OT: Football Thread

[Barnaby]

Giants have $5 million is space this season while Jimmy G has a $27 million cap hit. That's a lot to figure out.

Impossible in a hockey world. Difficult but possible in the NFL world. SF could eat half. Contracts can be restructured. It may not happen, but I’d be surprised if the article came out and it hasn’t at least been legitimately discussed. If they don’t come out and say “Jones is our guy. He’s our QB1,” then I think that’s telling.

That is not happening. No chance. Trading DJ after June 1st would actually cost a 4.2 mill dead cap hit.


You are right and that 5 mill is not a lot to go through the season with. They still need insurance at center and cb.

There was also no chance they were taking a RB at 2OA when they didn’t have a QB in a QB heavy draft. A lot of those guys haven’t panned out but at the time it was considered a great class.

 

[sbjnyc]

Impossible in a hockey world. Difficult but possible in the NFL world. SF could eat half. Contracts can be restructured. It may not happen, but I’d be surprised if the article came out and it hasn’t at least been legitimately discussed. If they don’t come out and say “Jones is our guy. He’s our QB1,” then I think that’s telling.


There was also no chance they were taking a RB at 2OA when they didn’t have a QB in a QB heavy draft. A lot of those guys haven’t panned out but at the time it was considered a great class.

Why would SF eat anything? But yes Giants can always restructure Jimmy G's contract which would mean they are resigning him. SF is not taking Daniel Jones back in a trade (whether or not he is better than Lance).

And not impossible in a hockey world either. Maybe Daniel Jones is allergic to his helmet this season.

 

[NickyFotiu]

Impossible in a hockey world. Difficult but possible in the NFL world. SF could eat half. Contracts can be restructured. It may not happen, but I’d be surprised if the article came out and it hasn’t at least been legitimately discussed. If they don’t come out and say “Jones is our guy. He’s our QB1,” then I think that’s telling.


There was also no chance they were taking a RB at 2OA when they didn’t have a QB in a QB heavy draft. A lot of those guys haven’t panned out but at the time it was considered a great class.

I never said there was no chance at a QB in 2018. Actually many papers had us taking Barkley at #2. We did not have a chance to draft Baker. Darnold and Rosen turned out bad. Could have had Allen though. There is no chance we are taking Jimmy G. It makes zero sense. They would not keep him so why waste any assets for him? Never mind the cap and other assorted reasons.

 

[Barnaby]

I never said there was no chance at a QB in 2018. Actually many papers had us taking Barkley at #2. We did not have a chance to draft Baker. Darnold and Rosen turned out bad. Could have had Allen though. There is no chance we are taking Jimmy G. It makes zero sense. They would not keep him so why waste any assets for him? Never mind the cap and other assorted reasons.

SF could also cut him. I’m not sure what his dead cap number would be. I’m not saying that it’s going to happen, but I do think the possibility exists. Jones isn’t the new regimes guy so they probably don’t have any loyalty towards him. If the reports from camp are true that he’s been outplayed by Tyrod Taylor then I could see them kicking tires on it. Jimmy G isn’t someone that I would imagine anyone sees as “the guy,” but I could see him having an Alex Smith type arc... He’s not winning you a title, but in a weak division with a decent supporting cast he’ll make you competitive. Does he sign a more team friendly deal for the opportunity to start? I don’t see SF carrying him all year as a backup.

As for Barkley being mocked to the NYG at the time I believe it was a series of comments by Gettleman alluding to it. It really made zero sense at the time. He thought he could use bubble gum and scotch tape to cobble together another run or two with Eli whose best days were clearly behind him.

 

[sbjnyc]

SF could also cut him. I’m not sure what his dead cap number would be. I’m not saying that it’s going to happen, but I do think the possibility exists. Jones isn’t the new regimes guy so they probably don’t have any loyalty towards him. If the reports from camp are true that he’s been outplayed by Tyrod Taylor then I could see them kicking tires on it. Jimmy G isn’t someone that I would imagine anyone sees as “the guy,” but I could see him having an Alex Smith type arc... He’s not winning you a title, but in a weak division with a decent supporting cast he’ll make you competitive. Does he sign a more team friendly deal for the opportunity to start? I don’t see SF carrying him all year as a backup.

