Confirmed with Link: Flyers trade Cutter Gauthier to Anaheim for Jamie Drysdale and 2025 2nd round pick

[GKJ]

(EDIT)

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[GKJ]

Right, the pick is already delayed (and I'm sure they tried for 2024) and the injury concern is legitimate. I just think if that's the best you can get then maybe it is better to stand pat with the player's rights for now.

The CBA is what is it and if he wants to hold out for 4 years then that's his right but the Flyers don't actually have to desperately scramble for the best - or least worst - return right now if they were actually, you know, rebuilding. At the end of the day they drafted a NCAA player and that's always the risk it can play out with no signing unless they change the CBA.

That’s a risk with any player you draft. If they don’t want to be there, they’re not going to sign.

 

[Rebels57]

Not going to justify any of those lineup choices. But again, the point is: it can be true that there are bad lineup decisions and also that the kids are getting plenty of opportunities.

Foerster and Brink are great examples of rookies being given plenty of opportunity —probably more than they’re even fully ready for. Foerster has more ice time than any forward other than Couturier and Konecny. Zamula is getting PP1 opportunity. York is getting tough minutes and plenty of ice time. You just can’t say they’re not getting opportunity.

I honestly think that like 75% of this boils down to Morgan Frost’s treatment in particular. And, honestly, fair enough. Tortorella doesn’t love him as a player, and I wish he did. He’s been jerked around for sure. But all the evidence indicates this is not a systematic issue with playing kids or giving them opportunity.

We’re at the half way point, and I’m very pleasantly surprised by just how much opportunity they’ve gotten. There’s no Laughton experiments in the top six… York has been a mainstay on the top pair (until yesterday). Ristolainen isn’t being jammed in situations that would be better suited for Zamula or York. Tortorella has shown a ton of trust in Foerster, etc. Of course, I’d rather Staal never play and that Atkinson’s time would be minimal, but to be honest, those are small fries compared to how much leash the kids have gotten. And Staal probably is permanently out of the lineup now with Drysdale now, which would be awesome.

EDIT: And just to stay on topic: I think Gauthier would be crazy to look at that and see a team that’s not going to give him an opportunity to develop and be successful.

The problem with Torts is not that he is anti-young player. The problems with Torts are his massive ego, he's stubborn, and he always needs a whipping-boy. He's had one on every team he's coached. They'll even change from season-to-season within the same team.

 

[Starat327]

Not going to justify any of those lineup choices. But again, the point is: it can be true that there are bad lineup decisions and also that the kids are getting plenty of opportunities.

Foerster and Brink are great examples of rookies being given plenty of opportunity —probably more than they’re even fully ready for. Foerster has more ice time than any forward other than Couturier and Konecny. Zamula is getting PP1 opportunity. York is getting tough minutes and plenty of ice time. You just can’t say they’re not getting opportunity.

I honestly think that like 75% of this boils down to Morgan Frost’s treatment in particular. And, honestly, fair enough. Tortorella doesn’t love him as a player, and I wish he did. He’s been jerked around for sure. But all the evidence indicates this is not a systematic issue with playing kids or giving them opportunity.

We’re at the half way point, and I’m very pleasantly surprised by just how much opportunity they’ve gotten. There’s no Laughton experiments in the top six… York has been a mainstay on the top pair (until yesterday). Ristolainen isn’t being jammed in situations that would be better suited for Zamula or York. Tortorella has shown a ton of trust in Foerster, etc. Of course, I’d rather Staal never play and that Atkinson’s time would be minimal, but to be honest, those are small fries compared to how much leash the kids have gotten. And Staal probably is permanently out of the lineup now with Drysdale now, which would be awesome.

EDIT: And just to stay on topic: I think Gauthier would be crazy to look at that and see a team that’s not going to give him an opportunity to develop and be successful.

Fair enough. Like I said, I don't know his actual thought process. A lot of the people getting time this year may be because of - to some degree - Gauthier informing him that he didn't see a path due to last year's usage when he informed them (reportedly), and maybe now it's just too late. I won't pretend I know that to be the case but it's possible.

I couldnt agree more about looking at this team and thinking it's ripe for opportunity, which makes me question if something was said to him that would affect thay opportunity. On paper, he ahoulsve started the season with the team (if thays what's all parties agreed to).

