Confirmed with Link: Flyers trade Cutter Gauthier to Anaheim for Jamie Drysdale and 2025 2nd round pick

[GKJ]

(EDIT)

Click to read more...

 

[BackToTheBrierePatch]

He just fired the puck into defenders skates when they got set up on the first PP.

Did Rocky shake his head up and down in approval?

 

[deadhead]

I thought Gauthier’s floor was 30 goals? Everyone’s favorite franchise sniper, Owen Tippett, spent his entire D+3 in the AHL. Gauthier will be a fine complementary winger. He's too athletic and good of a shooter to not play. But he has never been a center or core piece. At least some of us have been consistent critiquing him.

I'll just add, drafting disappointments happens. Trading for them 4 years into their pro careers is a different animal. I understand the rope Drysdale is getting (playing him PP1 every game of his tenure, never scratching him), but there's nothing meritocratic about it. I can see the front office flop sweat. We've seen far better players than Drysdale get jerked around. Sanheim should get every drop of offensive usage; Andrae, the same age as Drysdale and with 7 career games and less physical talent, looks leagues better.

It was a joke (see meme).

If the alternative was Byram straight up, I'll take Drysdale and a high 2nd rd pick.
Drysdale is a bet that he was mishandled in Anaheim (good bet) and that Shaw may be able to fix him (he taught Risto how to play defense).

If it doesn't work out you move on. Like you said, drafting disappointments happen.
It won't make or break the franchise.
Wings and goalies they got, centers and D-men they need.

 

[trostol]

Some of the takes...

 

[freakydallas13]

It was a joke (see meme).

If the alternative was Byram straight up, I'll take Drysdale and a high 2nd rd pick.
Drysdale is a bet that he was mishandled in Anaheim (good bet) and that Shaw may be able to fix him (he taught Risto how to play defense).

If it doesn't work out you move on. Like you said, drafting disappointments happen.
It won't make or break the franchise.
Wings and goalies they got, centers and D-men they need.

Trading a winger who has a 30 goal floor, for a defender 2 years older who can't defend and a high second is basically trading a winger who has a 30 goal floor for a high second.

Truly a masterful gambit by Briere.

Oh and so much for Flahr's drafting prowess, can't even hit on a 5th overall pick.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

If the alternative was Byram straight up, I'll take Drysdale and a high 2nd rd pick.

There's no rule that they had to get back a player. We have evidence that they tried to trade him straight up for a pick. A fun hypothetical for everyone:

It's draft Day 2024. Drysdale has the same 2023-24 play in Anaheim he has here. How low can you go in the draft before you prefer Drysdale + future Ducks 2 to a 2024 pick?

To me, your answer should be determined by specific players since you can do the trade on the clock. Here's the draft: 2024 NHL Entry Draft Picks at hockeydb.com

Personally, I'm well into the range where I'm confident someone would give me the pick I needed.

 

[blackjackmulligan]

It was a joke (see meme).

If the alternative was Byram straight up, I'll take Drysdale and a high 2nd rd pick.
Drysdale is a bet that he was mishandled in Anaheim (good bet) and that Shaw may be able to fix him (he taught Risto how to play defense).

If it doesn't work out you move on. Like you said, drafting disappointments happen.
It won't make or break the franchise.
Wings and goalies they got, centers and D-men they need.

The legend of Shaw is getting out of hand. Where does it come from? What exactly has done to garner this praise?

One ca say he was mishandled. One can also say he is overhyped and not very good.

 

[deadhead]

What pick do you think they could have gotten for Gauthier?
Montreal certainly didn't think he was worth #5 in 2023, they didn't even make a counter offer.

Maybe #20 (Eiserman)? Doubtful anything in the top 15, I think teams would prefer Buium, Helenius or Luchanko over dealing with Gauthier.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

What pick do you think they could have gotten for Gauthier?
Montreal certainly didn't think he was worth #5, they didn't even make a counter offer.

*Edit* I now see your edit. Thank you.

I find it hard to believe they couldn’t have gotten a pick that lands Eiserman (18-20) since that’s the name you brought up. But I also think that would have been a PR disaster and that does matter to them.

You really don’t think they could have gotten a top 15 pick? Even given the McGroarty return?

 

[freakydallas13]

What pick do you think they could have gotten for Gauthier?
Montreal certainly didn't think he was worth #5 in 2023, they didn't even make a counter offer.

Maybe #20 (Eiserman)? Doubtful anything in the top 15, I think teams would prefer Buium, Helenius or Luchanko over dealing with Gauthier.

You took a question about what you would trade for Drysdale, ignored it, and instead answered a question you posed yourself.

Pretty sure a 20 year old winger who just improved his stock at WJs and is a floor 30 goal guy would get a higher pick than Drysdale and ANA's second btw.