As for Barkley being mocked to the NYG at the time I believe it was a series of comments by Gettleman alluding to it.

Yes they can cut him. There ar no guarantees so he'd have to sign a new contract. Overthecap.com shows $1.4 million in dead money (which is why they wouldn't eat any salary in a trade). He may get cut if I'm reading the situation correctly but the Giants still don't have the cap space to sign him anyway. It's not a case where he's earning that $20 million and can sign a vet minimum contract.

 

[Barnaby]

Why would SF eat anything? But yes Giants can always restructure Jimmy G's contract which would mean they are resigning him. SF is not taking Daniel Jones back in a trade (whether or not he is better than Lance).

And not impossible in a hockey world either. Maybe Daniel Jones is allergic to his helmet this season.

Why did the Browns eat money on Baker? It’s a possibility if teams aren’t willing to pay him at 25 million. They could also restructure. If the new regime is that down on Jones then maybe they kick tires on it. Giants have been bad for a long time. In theory they should tank and take a QB at the top of the next draft, but I doubt that’s Mara’s plan. They probably see a weak division and figure with average QB play they can make some noise. Is it the move I’d make? No, it isn’t but I can see some logic in it.

Edit: With so little dead money cutting him is a possibility. SF is probably hoping someone’s QB goes down and they have a Bradford to Philly type scenario.

 

[NickyFotiu]

SF could also cut him. I’m not sure what his dead cap number would be. I’m not saying that it’s going to happen, but I do think the possibility exists. Jones isn’t the new regimes guy so they probably don’t have any loyalty towards him. If the reports from camp are true that he’s been outplayed by Tyrod Taylor then I could see them kicking tires on it. Jimmy G isn’t someone that I would imagine anyone sees as “the guy,” but I could see him having an Alex Smith type arc... He’s not winning you a title, but in a weak division with a decent supporting cast he’ll make you competitive. Does he sign a more team friendly deal for the opportunity to start? I don’t see SF carrying him all year as a backup.

As for Barkley being mocked to the NYG at the time I believe it was a series of comments by Gettleman alluding to it. It really made zero sense at the time. He thought he could use bubble gum and scotch tape to cobble together another run or two with Eli whose best days were clearly behind him.

I do not know what reports you are reading. Taylor has barely played. DJ has done really well. He has had 3 ints but that is nothing compared to how many TDs he has thrown in the first 4 days.
I'm sorry I just do not see the logic of Jimmy G this season at all. I'd be absolutely shocked if it happens. Lets come back to this thread when the season starts or Jimmy G is moved.
The Giants are trying to build for the future. Jimmy G is not that future. I'm hopeful for DJ but if its not DJ then it will be a draft pick next summer or the summer after that. Jimmy G is not really a help for the future at all. He may go to Seattle, Cleveland or someplace else but I doubt it will be to the Giants. I'm not bashing Jimmy G. I just do not see the logic at all for a move to the Giants.

 

[Barnaby]

I do not know what reports you are reading. Taylor has barely played. DJ has done really well. He has had 3 ints but that is nothing compared to how many TDs he has thrown in the first 4 days.
I'm sorry I just do not see the logic of Jimmy G this season at all. I'd be absolutely shocked if it happens. Lets come back to this thread when the season starts or Jimmy G is moved.
The Giants are trying to build for the future. Jimmy G is not that future. I'm hopeful for DJ but if its not DJ then it will be a draft pick next summer or the summer after that. Jimmy G is not really a help for the future at all. He may go to Seattle, Cleveland or someplace else but I doubt it will be to the Giants. I'm not bashing Jimmy G. I just do not see the logic at all for a move to the Giants.

