Forslund contract negotiations

[Lempo]

I follow Sara from different angles sometimes. I like the “insider” feel when it comes to their lives and day to day humor of the guys and in terms of her coverage it’s her strong suit. When she goes more in depth into the actual hockey it’s not so much my bag. Watching her personal life mixed in is sometimes kind of like watching a train wreck that you can’t stop watching in a reality tv kind of way. That’s what people relate to today and as others have said if it brings the team more attention leading to more butts in seats than so be it. I get the whole concept of “if it’s not for you watch something else”. She does bring an element into it that on a personal level I don’t really respect as much and don’t personally want so much for my team but that’s where I have to stop watching her and read something else. I do like more “traditional” coverage at times for the details and wonder if they can’t just have someone to cover that aspect instead of having her trying to be both sides all the time. Maybe let her be who she is and let that grow, and have someone else bring the other side?

She’s obviously popular and you want that to continue as it’s only good for the team. I’m sure I’m in the minority on wanting more at times.

This is... maybe not too different from what we got going in Finland with the international hockey play-by-play guy, when put like this.

The guy got his position cemented by being there when some serious success happened, and he got his personal hyperiffic brand stamped onto the Lions hockey broadcasts. Alas, from the strictly hockey point of view his play-by-play analysis leaves much to be hoped for, and reportedly he also refuses to have anyone more knowledgeable commentator seconding with him.

The fans of the tactical side of hockey have long found this dumbing-down-for-masses situation intolerable.

There are risks associated if the "brand" of a visible media person goes ahead of what should be the actual product. It's debatable I guess if it is a bad thing or a good thing for the Canes if a number of Sara's followers may not actually be that into hockey at all but are there more for the a-girl-reporter-making-waves-and-establishing-presence-in-a-more-traditionalist-type-of-sports thing. Obviously keeping in mind that Canes haven't themselves been that popular in the eyes of the actual hockey traditionalists with all the hijinks and whatnot.

 

[hblueridgegal]

 

[Blueline Bomber]

I'm with bleedgreen on this one. Sara's great when it comes to the "behind the scenes", "down to earth", etc more personal stories about the players. Her more analysis-focused, technical side of the game stories leave a lot to be desired. Though it seems like most of the time, it's just her requesting info from Dom Luszczyszyn, posting that info and saying "Jacob Slavin everybody"

 

[bleedgreen]

This is... maybe not too different from what we got going in Finland with the international hockey play-by-play guy, when put like this.

The guy got his position cemented by being there when some serious success happened, and he got his personal hyperiffic brand stamped onto the Lions hockey broadcasts. Alas, from the strictly hockey point of view his play-by-play analysis leaves much to be hoped for, and reportedly he also refuses to have anyone more knowledgeable commentator seconding with him.

The fans of the tactical side of hockey have long found this dumbing-down-for-masses situation intolerable.

There are risks associated if the "brand" of a visible media person goes ahead of what should be the actual product. It's debatable I guess if it is a bad thing or a good thing for the Canes if a number of Sara's followers may not actually be that into hockey at all but are there more for the a-girl-reporter-making-waves-and-establishing-presence-in-a-more-traditionalist-type-of-sports thing. Obviously keeping in mind that Canes haven't themselves been that popular in the eyes of the actual hockey traditionalists with all the hijinks and whatnot.

That's where I have fun with it as much as anyone else. I don't live in NC but as a fan all the jokes and snubs are the same as I faced as a Whalers fan and I relate to being insulted by that so when the team and in some cases the coverage flips traditional hockey the bird I love it as much as anyone else here does. It's a very "us" thing to have her and her style, which is why I don't really say much when I don't enjoy it at times myself.

 

[Navin R Slavin]

I'm with bleedgreen on this one. Sara's great when it comes to the "behind the scenes", "down to earth", etc more personal stories about the players. Her more analysis-focused, technical side of the game stories leave a lot to be desired. Though it seems like most of the time, it's just her requesting info from Dom Luszczyszyn, posting that info and saying "Jacob Slavin everybody"

Yes. Fortunately, the Athletic does have Dom for those stories, and he's great at telling them.