 

[deadhead]

Everyone knows answering a question with a question is rude.

For the record, there are multiple non-lottery picks I don’t even have to think about preferring to Drysdale + future 2 on Draft Day 2024. And yes, I thought so at the time.

Takes two to tango, it's not what you'd prefer, it's what they could actually obtain.

The only names I've heard are Rossi in the summer (after 1 point in 19 games in his rookie cameo) and Byram. I've heard of no team offering a 1st rd pick, just Briere making an offer for Montreal's #5 (probably with a sweetener that hasn't been detailed).

Is Gauthier worth more than Drysdale and a high 2nd? All thing held equal, yes.

But things weren't equal, teams knew the Flyers needed to move Gauthier at some point, and were also wary of him (just b/c you were on the list didn't mean you could trust him to report, if he held up the Flyers, he could change his mind on you). So a substantial discount was almost certain.

 

[freakydallas13]

Takes two to tango, it's not what you'd prefer, it's what they could actually obtain.

Please remember this the next time you tell us about Briere is going to package a bunch of picks to move up in a draft.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

Takes two to tango, it's not what you'd prefer, it's what they could actually obtain.

The only names I've heard are Rossi in the summer (after 1 point in 19 games in his rookie cameo) and Byram. I've heard of no team offering a 1st rd pick, just Briere making an offer for Montreal's #5 (probably with a sweetener that hasn't been detailed).

Is Gauthier worth more than Drysdale and a high 2nd? All thing held equal, yes.

But things weren't equal, teams knew the Flyers needed to move Gauthier at some point, and were also wary of him (just b/c you were on the list didn't mean you could trust him to report, if he held up the Flyers, he could change his mind on you). So a substantial discount was almost certain.

No one is talking about NHL players here. That’s not a requirement.

McGroarty just returned the 14th pick in the previous draft who had an excellent D+1. Gauthier was clearly a more highly regarded prospect.

 

[deadhead]

No one is talking about NHL players here. That’s not a requirement.

McGroarty just returned the 14th pick in the previous draft who had an excellent D+1. Gauthier was clearly a more highly regarded prospect.

McGroaty is considered the better player.

Nor was Drysdale considered "chopped liver" when the trade was made:

Wheeler: Drysdale can certainly help in the short, medium and long term though. With his mobility and head for the game, he’s going to be an impact guy if he can stay healthy. Make good on that second-rounder and there’s an outcome in which Flyers fans feel good about this all things considered, even if Gauthier becomes an important piece with the Ducks.

This is what Wheeler said before the draft:

It feels unjust to have Drysdale, who is better than last year’s top defenseman (Bowen Byram, fourth overall in 2019 to the Avalanche) at the same age, ranked eighth here. He’s the best defenseman in the draft by a wide margin and that will mean that he (rightfully so) gets picked higher than this. I wouldn’t fault a team for taking him at No. 3. He’s that good. Drysdale is one of the smoothest-skating draft-eligible defensemen in recent memory (right up there with Quinn Hughes), with light, almost-floating edge work and perfect balance through his core when he’s on his toes or his heals, moving in any direction. He will make a great skating coach when his career is over — and he’ll be a model for others in the meantime. He’s also extremely poised with the puck on his stick, which helps him evade pressure, create exits and entries with his feet, or attack off of the blue line to use his dangerous wrist shot (his slapshot could use some work and some more strength). Because of his four-way mobility, he’s also an excellent rush defender who can play tight gaps and rarely gets beat in motion. He also reads the play quickly with and without the puck, which helps with his defensive reads and his passing (both on stretch passes and through seams in the offensive zone). He might lack the length and power we see in most No. 1 defensemen but I wouldn’t rule that out for his upside.

Drysdale had a lot of injury issues and was definitely rushed to the NHL.
Sometimes a player is damaged goods, sometimes he just needs a change of scenery.
We'll know if this was a good move by April, as frustrating as Drysdale is right now, it's obvious he's was poorly handled by Anaheim.
And yes, Shaw is a damn good coach, Risto, Seeler, York, Sanheim, all have improved substantially.

 

[Tripod]

We all know why they traded for Drysdale.

RHD
Murray
Wanted to ADD a Dman to the lineup at the time of the trade.

 

[deadhead]

We all know why they traded for Drysdale.

RHD
Murray
Wanted to ADD a Dman to the lineup at the time of the trade.

We also know that no rumor has surfaced of an equivalent, much less better, offer.

 

[Tripod]

If Shaw is a damn good coach, Torts is a great coach, Flahr is great at drafting, Briere is a good GM, and Fletch only made 1 minstake.....why are the Flyers in the 27th spot record wise after missing the playoffs the last 4 years?