I read an article that said DJ wasn't playing well, and was being outplayed by Taylor. I forget where I read it, but obviously that would be an oddly strange thing to make up. With that said, the article may be wrong or exaggerated. I'm a Jet fan so I follow them more closely but I also like and follow the NYG. I'm not saying that I'd trade/sign Jimmy G. I was just responding to articles that made the Giants out to be interested, but who knows. I think if the NYG did go that way it'd be more stopgap than answer. I don't think the new NYG regime legit expects to see Jimmy G hoisting the Lombardi trophy in Giant blue. I see him in the Alex Smith role. He can win games. He's good enough to keep you competitive while you draft and groom the next guy. I personally don't think Daniel Jones is the next guy so I think either way your dealing with a placeholder. I'd be a little surprised if this happened but not shocked. This regime didn't draft DJ and I think ultimately they'll want to draft and invest in their own guy. In the meantime, if they can be an 'in the hunt for a playoff spot' team come late November or early December then they'll take it. If they think Jimmy G gets them there then maybe they'll swing for it. As for the logic, I do see a scenario where it makes sense, but it all comes down to how the GM/Coach evaluate the position. Personally, I think the smartest longterm move would be to shed bad contracts, bottom out, and hope to draft the next franchise QB. Similar to what Jets started doing a couple years ago (which may or may not have worked out - too early to judge), but i think Mara is tired of losing.

 

[sbjnyc]

Why did the Browns eat money on Baker? It’s a possibility if teams aren’t willing to pay him at 25 million. They could also restructure. If the new regime is that down on Jones then maybe they kick tires on it. Giants have been bad for a long time. In theory they should tank and take a QB at the top of the next draft, but I doubt that’s Mara’s plan. They probably see a weak division and figure with average QB play they can make some noise. Is it the move I’d make? No, it isn’t but I can see some logic in it.

Edit: With so little dead money cutting him is a possibility. SF is probably hoping someone’s QB goes down and they have a Bradford to Philly type scenario.

Browns ate money because they are stupid. First they tried to trade for Watson pissing off Baker. Watson says no so they exercise Baker's 5th year option while Baker wants out. Watson changes his mind so Browns trade for him and sign him for $230 million fully guanrateed. Meanwhile Browns also have a $19 million guaranteed contract with mayfield who does not want to be there. Oops. Though despite all this they still have nearly $50 million in cap space.

Perhaps the Panthers are also stupid. I can't say that Mayfield busted as spectacularly as Darnold did, but they probably would have been a lot better off with Jimmy G for a bit more money than trading for both 1OA and 3OA busts from the same draft for their 5th year options.

 

[Barnaby]

Browns ate money because they are stupid. First they tried to trade for Watson pissing off Baker. Watson says no so they exercise Baker's 5th year option while Baker wants out. Watson changes his mind so Browns trade for him and sign him for $230 million fully guanrateed. Meanwhile Browns also have a $19 million guaranteed contract with mayfield who does not want to be there. Oops. Though despite all this they still have nearly $50 million in cap space.

Perhaps the Panthers are also stupid. I can't say that Mayfield busted as spectacularly as Darnold did, but they probably would have been a lot better off with Jimmy G for a bit more money than trading for both 1OA and 3OA busts from the same draft for their 5th year options.

The Cleveland situation is insane. That trade. That contract. The Baker situation. All of it. I can still barely rap my head around it.

Carolina is kind of a strange situation. I thought the Darnold move was smart at the time, although it turned out not to be. I really thought Darnold would establish himself in the mold of a Ryan Tannehill. You figured he was going to have a much stronger supporting cast than he did with the Jets. He seems like a solid individual, and a fresh start outside NY seemed like just what he needed. My biggest fear with Darnold was the 'seeing ghosts' comment. That's not what you want to hear from a starting QB. It makes you think he can't process well enough. Baker vs Jimmy G is a tough one. I feel like the risk/reward for Baker is greater. He could bring you to the playoffs and inspire the team, or cause a ton of drama and get the coaching staff fired. He's looked very good at times. He was coming off an injury so maybe you write off last year. Jimmy G I think, what you see is what you get. He's going to say the right things. His teammates will like him. He's 'capable,' but he's not good enough to put a team on his back. I've said this a few times already but Jimmy G gives me Alex Smith vibes.