 

[Sens1Canes2]

I propose that Forslund be replaced in the booth by Sara Civian.

Sara and Tripp. Let that sink in for a minute.

Will there be a 7 second delay to bleep all the “likes” and “you knows?”

 

[Navin R Slavin]

Guessing Sara knows her limitations well enough to be terrified by such a prospect. There's a reason she's a writer, I suspect.

 

[tarheelhockey]

 

[MinJaBen]

 

[Lempo]

Tangentially related:

https://www.is.fi/yleisurheilu/art-2000006573609.html (in Finnish)

Sprint runner Samuli Samuelsson clocked in the all-time fourth fastest time in 100 meters in Finland a week ago. The Finnish record is close enough for him to plausibly grap it.

On his way to the said contest he emailed a company the products of which he's been using for years regarding sponsorship prospects.

The answer: "Yeah the minimum requirement is that you have at least 10,000 active followers on your Instagram account before we will even start negotiations on a sponsorship contract."

 

[tarheelhockey]

Tangentially related:

https://www.is.fi/yleisurheilu/art-2000006573609.html (in Finnish)

Sprint runner Samuli Samuelsson clocked in the all-time fourth fastest time in 100 meters in Finland a week ago. The Finnish record is close enough for him to plausibly grap it.

On his way to the said contest he emailed a company the products of which he's been using for years regarding sponsorship prospects.

The answer: "Yeah the minimum requirement is that you have at least 10,000 active followers on your Instagram account before we will even start negotiations on a sponsorship contract."

Hopefully right about now his social media is nothing but negative reviews of their product.

 

[Vagrant]

i didn't really know what i was starting here. sara is fine by me, for the record. my point wasn't even entirely to talk about her specifically, but use her as an example of the type of branding philosophy that new media requires and how the lack of that type of clout as the kids are calling it can tremendously limit your marketability in the event you are detached from the specific job with which you have conflated your personal identity. it wasn't a value judgment, though i do have some preferences on the matter, but rather an observation regarding why a person like dundon who is incredibly analytics driven might not be too keen on paying top of the market value for a position that might only be marginally impacted by his presence from a dollars and cents perspective. that's why it's smart to diversify yourself in as many ways as possible and why you're seeing a lot of these entrenched hockey people starting to engage with different formats to maintain relevancy. the space is changing so rapidly that you, specifically, need a quantifiable fanbase of actual numeric and calculable measure.

 

[Navin R Slavin]

He'll have that data when the broadcast share goes down during the next rough stretch, whenever that is.

 

[Anton Dubinchuk]

Merging these two topics seamlessly, Sara just spoke to John:

'This is not my wish': John Forslund disappointed by...

“This is not a situation of me leaving on my own accord.”

“(Waddell) has said (the Canes are ‘leaving the door open’) multiple times and I appreciate it,” Forslund said. “That’s nice of him to say. But what does that really mean, though? There’s no dialogue. I would never look at a statement like that and scoff at it, but I want the reality to be there too, of, there isn’t anything happening. I don’t want any false pretense or anything like that with the fans. There’s nothing happening between myself and the team. And until that happens — or if it never happens that’s understandable — then I have to deal with the reality of being free for the first time in my career. It’s the first time in my career I’ve been in a position like this. I’m not really good at it.”

Forslund said he has seen fans’ well-wishes, by the way, and he’s overwhelmed with gratitude.
“I want to say how appreciative I am of all of that,” he said. “There will be a time I can address that the right way, but I see every bit of it, appreciate every ounce of it. It makes me feel like what I did here was meaningful, had an impact. I hope it would have but you just never know until something like this happens, unfortunately.”

 

[AD Skinner]

I get that there's a possibility that next season doesnt even happen and that no one wants to pay an employee for a service they won't be able to provide. But jeez louise just pay him it is worth the good will. Especially if there is a season but attendance isnt an option you need someone people want to watch on tv

 

[Navin R Slavin]

Goddammit.

