Confirmed with Link: Flyers trade Cutter Gauthier to Anaheim for Jamie Drysdale and 2025 2nd round pick

[GKJ]

(EDIT)

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[Matti Mich]

Do you think that the multiple things that happened were related to young players being sat multiple times over the course of the past couple seasons?

 

[bennysflyers16]

The more he talks, the more it sounds like he just won't actually reveal what the "things" that happened were to cause him to quit on the Flyers. Probably because they are petty and will make him look worse.

Maybe he reads HF Boards and didn't like @Beef Invictus constantly doubting if his goal-scoring will translate?

Ya he def has had some coaching on how to approach this. ( Not helping him across the broad coverage of NHL )

Anyhow, he's the Ducks problem now. Watch him not sign with them either

 

[Beef Invictus]

The more he talks, the more it sounds like he just won't actually reveal what the "things" that happened were to cause him to quit on the Flyers. Probably because they are petty and will make him look worse.

Maybe he reads HF Boards and didn't like @Beef Invictus constantly doubting if his goal-scoring will translate?

Then he was premature. I'm very positive now.

 

[Curufinwe]

Ya he def has had some coaching on how to approach this. ( Not helping him across the broad coverage of NHL )

Anyhow, he's the Ducks problem now. Watch him not sign with them either

This is authentic-style cope.

 

[Embiid]

Then he was premature. I'm very positive now.

Bobby Clarke.....Go!

 

[Pet Charles]

I'm hoping a good reporter will try to ask the following questions:

To Chuck Fletcher: "Was CG under the impression that he would be signed to a contract when his BC ended?" Follow-up with "How much was Danny Briere involved with those discussions?"

To DB: Same first question. If he answers something other than "I have no idea" - which would be telling, ask "When did you start talking contract with him?" DB said that CG was told they'd have to wait due to cap overages, but it's not clear when that occurred.

To Gauthier: Did Chuck Fletcher tell you he'd sign you to a contract after your college season ended? Was DB a part of those discussions?

We know they had no cap room last March. Fletcher whiffed on moving at least $3.5M (50%) of JVR's cap hit. Briere said that the overage was a concern that led to them delaying his first contract. As it is, they're paying a $1.2M overage this year for last year's exceedances.

 

[Rebels57]

Do you think that the multiple things that happened were related to young players being sat multiple times over the course of the past couple seasons?

Considering the fanbases of just about all 32 teams complain about that, I would hope not. Zegras even went through it with Gauthier's new team.

 

[Redpath]

Or when they didn’t do it in March, he decided to go back.

There is also the question of what "I want to go back to college" actually meant for him in March:

- "I want to go back to college, and truthfully do want to sign with the Flyers after my sophomore season," before something changing his mind over the next two months

- "I want to go back to college because I have privately decided I won't sign with the Flyers, I'm just not ready to tell the GM so yet"

Impossible to say right now what is a smokescreen and what is not. Maybe his change of heart came between March and May, maybe it was already set before Chuck was even fired.

 

[Random Forest]

But surely you understand that not every opportunity is equal. Sure, you can say look, Frost is getting games, Brink, Foerster, they are all getting games and time, but it doesn't mean that their development is prioritized.

Last year, the GM had to tell the coach to play Frost with offensive players because he refused to. This is when they didn't have a 1C. When he finally did, Frost went on a 60 point pace over the last 50 games. Then, 2 games into the season this year, he was benched for 2 or 3 straight weeks. It got so unusual that the national media picked up on it (You think Cutter saw that?). Anytime the team isn't playing well, Frost is the one who gets benched. And yet, his underlying metrics are phenomenal; he's tilting the ice in the flyers favor every time he steps on the ice. I do recognize he's underperforming in the raw points totals and I would love for him to have 4 or 5 more points right now because I think he's capable of it, but still he's proven that he's a legitimate NHL center with top-6 upside.

Bobby Brink, who has been very good offensively, is getting put on the 4th line. Scott Laughton is currently seeing power play time over Brink, an area where Brink has shined his entire career. His average icetime has dropped somewhat consistently from about 15 to about 13 min/game.

I could continue (and have in other threads), but I'll just stop there.

My point being that these are not contorted circumstances. These are real grievances. Development isn't just put them out there, and if they are good enough, they will succeed. It's about putting them in a position to be successful.

Again, the contortion is not the grievances, which are mostly valid. It’s shoehorning those grievances into the Gauthier situation and assuming that they were major factors & would be materially different for Gauthier in Anaheim.