 

[NickyFotiu]

I read an article that said DJ wasn't playing well, and was being outplayed by Taylor. I forget where I read it, but obviously that would be an oddly strange thing to make up. With that said, the article may be wrong or exaggerated. I'm a Jet fan so I follow them more closely but I also like and follow the NYG. I'm not saying that I'd trade/sign Jimmy G. I was just responding to articles that made the Giants out to be interested, but who knows. I think if the NYG did go that way it'd be more stopgap than answer. I don't think the new NYG regime legit expects to see Jimmy G hoisting the Lombardi trophy in Giant blue. I see him in the Alex Smith role. He can win games. He's good enough to keep you competitive while you draft and groom the next guy. I personally don't think Daniel Jones is the next guy so I think either way your dealing with a placeholder. I'd be a little surprised if this happened but not shocked. This regime didn't draft DJ and I think ultimately they'll want to draft and invest in their own guy. In the meantime, if they can be an 'in the hunt for a playoff spot' team come late November or early December then they'll take it. If they think Jimmy G gets them there then maybe they'll swing for it. As for the logic, I do see a scenario where it makes sense, but it all comes down to how the GM/Coach evaluate the position. Personally, I think the smartest longterm move would be to shed bad contracts, bottom out, and hope to draft the next franchise QB. Similar to what Jets started doing a couple years ago (which may or may not have worked out - too early to judge), but i think Mara is tired of losing.

Sometimes people write click bait and have their own narratives. Pat Leonard is hated by Giants fans for his nonsense. That is the NY media at times. The coach and GM seem like they are already not thrilled with Pat now. The team owner is very high on DJ. A lot of big name QBs were on the move this offseason. We did not look at any. When Taylor was signed he was told he is the backup. You say we should try to draft the next franchise QB. If that is the plan why waste assets, and money bringing Jimmy G in for a 1 and done season? That is why I say it is not logical. Anyway the season will be starting soon. I will make you a gentleman's bet it is DJ not Jimmy G lining up under center vs Tennessee on 9-11-2022

 

[NickyFotiu]

Browns ate money because they are stupid. First they tried to trade for Watson pissing off Baker. Watson says no so they exercise Baker's 5th year option while Baker wants out. Watson changes his mind so Browns trade for him and sign him for $230 million fully guanrateed. Meanwhile Browns also have a $19 million guaranteed contract with mayfield who does not want to be there. Oops. Though despite all this they still have nearly $50 million in cap space.

Perhaps the Panthers are also stupid. I can't say that Mayfield busted as spectacularly as Darnold did, but they probably would have been a lot better off with Jimmy G for a bit more money than trading for both 1OA and 3OA busts from the same draft for their 5th year options.

Panthers got Baker for almost nothing. Main reason the Browns did that is they had no choice. Nobody wanted Baker. Seattle did not want him. The Giants did not want him. It was a smart move by Carolina. They get Baker for 1 year for free. If he does not work out nothing lost.

 

[Barnaby]

Sometimes people write click bait and have their own narratives. Pat Leonard is hated by Giants fans for his nonsense. That is the NY media at times. The coach and GM seem like they are already not thrilled with Pat now. The team owner is very high on DJ. A lot of big name QBs were on the move this offseason. We did not look at any. When Taylor was signed he was told he is the backup. You say we should try to draft the next franchise QB. If that is the plan why waste assets, and money bringing Jimmy G in for a 1 and done season? That is why I say it is not logical. Anyway the season will be starting soon. I will make you a gentleman's bet it is DJ not Jimmy G lining up under center vs Tennessee on 9-11-2022

It's a good point that they didn't look at anyone, although the only real difference maker was Watson and I just couldn't see Mara going that way. The team deifies Eli to the point that they drafted a QB whose practically his clone. I can't see them going for Watson to see daily masseuse interviews in the NY Post.

I 100% believe that the plan is to draft a QB in the next draft. I think if there was a guy that they were really high on this past draft that they'd have gone for him. At best, I think DJ will be a very pedestrian starter. Personally, I see him having a long career as a well paid backup in the Geno Smith mold. I really don't see that he's shown to be any better than a Darnold or Mayfield and I wouldn't be thrilled going into the year with either of them as my starter. I don't think anyone really sees him going toe to toe with Herbert, Mahomes, Allen etc... That, plus the value of having a starting QB on a rookie contract is huge.

As for assets, I think you'd be getting him for practically peanuts. I don't think anyone is giving up any legitimate assets for him. I don't think anyone has proposed giving up a high end young player or draft pick for him. I think it would be along the lines of a 5th round pick.