 

[Rebels57]

Just to clarify, it is being reported that Gauthier informed the team of his intentions to not sign after the 2023 IIHF World Hockey Championships, correct? Those took place in May of 2023. That would make sense considering the rumor they shopped him to Montreal for the 5th overall pick in 2023. That draft took place in July.

I've seen some confusion around this because people are conflating the IIHF World Hockey Championships with the World Junior Championships that just passed a few weeks ago.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

Just to clarify, it is being reported that Gauthier informed the team of his intentions to not sign after the 2023 IIHF World Hockey Championships, correct? Those took place in May of 2023. That would make sense considering the rumor they shopped him to Montreal for the 5th overall pick in 2023. That draft took place in July.

I've seen some confusion around this because people are conflating the IIHF World Hockey Championships with the World Junior Championships that just passed a few weeks ago.

That is the correct reported timeline.

The WJC gets mentioned because Briere and Jones went there to talk to try and talk to him.

 

[Rebels57]

That is the correct reported timeline.

The WJC gets mentioned because Briere and Jones went there to talk to try and talk to him.

The timeline then begs the question, what happened between the Draft in July of 2022 and the World Championships in Spring of 2023 to turn him against the Flyers to the point of no return? I wonder if we'll ever know.

There was definitely a lot of drama in the 22-23 season, especially with the Provorov Pride Night fiasco in January of 2023.

 

[Fight4yourRight]

you know why i am going to blame the Flyers more in this than not. The way this was handled. All they had to do was say we made a trade that we think will improve our team, unfortunately, we had to give up Cutter to make that trade but we feel good about getting Drysdale back

but instead through the way they handled it like a jilted ex..they made it about them being jilted

Sorry man, but this is a pretty naive take.

 

[Starat327]

you know why i am going to blame the Flyers more in this than not. The way this was handled. All they had to do was say we made a trade that we think will improve our team, unfortunately, we had to give up Cutter to make that trade but we feel good about getting Drysdale back

but instead through the way they handled it like a jilted ex..they made it about them being jilted

We coulsnt come to terms on an agreement with Cutter and his representatives that met the needs of all parties and therefore felt the need to make a move to protect the Flyers organization.

Then just avoid answering specifics in followup like they did with not making Provorov wear rainbow stuff, or why certain people play, etc.

Thia stuff is honestly so easy and they still find a way to make it look hard.

 

[FLYguy3911]

The timeline then begs the question, what happened between the Draft in July of 2022 and the World Championships in Spring of 2023 to turn him against the Flyers to the point of no return? I wonder if we'll ever know.

There was definitely a lot of drama in the 22-23 season, especially with the Provorov Pride Night fiasco in January of 2023.

Chuck Fletcher getting canned. We'll probably never know but you have to wonder if some promises were made by Fletcher that weren't known or weren't followed through by Briere and the gang. Kinda goes back to the RA (lol) report of "Rookie GM" being one of the reasons he asked to be traded.

 

[Embiid]

The problem with Torts is not that he is anti-young player. The problems with Torts are his massive ego, he's stubborn, and he always needs a whipping-boy. He's had one on every team he's coached. They'll even change from season-to-season within the same team.

He has an authoritarian personality with a chaos is order driven coaching style. Only certain personalities thrive with that style. That was Hitch too. Gagne and Modano said they were able to get beyond his head games and it helped them take the next step in their careers but said he is not for everybody. That is Torts to his capital T. He is not a one size fits all coach. Why it is a bit baffling IMO to have him as the constipated face of your development plan. Authoritarian types are short-lived with their order and structure leadership styles. They ultimately leave ruins in their wake.

 

[GapToothedWonder]

That certainly does seen suspicious af, and in true form to this organisation of the last 20 years. I genuinely hope it's a case of ASF being the moronic dickhead he is trying to fly a rumour out there, but yup. It's not a good look right now.

I get why people are so detached from this franchise, I really do. It's been a trainwreck for so long under 2 or 3 terrible GM's, and even more poor coaching choices.

I think people like yourself need to be aware that those that have shown a little bit of hope under "the new era" are allowed to have that hope until it's proven otherwise. We have all lived through this absolute horseshit for 10 years too, but at the end of the day, the only reason we keep coming back is because there's that little glimmer that things might change.