Brink, Foerster, and Frost are not comparable situations to Zegras, MacTavish, and Gauthier. You can argue all day about Frost’s treatment, and I won’t disagree with you all that much about it, but to argue that they’re not getting opportunity is patently absurd. Foerster and Frost are third and fourth in PPTOI/GP on the Flyers, respectively. Brink is seventh. Laughton is 10th among forwards. And this is a team with Couturier, Konecny, Atkinson, Tippet, and Farabee all vying for PP time as well. I would say the kids actually are getting a good bit of PP opportunity! And so far, it hasn’t had great results! Not necessarily their fault, of course, but what do you want the PPTOI to look like? What would constitute “opportunity” to you?

Frost’s treatment early in the year is a legitimate grievance. But he’s also had plenty of opportunity, and he appears to actually be doing pretty well with it now. These things are not mutually exclusive.

And more to the point in the context of Gauthier, he’s simply not comparable to any of Frost, Foerster, or Brink. The Flyers haven’t had a forward prospect with that pedigree since Nolan Patrick, and he got every last chance to make an impact. To look at those guys — secondary scoring forwards — and extrapolate to Gauthier is just completely contrived. That’s the contortion I’m referring to. If anything, the opportunity they are getting speaks to the fact that Gauthier would have been locked into PP1 on the right wall from day 1, and likely getting top six minutes off the bat. Tortorella isn’t shying away from giving kids opportunities. There’s just a lot of them. That’s not to say some decisions aren’t baffling, but the opportunity is 100% there for all of them to make an impact.

 

[Larry44]

If he is that butt hurt over money then just call his bluff and tell him he can sign - for money - or spend the next 2.5 years in college with no money. If he is that extremely bitter to turn down that money then so be it and wash your hands of the head case. The Flyers would still get the compensatory 2nd in that instance. No Ellis 2.0 though but that damaged goods doesn't really move the needle for me since he wont actually be here to help.

Disagree. You cut off your nose to spite your face. Getting a compensatory 2nd pick in 2027 (he won't be UFA until Aug 15 2026) is not as good as getting a 21 yr old #6OA mobile RHDman now AND a 2nd pick in '25. I'm not sure what happens if he quits college. Anyone know?

 

[thedjpd]

Considering the fanbases of just about all 32 teams complain about that, I would hope not. Zegras even went through it with Gauthier's new team.

And Zegras is struggling the same way Frost is under a team that is in tank mode.

 

[trostol]

you know why i am going to blame the Flyers more in this than not. The way this was handled. All they had to do was say we made a trade that we think will improve our team, unfortunately, we had to give up Cutter to make that trade but we feel good about getting Drysdale back

but instead through the way they handled it like a jilted ex..they made it about them being jilted

 

[Beef Invictus]

Bobby Clarke.....Go!

"Foundational Titan"

That is what they say

 

[thedjpd]

you know why i am going to blame the Flyers more in this than not. The way this was handled. All they had to do was say we made a trade that we think will improve our team, unfortunately, we had to give up Cutter to make that trade but we feel good about getting Drysdale back

but instead through the way they handled it like a jilted ex..they made it about them being jilted

Disagree.

The vitriol they would have faced from this fanbase in particular if they did not indicate that Gauthier was not willing to sign would have been 10x worse.

There would be picket lines of "we demand an explanation!"

As a corporate entity, they compiled their message, and universally distributed it across the media. And nobody in the entire hockey world is blaming the Flyers considering the situation, so I'd say whatever they agreed on was a master stroke, whether we agree with it or not.

My personal opinion on their message doesn't matter too much but I can only imagine what/how Fletcher would have handled this and that almost brings me to tears.

 

[Starat327]

But surely you understand that not every opportunity is equal. Sure, you can say look, Frost is getting games, Brink, Foerster, they are all getting games and time, but it doesn't mean that their development is prioritized.

Last year, the GM had to tell the coach to play Frost with offensive players because he refused to. This is when they didn't have a 1C. When he finally did, Frost went on a 60 point pace over the last 50 games. Then, 2 games into the season this year, he was benched for 2 or 3 straight weeks. It got so unusual that the national media picked up on it (You think Cutter saw that?). Anytime the team isn't playing well, Frost is the one who gets benched. And yet, his underlying metrics are phenomenal; he's tilting the ice in the flyers favor every time he steps on the ice. I do recognize he's underperforming in the raw points totals and I would love for him to have 4 or 5 more points right now because I think he's capable of it, but still he's proven that he's a legitimate NHL center with top-6 upside.

Bobby Brink, who has been very good offensively, is getting put on the 4th line. Scott Laughton is currently seeing power play time over Brink, an area where Brink has shined his entire career. His average icetime has dropped somewhat consistently from about 15 to about 13 min/game.

I could continue (and have in other threads), but I'll just stop there.

My point being that these are not contorted circumstances. These are real grievances. Development isn't just put them out there, and if they are good enough, they will succeed. It's about putting them in a position to be successful.