I do agree that DJ is most likely to be starting week 1 for the Giants, but I do see a scenario where Jimmy G could make sense. If you want to win games and you really don't believe in the QB then maybe you go that way. The GM didn't draft Jones so he has no skin in the game. Maybe they feel it brings in a bit of a culture change. For all his warts, Jimmy G has won a lot of games and been in the playoffs. Jones has not.

 

[NickyFotiu]

It's a good point that they didn't look at anyone, although the only real difference maker was Watson and I just couldn't see Mara going that way. The team deifies Eli to the point that they drafted a QB whose practically his clone. I can't see them going for Watson to see daily masseuse interviews in the NY Post.

I 100% believe that the plan is to draft a QB in the next draft. I think if there was a guy that they were really high on this past draft that they'd have gone for him. At best, I think DJ will be a very pedestrian starter. Personally, I see him having a long career as a well paid backup in the Geno Smith mold. I really don't see that he's shown to be any better than a Darnold or Mayfield and I wouldn't be thrilled going into the year with either of them as my starter. I don't think anyone really sees him going toe to toe with Herbert, Mahomes, Allen etc... That, plus the value of having a starting QB on a rookie contract is huge.

As for assets, I think you'd be getting him for practically peanuts. I don't think anyone is giving up any legitimate assets for him. I don't think anyone has proposed giving up a high end young player or draft pick for him. I think it would be along the lines of a 5th round pick.

I do agree that DJ is most likely to be starting week 1 for the Giants, but I do see a scenario where Jimmy G could make sense. If you want to win games and you really don't believe in the QB then maybe you go that way. The GM didn't draft Jones so he has no skin in the game. Maybe they feel it brings in a bit of a culture change. For all his warts, Jimmy G has won a lot of games and been in the playoffs. Jones has not.

Don't you think what you have been saying in contradictory? If the plan is to 100% draft a QB (as you have said) the last thing you want is to give up assets and have to cut players to bring Jimmy G on a 1 and done contract to "win games" (as you have said). If the plan is to draft a QB the last thing you want is to worsen your draft position especially not for a guy you have no plan on keeping.

Matt Ryan, Deshawn Watson, Russel Wilson, Matt Ryan, Carson Wentz were all moved this offseason. We did not think twice about any of them.

I'd be surprised if SF is willing to eat 20 mill plus in salary for a 5th round pick. I think they will either insist on better compensation or they will not eat that salary.

 

[Barnaby]

Don't you think what you have been saying in contradictory? If the plan is to 100% draft a QB (as you have said) the last thing you want is to give up assets and have to cut players to bring Jimmy G on a 1 and done contract to "win games" (as you have said). If the plan is to draft a QB the last thing you want is to worsen your draft position especially not for a guy you have no plan on keeping.

Matt Ryan, Deshawn Watson, Russel Wilson, Matt Ryan, Carson Wentz were all moved this offseason. We did not think twice about any of them.

I'd be surprised if SF is willing to eat 20 mill plus in salary for a 5th round pick. I think they will either insist on better compensation or they will not eat that salary.

They may cut him. In that scenario maybe he takes a reasonable offer for an opportunity to play to hopefully get another contract from someone. No, I’m not expecting SF to essentially pay $20 million for a 5th rounder. Another option is he agrees to a restructure in an agreement to get dealt to a team where he could play.

Do I think it’s contradictory? Not necessarily. Is this my idea? No, it isn’t. It was in the news. Maybe there is zero validity to this. Maybe it was reported because the Giants have shown some level of interest. You talk like I conjured this up for fun and won’t shut up about it. Obviously if the new GM/coach were enamored with DJ they would’ve picked up his option.

If I ran things I’d be looking to move any problematic contracts, bottom out, and hopefully draft the next stud QB. However, if the new regime doesn’t care for DJ and thinks they can compete in the NFC East with a solid starter then it’s a possibility. I wouldn’t be the least bit surprised if Mara is tired of losing and doesn’t want a 4 win season. It also wouldn’t shock me if they want a steady vet who would allow them to draft and groom a young guy like KC did.

I’m not saying this is what I would do, but if they did it then I could see some logic behind it.

