the crux of it. It was a pretty shite offer to make, but one of necessity due to the whole COVID situation. Forslund was lucky enough to have other options available to him and he took them. No harm done.

I call BS. This comes on the heels of the Charlotte relo—which was rumored prior to COVID in February.
This is simply about money and the power to use money to get others to do what you want instead of what they prefer.

 

[The Faulker 27]

It's Sara's world were just living in it.

 

[MrazeksVengeance]

To clarify the issue:



For what's it worth, I didn't get the "asking from a man" vibe from the post. I though it was about Sara reposting from a specifically named known wizard guru of this stuff, genders of any parties be damned, and pointing out Jacccob Slavin's whereabouts in the said stat.

What's the issue with asking from a man or woman or anyone for that matter if they are experts in the field? I ask from people all the time (I am known to be chaotic)... and people ask from me all the time (but I am also known as a skilled scavenger). That's how everyone involved gets things.

As a Sara defender, I'm a little disappointed that she chose to go to Twitter with this, when she could have just said "hey guys that's kinda bullshit" right here on the board. Feels like she got irritated and pulled the trigger a little quick. It's not like we're not frequently reading and dissecting her work here, and some of us paying for it. It's not like we don't know her work. We're not random internet antagonists. We're her fanbase.

I'm not saying she's wrong either. The "girls know marketing and boys know math" theme is a pervasive one, and it's wrong, and it's worth addressing. But like this? Are we part of the Canes family who can argue and maybe screw up once in a while, or are we content?

Not a big deal in the end, just a day in the life of Twitter. But a little disappointing.

It definitely doesn't help anyone who tries to get involved in some sensible conversation about this topic.

 

[Incubajerks]

Didn't sound sexist at all, she's valuable at her job but maybe in this case she couldn't take what sounded just a critique or a guess.

 

[Anton Dubinchuk]

I'm not saying she's wrong either. The "girls know marketing and boys know math" theme is a pervasive one, and it's wrong, and it's worth addressing. But like this? Are we part of the Canes family who can argue and maybe screw up once in a while, or are we content?

I agree with your overall point. As an addition, is this also not the way she's built her brand? There are plenty of women in the "math" or "hockey analysis" scene (Namita, Chayka, Shayna, Lukan to name a few), but isn't Sara just... not that? Her whole brand is decidedly not in that direction, it's about providing new and different angles to engage with the team, decidedly in the "human interest" direction. And frankly she's outstanding at it, a very good writer, and has been a massive part of the rejuvenation of people paying attention to this team around the league.

This whole thing feels very "oh so women can't know the sport or do analytics now, is that it?" No, that's not it, but providing new angles to engage with the Hurricanes players, coaches, and staff on a personal level is how you've carefully cultivated your following. Analytics and in-depth game analysis is not your slant and that's ok and frankly that seems like it was a conscious decision by you that's brought you a ton of success so maybe you were right to do so and are good at this? And if someone prefers a more analytical slant (something the Canes don't really have a dedicated presence for) that's ok and doesn't take away from the fact that you're good at what you do? Criticizing her for not being something she's not trying to be isn't fair, but probably a product of the Canes not having a single other relevant writer. Until we do get an analytics presence, she will probably continue to be criticized for not being all things to all people, and in many cases (not all) it's not coming from a sexist place but instead a "preference" place.

 

[Canes]

Have we officially hit the point in the timeline where any disagreements are due to sexism, racism, or some other sort of prejudice?

This is just the thing with blue check mark twitter (arguably one of the worst places on the interwebs, including 4chan and facebook). Any minor transgression is distorted or amplified to the max now.

 

[emptyNedder]

Right. The thing that disappoints me is the feeling that she's punching down into her own fanbase with limited knowledge. Whether she's right or not, it feels unnecessary.

(Of course, then I look at some of the stuff on the meme thread and think "hmm, maybe we've got it coming")

If she is punching down, she could be the poster child for "the new Canes."
Fans in Charlotte—sorry the fee from your franchise owner is more important than your connection to an in-state team.

Fans who watch broadcasts—sorry you don't deserve the best announcer.

Sara to HF-26 posters—sorry, you sexists losers don't deserve respect.

 

[Anton Dubinchuk]

As far as generally charity is concerned though, I know at her previous employer she was a directly targeted victim of sexism (unsure of exact details so won't get more specific than "sexism", but I gather it was pretty brutal and her previous place of employment has a history of it), so if she's particularly attuned to see connections with this type of thing I get it and maybe give it a pass unless she digs in further. Like Hank said, "disappointed" but not a big thing.

(Only bringing this up because she in fact tweeted about it again this morning, I can see why connections may have been made given past experiences)

 

[MrazeksVengeance]

Right. The thing that disappoints me is the feeling that she's punching down into her own fanbase with limited knowledge. Whether she's right or not, it feels unnecessary.

(Of course, then I look at some of the stuff on the meme thread and think "hmm, maybe we've got it coming")

Did we have it coming? For what reason? Bunch of dumb jokes?

white-male echo chamber

I will go on to assume that @Lempo @Lucky Lindy and @Incubajerks are also white. Well... I am. But I am pretty certain, we are dispersing your echo simply by being on the other side of Atlantic. Trust me, we're more different from you US guys than some of you would believe. Not to mention the differences between each of us just by the virtue of the recent European history.

 

[Navin R Slavin]

I don't know about all that.

I guess it's this: we're a small fanbase. We're pretty tightly connected. It feels like my little hockey family. We argue, we say dumb shit, we get tired of each other, we curate ignore lists from time to time, just like any family. A lot of us have been on this board together for a long, long time.

So Sara shows up and makes it clear that she's part of the family, which is cool! But then when Uncle BB says something she doesn't like, rather than saying "hey Uncle BB, cool it," she embarrasses Uncle BB on the internet with a one-liner, in front of all her cooler friends.

I mean, this is how tribalism works, right? We are more forgiving of the people in our tribe, because we know them. Sara presents herself as one of the tribe, which gets us all excited because she's got the access and the checkmark and all that, and then she goes and embarrasses someone from the tribe for what feels like a fairly minor transgression, and strangers from outside the tribe spend the day piling on to him.

It stings. It feels bad. I don't like it.

 

[tarheelhockey]

when she could have just said "hey guys that's kinda bullshit" right here on the board.

Exactly. I don't think for one second that BB was insinuating she needed a man to explain numbers, but even if he had actually meant that... she has an account here. Ask him to explain himself, or simply clap back. He's right there, all it takes is tapping the keyboard.

There's a very deliberate method in screencapping the comment to Twitter and then posting a "response" where it won't be seen by BB, but will be seen by 50,000 random people who have no context for what was said. So a dedicated, very reasonable member of the fanbase gets mobbed because he had the gall to make a very normal criticism of someone who self-identifies as an influencer.

This is some toxic bullshit our community doesn't need.

 

[Navin R Slavin]

Did we have it coming? For what reason? Bunch of dumb jokes?

Go back through the history of that meme thread with a critical eye and you'll see some stuff in pretty questionable taste, and people who aren't regulars here, if that's all they see of us, could develop some ideas. That's all I'm saying.

 

[Joe McGrath]

I’m confused, why on earth wouldn’t she get info from Dom? Isn’t he an expert? She should be getting info from him as should any other beat writer of any race, creed, or gender.

 

[Svechhammer]

I take 1 week away and you all are now getting into fights with Sara on Twitter

what the hell, everyone?