I'll spare ypu another long winded response, @Random Forest

I understand what you're saying and can appreciate the difference. But even with no centers of note in the pipeline, the team wouldn't play Frost. Steel played, he just didn't develop. That's the meaningful difference. The Flyers were barely giving opportunities

 

[Rebels57]

And Zegras is struggling the same way Frost is under a team that is in tank mode.

The scuttlebutt is that Zegras is likely to be traded. Not any time soon since he is injured, but a trade over the summer wouldn't be surprising.

you know why i am going to blame the Flyers more in this than not. The way this was handled. All they had to do was say we made a trade that we think will improve our team, unfortunately, we had to give up Cutter to make that trade but we feel good about getting Drysdale back

but instead through the way they handled it like a jilted ex..they made it about them being jilted

This is insane. There's no way they could have sold this particular trade to the fanbase without telling us why. It's not like he was moved in a package for a proven star player where you can get away with an excuse like that.

 

[Random Forest]

I'll spare ypu another long winded response, @Random Forest

I understand what you're saying and can appreciate the difference. But even with no centers of note in the pipeline, the team wouldn't play Frost. Steel played, he just didn't develop. That's the meaningful difference. The Flyers were barely giving opportunities

I hear you, and agree that I’d like Frost to never come out of the lineup. Where we differ is “barely giving opportunities”. The middle six is all tightly packed in terms of ice time. Foerster is getting *plenty* of opportunity (third in both EVTOI/GP and PPTOI/GP). Frost is getting plenty of PP time. Brink has gotten his opportunities too, though it’s come down as his play has regressed a bit into the season.

I think if we looked at the TOI distributions before the season started, we’d all be relatively pleased that the kids were playing meaningful minutes. But it doesn’t seem good enough, mostly because there are a lot of players contending for finite ice time, and less because bad players are getting the opportunities instead (though there is some of that, to be sure).

 

[Rebels57]

I liked what I saw with regards to the chemistry between Sanheim, Drysdale, and Frost on the Powerplay in Game 1. Hopefully that develops into something.

 

[orangey]

Disagree. You cut off your nose to spite your face. Getting a compensatory 2nd pick in 2027 (he won't be UFA until Aug 15 2026) is not as good as getting a 21 yr old #6OA mobile RHDman now AND a 2nd pick in '25. I'm not sure what happens if he quits college. Anyone know?

In that instance of playing hard ball then there would still be a chance he has a change of heart, realizes the damage he is doing to his career, and/or realizes he is passing on millions of earnings and can get a career limiting/ending injury at any time. In other words he could grow up and do what's best for himself like a young adult should.

There is also the chance of working out a trade that involves more than someone else's damaged goods and a 2nd. I just don't value it as much as Briere since the team is supposed to be rebuilding anyway and should have plenty of good picks and (healthy) prospects if they do it right (or at least moderately competently). Getting a NHL player now is more of their typical quick fix patchwork than rebuilding for real. Just like being capped out while 'rebuilding' is a joke. They aren't doing it right and this is another symptom of that problem.

 

[Rebels57]

In that instance of playing hard ball then there would still be a chance he has a change of heart, realizes the damage he is doing to his career, and/or realizes he is passing on millions of earnings and can get a career limiting/ending injury at any time. In other words he could grow up and do what's best for himself like a young adult should.

There is also the chance of working out a trade that involves more than someone else damaged goods and a 2nd. I just don't value it as much as Briere since the team is supposed to be rebuilding anyway and should have plenty of good picks and (healthy) prospects if they do it right (or at least moderately competently). Getting a NHL player now is more of their typical quick fix patchwork than rebuilding for real. Just like being capped out while 'rebuilding' is a joke. They aren't doing it right and this is another symptom of that problem.

Drysdale is 21 years old. It's really not a problem that he's an NHL player now. He's not even going to be in the first year of his prime yet when Michkov comes over in 2026.

The injuries concerns are legitimate. Only time will tell there.

I do wish the 2nd was in 2024 since it's going to be damn near a 1st with how terrible Anaheim is. They'll stink again next year, but who knows how badly.

 

[Embiid]

I liked what I saw with regards to the chemistry between Sanheim, Drysdale, and Frost on the Powerplay in Game 1. Hopefully that develops into something.

As long as teams don't "figure them out" and scheme against it. Always that initial inertia when a new player is added to the mix but they are skilled enough to have longer term success..one can only hope.

 

[Starat327]

I hear you, and agree that I’d like Frost to never come out of the lineup. Where we differ is “barely giving opportunities”. The middle six is all tightly packed in terms of ice time. Foerster is getting *plenty* of opportunity (third in both EVTOI/GP and PPTOI/GP). Frost is getting plenty of PP time. Brink has gotten his opportunities too, though it’s come down as his play has regressed a bit into the season.