I'm all on board with calling this franchise out on its bullshit, just like I think the way Torts handles Frost is beyond idiotic. But it does seem that even the positive moves are shit on, or hypothetical situations being held against the team like it's fact (e.g. trading players before we get into the deadline window)

If you want to come into an enclave of pretty pissed off fans that hold no hope for the future and defend an organization based on nothing besides blind hope based on them shuffling some deckchairs you are more then welcome too. But you shouldn't expect to do it without push back or to find many people that feel the way you do. You're entitled to your opinion and the people here are entitled to respond as they like.

Like wise people are allowed to dump on an organization that has been a rudderless mess for over a decade. Even if it's things you think are good people are still allowed to dump on them.

You can't control how others here feel about the team the same way I can't control you feeling hope for whatever reason. If the opinions of the pessimistic are so hard for you to handle then mute those people, the same way I've muted a ton of people that blindly defend the organization (not saying you're doing that)

 

[mja]

We coulsnt come to terms on an agreement with Cutter and his representatives that met the needs of all parties and therefore felt the need to make a move to protect the Flyers organization.

Then just avoid answering specifics in followup like they did with not making Provorov wear rainbow stuff, or why certain people play, etc.

Thia stuff is honestly so easy and they still find a way to make it look hard.

It's standard operating procedure. The more you wade into the muck, the dirtier you get. So instead you give a bland but dignified answer that shows that you're pros who know how to handle business, weather what will be a very brief storm, and then move on with the rest of your lives. Basic competence, which would be a little reassuring.

Instead, this organization turns minor setbacks into full-blown catastrophes replete with acrimony and finger-pointing.

 

[Rebels57]

Chuck Fletcher getting canned. We'll probably never know but you have to wonder if some promises were made by Fletcher that weren't known or weren't followed through by Briere and the gang. Kinda goes back to the RA (lol) report of "Rookie GM" being one of the reasons he asked to be traded.

Yeah Fletcher was canned in March of 2023, just before the WC. Hayes trade was in June, just after.

 

[usahockey22flyers]

The timeline then begs the question, what happened between the Draft in July of 2022 and the World Championships in Spring of 2023 to turn him against the Flyers to the point of no return? I wonder if we'll ever know.

There was definitely a lot of drama in the 22-23 season, especially with the Provorov Pride Night fiasco in January of 2023.

We need to know what was said when Cutter’s season ended in March 2023 and they met - and Cutter asked to sign - and Cutter was told he couldn’t sign right now

Did he express disappointment? Did he not want to go to the AHL?

 

[sregdoor]

Does this thread need the same leads at the the top of every page. You could 1/3 less pages.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

The timeline then begs the question, what happened between the Draft in July of 2022 and the World Championships in Spring of 2023 to turn him against the Flyers to the point of no return? I wonder if we'll ever know.

There was definitely a lot of drama in the 22-23 season, especially with the Provorov Pride Night fiasco in January of 2023.

Could be anything. There’s obviously not a lack of possibilities with this franchise lately. Friedman’s thing about him signing after his freshman year lines up with timeline but who knows.

“It wasn’t one specific reason why I asked for a trade,” said Gauthier. “It was multiple, re-occurring issues that I’d seen over the past year and a half, two years of being under the Flyers organization.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

Does this thread need the same leads at the the top of every page. You could 1/3 less pages.

I can add more if you want.

 

[Curufinwe]

No, he wanted to play 10 NHL games and burn the first year of his ELC.

 

[Embiid]

Could be anything. There’s obviously not a lack of possibilities with this franchise lately. Friedman’s thing about him signing after his freshman year lines up with timeline but who knows.

“It wasn’t one specific reason why I asked for a trade,” said Gauthier. “It was multiple, re-occurring issues that I’d seen over the past year and a half, two years of being under the Flyers organization.

Flyers "organization? " It's been disorganization in those years and prior...

 

[VladDrag]

Again, the contortion is not the grievances, which are mostly valid. It’s shoehorning those grievances into the Gauthier situation and assuming that they were major factors & would be materially different for Gauthier in Anaheim.

So I came in halfway through a conversation that was going back and forth multiple times...After going back and reading a bit more of the exchange, I get what you're saying.