 

[NickyFotiu]

They may cut him. In that scenario maybe he takes a reasonable offer for an opportunity to play to hopefully get another contract from someone. No, I’m not expecting SF to essentially pay $20 million for a 5th rounder. Another option is he agrees to a restructure in an agreement to get dealt to a team where he could play.

Do I think it’s contradictory? Not necessarily. Is this my idea? No, it isn’t. It was in the news. Maybe there is zero validity to this. Maybe it was reported because the Giants have shown some level of interest. You talk like I conjured this up for fun and won’t shut up about it. Obviously if the new GM/coach were enamored with DJ they would’ve picked up his option.

If I ran things I’d be looking to move any problematic contracts, bottom out, and hopefully draft the next stud QB. However, if the new regime doesn’t care for DJ and thinks they can compete in the NFC East with a solid starter then it’s a possibility. I wouldn’t be the least bit surprised if Mara is tired of losing and doesn’t want a 4 win season. It also wouldn’t shock me if they want a steady vet who would allow them to draft and groom a young guy like KC did.

I’m not saying this is what I would do, but if they did it then I could see some logic behind it.

I respectfully disagree so we will have to wait and see if it happens. I see less than a 5% chance Jimmy G is chosen over a healthy DJ or TT this season.

 

[Barnaby]

I respectfully disagree so we will have to wait and see if it happens. I see less than a 5% chance Jimmy G is chosen over a healthy DJ or TT this season.

That’s what makes the world go round. If the 3 are standing in a line then I think JG gives you the best chance to win. Personally, I probably wouldn’t go through the process of acquiring because I still don’t see them as a playoff team. We’ll see what happens.

 

[NickyFotiu]

That’s what makes the world go round. If the 3 are standing in a line then I think JG gives you the best chance to win. Personally, I probably wouldn’t go through the process of acquiring because I still don’t see them as a playoff team. We’ll see what happens.

If the plan is to 100% draft a franchise QB (as you said) then why would you want to win and weaken your draft position?

 

[Barnaby]

If the plan is to 100% draft a franchise QB (as you said) then why would you want to win and weaken your draft position?

I agree with that.

I’m not sure Mara does.

He’s paying pretty darn close to the cap. I’m not so sure he wants to sit through another bottom feeding year. It’s a weak division. They very well might think they can compete. These team owners often have big egos. They don’t want to be irrelevant for multiple seasons in a row.

 

[HFsNumber1Heel]

The Giants are in a self-standoff this year whether they choose to accept it or not.

6-11 would be a success. This season is a glorified longterm audition.

There will be a section of the fanbase (the "Nu Yawkaz") who can't accept or don't understand that.

Garafollo isn't going to make much of a difference and the point is to shed cap, not add.

 

[ecemleafs]

i like daniel jones. giants have done everything possible to f*** up his development. this is definitely a sink or swim year tho. if he shows hes a good nfl qb then u go with him. if hes average or worse then u let him go next spring and draft one of the studs in the 2023 draft. trading for jimmy g is dumb. hes an injury prone game manager with a big salary.

 

[NYSPORTS]

If they get Garoppolo, Jones is out I think. Garoppolo is better than Jones.

and Garoppolo stinks

 

[RagFinMet]

Fins lose 1st-rounder for Brady, Payton tampering

The NFL has stripped the Miami Dolphins of two draft picks, including their 2023 first-round selection, and suspended owner Stephen Ross and fined him $1.5 million as a result of its investigation of allegations levied by former coach Brian Flores.

www.espn.com

This owner is such an embarrassment

 

[sbjnyc]

Fins lose 1st-rounder for Brady, Payton tampering

The NFL has stripped the Miami Dolphins of two draft picks, including their 2023 first-round selection, and suspended owner Stephen Ross and fined him $1.5 million as a result of its investigation of allegations levied by former coach Brian Flores.

www.espn.com

This owner is such an embarrassment

Hey he's not daniel Snyder.

 

[sbjnyc]

I'll take"what's not a joke but should be" for$400

Cleveland Hosting National Massage Therapist Convention One Block Away From Browns Stadium - Therapist News

Deshaun Watson seemed to have his sights set on either the Falcons or Panthers earlier this year when the star QB was looking for his next team amid the legal

therapist.news