 

[Wolfpuck]

I hate it.

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

I wonder how John defines not leaving on his own accord?
Because if you’re made an offer and you choose not to accept it, you are leaving on your own accord.

now if the Canes didn’t make him an offer then, yes he didn’t leave on his own accord​

 

[Vagrant]

for the record, i hate it too. my posts aren't meant to detract from that sentiment. it's just that this is showing the danger of having faith that your value is understood in any particular vocation. even with the words of support from colleagues, coworkers, peers, etc. we live in a climate now that none of those things matter unless you deliver the goods and sometimes the meaning of that is nebulous. it's a shame, but it's the way the world is now. coffee is for closers and the only opinion that matters is on the ledger.

 

[Vagrant]

I wonder how John defines not leaving on his own accord?
Because if you’re made an offer and you choose not to accept it, you are leaving on your own accord.

now if the Canes didn’t make him an offer then, yes he didn’t leave on bis own accord​

the strong insinuation is that the offer that was presented to the broadcast team was very much built upon incentives for viewership, attendance, and other factors in which they only have limited control and those were the metrics that would determine their salary. basically as contracted employees with merit based pay. john, understandably, considered that an insult to the work he has put into this market and the fanbase that he has built. it was a non-starter for negotiations moving forward for john to not have the financial stability of a salaried position.

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

the strong insinuation is that the offer that was presented to the broadcast team was very much built upon incentives for viewership, attendance, and other factors in which they only have limited control and those were the metrics that would determine their salary. basically as contracted employees with merit based pay. john, understandably, considered that an insult to the work he has put into this market and the fanbase that he has built. it was a non-starter for negotiations moving forward for john to not have the financial stability of a salaried position.

But that is leaving on his own accord, yes?

knowing it is John is definitely playing the ‘woe is me card‘ to the media.

 

[Vagrant]

But that is leaving on his own accord, yes?

knowing it is John is definitely playing the ‘woe is me card‘ to the media.

in a sense it's his choice, in a sense it's probably not. there is such a thing as making an offer so beneath your market value that the insinuation is that we don't want you here anymore. francis took a demotion like that unexpectedly and only last a brief time after it. the goal with an offer like that is to have you walk away from it which is interpreted as a win, or you take it and make a pittance of your value and it's interpreted as a win. on paper it looks like an attempt was made to retain you, but the writing on the wall suggests that even if the illusion suggests that you have a decision in this, we've devalued the position and we want someone less qualified to take less money to do it.

 

[Vagrant]

this is happening exactly as predicted, abby labar takes the seat from maniscalco and the internships begin.

 

[Lempo]

in a sense it's his choice, in a sense it's probably not. there is such a thing as making an offer so beneath your market value that the insinuation is that we don't want you here anymore. francis took a demotion like that unexpectedly and only last a brief time after it. the goal with an offer like that is to have you walk away from it which is interpreted as a win, or you take it and make a pittance of your value and it's interpreted as a win. on paper it looks like an attempt was made to retain you, but the writing on the wall suggests that even if the illusion suggests that you have a decision in this, we've devalued the position and we want someone less qualified to take less money to do it.

Devil's advocate: 17 of 18 (or something to that tune) took the similar offer that Canes put to them, so in that sense it doesn't look like a "go away" offer.

But obviously it quite likely is a serious pay cut to everyone in question, and obviously the form of employment is transformed into one that is substantial worsening to the employee. And the thing is, even if coronavirus situation ultimately will get better, this won't change back to what it was anymore. This was the employer making a very harsh opportunistic move with permanent implications on the terms of work, the sort that will send your best employees evaluating their options.

And having had everyone else in their employment swallow it, it's hard for the Canes to give Forslund a preferential treatment at this point lest there be a revolt of some sort.

 

[Canes]

I wonder how John defines not leaving on his own accord?
Because if you’re made an offer and you choose not to accept it, you are leaving on your own accord.

now if the Canes didn’t make him an offer then, yes he didn’t leave on his own accord​

On your own accord
The Caniacs will miss you
Come back John Forslund
​