Brink, Foerster, and Frost are not comparable situations to Zegras, MacTavish, and Gauthier. You can argue all day about Frost’s treatment, and I won’t disagree with you all that much about it, but to argue that they’re not getting opportunity is patently absurd. Foerster and Frost are third and fourth in PPTOI/GP on the Flyers, respectively. Brink is seventh. Laughton is 10th among forwards. And this is a team with Couturier, Konecny, Atkinson, Tippet, and Farabee all vying for PP time as well. I would say the kids actually are getting a good bit of PP opportunity! And so far, it hasn’t had great results! Not necessarily their fault, of course, but what do you want the PPTOI to look like? What would constitute “opportunity” to you?

For clarity here, my point is that opportunities are not presented equally or in a logical sense for specific player development, which in my mind should be priority number 1 in a rebuild.

Using icetime as an indicator for opportunity for development can be misleading. You need to look at deployment in total. For example, last year, they put Frost in the bumper and net front roles for the majority of his PP time. Sure he got plenty of time, but none of that ice time provided developmental value. Fast forward to this year, and he's one of the best pp performing forwards on the team and he's been primarily placed on the half wall.

Also, I don't think you can give the team credit for playing young players when that's the only choice they really had. 11 or 2 skaters on this team are 24 and under. Only 2 of their top 6 players are older than 24, so ice time is going to be given to younger skaters naturally. It's also not an attack, on the Flyers, it's just the way it is.

Based on many of the Sites to which I sub, the best PP performing forwards on the team are Couts, Brink, and Frost in that order (these are the only players who provide greater value relative to a replacement player). I would also agree with that based on my eye test. Atkinson, Tippett, Farabee and TK have never been good PP players throughout their career, and they aren't that good this season (Farabee and TK particularly are awful this season). Brink being 7th on the list isn't great for either his development or the team chances for success. And last night, Laughton was on the PP and Brink was not, although admittedly that's probably a short term thing not a long term thing.

If I was in charge of the PP, I would have Drysdale up top, Brink and Frost on the left and right walls, Couts and Forster or TK. And, like the Flyers used to do with Giroux/Voracek/Ghost, I would deploy this unit for about 60-75% (1:15 of each 2min pp) of the time, because the rest of the team hasn't provided enough for me. Not only are you developing players in this sense, but you're gonna get the best results as well.

And more to the point in the context of Gauthier, he’s simply not comparable to any of Frost, Foerster, or Brink. The Flyers haven’t had a forward prospect with that pedigree since Nolan Patrick, and he got every last chance to make an impact. To look at those guys — secondary scoring forwards — and extrapolate to Gauthier is just completely contrived. That’s the contortion I’m referring to. If anything, the opportunity they are getting speaks to the fact that Gauthier would have been locked into PP1 on the right wall from day 1, and likely getting top six minutes off the bat. Tortorella isn’t shying away from giving kids opportunities. There’s just a lot of them. That’s not to say some decisions aren’t baffling, but the opportunity is 100% there for all of them to make an impact.

We certainly disagree with Gauthier's level of prospect, but that's okay. I can agree with you that the Flyers held him in high regard. I believe he would have been given lots of opportunity (much more than others).

I'll just end with what I said earlier. It's not like Torts has many choices. He has to play younger players, because that's the construction of the roster. And, he's certainly giving some of the younger players great opportunity, and some of the other ones, he's not. He's very selective on who he puts in situations to succeed.

 

[Starat327]

It's standard operating procedure. The more you wade into the muck, the dirtier you get. So instead you give a bland but dignified answer that shows that you're pros who know how to handle business, weather what will be a very brief storm, and then move on with the rest of your lives. Basic competence, which would be a little reassuring.

Instead, this organization turns minor setbacks into full-blown catastrophes replete with acrimony and finger-pointing.

Exactly. You'd have a hard time convincing me it's not purposeful to just drive site traffic/interactions, but for all the clamoring about the dignified nature and heritage of hockey....

 

[freakydallas13]

It’s almost two full years of age difference without significant progress. Plus a wildly different contract dynamic. Hand-waving that is a fool’s errand.

That’s not to say he can’t recover. Nor am I the biggest Gauthier fan. We’re just talking about the probability.

Not to mention "who needs Gauthier when we have Barkey". That gave me a good laugh.

 

[Gregor Samsa]

Just imagine the return we would have got if Chuck was still running the show

 

[tinycars]

Maybe both sides are at fault here instead of one or the other.

I am just looking forward to seeing if we now have a good defenseman because that's 1/3 of what it takes to be a good team.

 

[Danko]

Just imagine the return we would have got if Chuck was still running the show

he could use his app to tell him the proper value tho