I think if we looked at the TOI distributions before the season started, we’d all be relatively pleased that the kids were playing meaningful minutes. But it doesn’t seem good enough, mostly because there are a lot of players contending for finite ice time, and less because bad players are getting the opportunities instead (though there is some of that, to be sure).

Frost is getting opportunity now. But the opportunity had to be forced last yesr when it sounds like this decision was made. Things may be better now - I admittedly haven't bothered to look, but this organization has a pretty long history of overcooking prospects or not giving them the looks.

Why is/wS Staal playing over Zamula?
Why was the corpse of Yandle played instead of a young kid (milestones)
Why did Torta have to be forced to play Frost when they were short natural centers?
Why is Deslauriers even dressed?
Why is sanheim playing behind less skilled players on the PP for as long as he has(or had if he has PP time this year).

I know you're saying this is me just confirming me anti management bias but the fact of the matter is that there is a very serious trend of questionable lineup decisions that don't skew towards opportunity for youngsters.

 

[orangey]

Drysdale is 21 years old. It's really not a problem that he's an NHL player now. He's not even going to be in the first year of his prime yet when Michkov comes over in 2026.

The injuries concerns are legitimate. Only time will tell there.

I do wish the 2nd was in 2024 since it's going to be damn near a 1st with how terrible Anaheim is. They'll stink again next year, but who knows how badly.

Right, the pick is already delayed (and I'm sure they tried for 2024) and the injury concern is legitimate. I just think if that's the best you can get then maybe it is better to stand pat with the player's rights for now.

The CBA is what is it and if he wants to hold out for 4 years then that's his right but the Flyers don't actually have to desperately scramble for the best - or least worst - return right now if they were actually, you know, rebuilding. At the end of the day they drafted a NCAA player and that's always the risk it can play out with no signing unless they change the CBA.

 

[Rebels57]

Right, the pick is already delayed (and I'm sure they tried for 2024) and the injury concern is legitimate. I just think if that's the best you can get then maybe it is better to stand pat with the player's rights.

The CBA is what is it and if he wants to hold out for 4 years then that's his right but the Flyers don't actually have to desperately scramble for the best - or least worst - return right now if they were actually, you know, rebuilding. At the end of the day they drafted a NCAA player and that's always the risk it can play out with no signing unless they change the CBA.

The problem there is, not signing him after his current season would cause immediate speculation that something is wrong. A 5th overall pick that is playing well in College NOT signing after his 2nd season there would immediately raise the alarms league wide. It wouldn't take long before it got out that he didn't want to be a Flyer, and then his value would begin to go down. They explained why they felt now, right after the WJC, was the best time to trade him and I can't find fault in that.

Whether you like the return or not is up for debate, but the return they got is most definitely better than a 2027 compensatory 2nd round pick.

 

[Random Forest]

Frost is getting opportunity now. But the opportunity had to be forced last yesr when it sounds like this decision was made. Things may be better now - I admittedly haven't bothered to look, but this organization has a pretty long history of overcooking prospects or not giving them the looks.

Why is/wS Staal playing over Zamula?
Why was the corpse of Yandle played instead of a young kid (milestones)
Why did Torta have to be forced to play Frost when they were short natural centers?
Why is Deslauriers even dressed?
Why is sanheim playing behind less skilled players on the PP for as long as he has(or had if he has PP time this year).

I know you're saying this is me just confirming me anti management bias but the fact of the matter is that there is a very serious trend of questionable lineup decisions that don't skew towards opportunity for youngsters.

Not going to justify any of those lineup choices. But again, the point is: it can be true that there are bad lineup decisions and also that the kids are getting plenty of opportunities.

Foerster and Brink are great examples of rookies being given plenty of opportunity —probably more than they’re even fully ready for. Foerster has more ice time than any forward other than Couturier and Konecny. Zamula is getting PP1 opportunity. York is getting tough minutes and plenty of ice time. You just can’t say they’re not getting opportunity.

I honestly think that like 75% of this boils down to Morgan Frost’s treatment in particular. And, honestly, fair enough. Tortorella doesn’t love him as a player, and I wish he did. He’s been jerked around for sure. But all the evidence indicates this is not a systematic issue with playing kids or giving them opportunity.

We’re at the half way point, and I’m very pleasantly surprised by just how much opportunity they’ve gotten. There’s no Laughton experiments in the top six… York has been a mainstay on the top pair (until yesterday). Ristolainen isn’t being jammed in situations that would be better suited for Zamula or York. Tortorella has shown a ton of trust in Foerster, etc. Of course, I’d rather Staal never play and that Atkinson’s time would be minimal, but to be honest, those are small fries compared to how much leash the kids have gotten. And Staal probably is permanently out of the lineup now with Drysdale now, which would be awesome.

EDIT: And just to stay on topic: I think Gauthier would be crazy to look at that and see a team that’s not going to give him an opportunity to develop and be successful.