Oh yeah...stupid Hextall

 

[JojoTheWhale]

McGroaty is considered the better player.

You said this two weeks ago:

To be fair, in retrospect, looking like a thin draft, D+3 only a few players have played until this season.
#1 Slavkovsky 125g
#2 Nemec 66g
#3 Cooley 87g
#4 Wright 20g
#5 Gauthier 4g
#6 Jiricek 47g
#7 Korchinski 76g
#8 Kasper 1g
#9 Savoie 1g
#10 Mintyukov 66g
#11 Geekie 2g
#12 Mateychuk
#13 Nazar 3g
#14 McGroarty 3g
#54 Piotras 54g

I'd say Mintyukov looks like the best player after #5, Korchinksi, Jiricek and not much else.
Of course, this may change the next couple years, but odds are none will be close to elite.

October 17th, 2024.

Post in thread 'Flyers trade Cutter Gauthier to Anaheim for Jamie Drysdale and 2025 2nd round pick'
Confirmed with Link: - Flyers trade Cutter Gauthier to Anaheim for Jamie Drysdale and 2025 2nd round pick

 

[deadhead]

This is the biggest load of bullshit you’ve ever said.

You said this two weeks ago:



October 17th, 2024.

Post in thread 'Flyers trade Cutter Gauthier to Anaheim for Jamie Drysdale and 2025 2nd round pick'
Confirmed with Link: - Flyers trade Cutter Gauthier to Anaheim for Jamie Drysdale and 2025 2nd round pick

Pittsburgh is trying to win now, McGroaty is already in the NHL, maybe they valued him higher for that reason? Or they just thought he was better.

However, no one has yet to point to ANY rumor of a better or even equivalent offer for Gauthier.
Maybe there was, maybe teams had scuttlebutt that made them wary of Gauthier.
I haven't claimed Drysdale + 2nd is equivalent to Gauthier, rather, that there is no evidence that a better offer was rejected.
And it is unlikely that waiting would have resulted in a better offer, after 8 months, and mounting evidence that Gauthier wasn't a center, why would anyone change their mind?

It's not like Magua thought he was better two years after he was drafted.

 

[trostol]

There is also no evidence there wasn't a better offer

 

[deadhead]

There is also no evidence there wasn't a better offer

No. But saying he should have got a better offer presumes one existed.
A conclusion for which there is zero evidence.

 

[Beef Invictus]

We can also observe that Briere seems to bleed value at a nearly Fletcherian rate, so we can safely assume he didn't extract proper value here either.

 

[deadhead]

We can also observe that Briere seems to bleed value at a nearly Fletcherian rate, so we can safely assume he didn't extract proper value here either.

Really? Like getting a 1st and (2) 2nds and Walker for Provorov and a salary dump (Peterson)?
Or a 1st for Walker (rental) and a salary dump (Johansen)
Compare to the 1st the Rangers got for Skjei.

Exactly where has Briere bleed value?

 

[Beef Invictus]

Really? Like getting a 1st and (2) 2nds and Walker for Provorov and a salary dump (Peterson)?
Or a 1st for Walker (rental) and a salary dump (Johansen)
Compare to the 1st the Rangers got for Skjei.

Exactly where has Briere bleed value?

Yes, we have already discussed how he got poor value for taking Petersen, poor value for taking back the salary dump with Walker, no value for Laughton who peaked, and a straight loss trading for EJ for no reason.

Oh, he also traded a highly touted prospect for Drysdale, another straight up loss at the time given his valuations.


Just like happened with Fletcher, I look forward to you insisting that Briere never loses value while the quality of the asset pool constantly decreases due to his moves.

 

[renberg]

Pittsburgh is trying to win now, McGroaty is already in the NHL, maybe they valued him higher for that reason? Or they just thought he was better.

McGroaty was went down last week.

 

[deadhead]

Yes, we have already discussed how he got poor value for taking Petersen, poor value for taking back the salary dump with Walker, no value for Laughton who peaked, and a straight loss trading for EJ for no reason.

Oh, he also traded a highly touted prospect for Drysdale, another straight up loss at the time given his valuations.


Just like happened with Fletcher, I look forward to you insisting that Briere never loses value while the quality of the asset pool constantly decreases due to his moves.

Show me examples of returns for salary dumps over the last season, not 2-3 years ago when teams were cap constrained?

Dumping Laine cost CBJ a 2nd rd pick, but he has a $8.7Mx2 cap hit.

That's about the only "pure' dump I could find the last year or so, most dumps now are part of deals to balance out cap hits, because with a rising cap teams are no longer desperate to clear cap.

Peterson and Johansen were probably worth a 3rd at most as cap dumps.
With a flat cap, Ghost and Stralman cost a 2nd to dump with similar cap hits.
No one is giving up a 1st to dump salary anymore.