Confirmed with Link: Flyers trade Cutter Gauthier to Anaheim for Jamie Drysdale and 2025 2nd round pick

[MayonnaiseOreo]

Don't you think that there's a chance that Briere saying that they never gave a reason is just GM speak?

Gauthier's representatives have also said that they talked to the Flyers at least in December in Colorado and in Sweden. You combine that with the fact that they've talked about the trade scenarios for months now. It wasn't radio silence.

Talking to the Flyers in December and Sweden also could've been them saying "Cutter doesn't want to speak to you" or "nothing has changed. Bye." That's not technically radio silence but it's also not opening any negotiations nor telling the Flyers why Cutter doesn't want to play for them.

Both parties are going to try making themselves look as good as possible in the situation and none of us on this message board know for sure what the exact truth is. Everything is conjecture and it's silly for anyone to pin the blame 100% on Briere/the Flyers or Cutter.

 

[Jettany]

No, we’re thrilled. Gauthier was overrated as hell.

He’s the Jalen Hurts of the NHL.

I’m not so sure but at this point I hope you’re right! Would be nice if Drysdale is a bonafide top pairing player. Not sure he’s a #1. Time will tell.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

Talking to the Flyers in December and Sweden also could've been them saying "Cutter doesn't want to speak to you" or "nothing has changed. Bye." That's not technically radio silence but it's also not opening any negotiations nor telling the Flyers why Cutter doesn't want to play for them.

Both parties are going to try making themselves look as good as possible in the situation and none of us on this message board know for sure what the exact truth is. Everything is conjecture and it's silly for anyone to pin the blame 100% on Briere/the Flyers or Cutter.

Briere said that they refused to talk to them though. That's a major talking point going on here and a major reason that Gauthier is being labeled as "immature or classless" and yet there's evidence to the contrary.

His representatives saying that he doesn't want to speak to them or nothing has changed is still talking to them. It's just that the Flyers didn't hear what they wanted to hear.

The most logical thing is that Briere knows what the reason is but he can't say it publicly because there's nothing to gain from that for any party involved so instead he goes with the "we never heard why."

It's too far fetched for me to believe that the reason was never relayed to the Flyers.

 

[Starat327]

I don’t see many people saying that he doesn’t have the right to pursue what he believes is in his self-interest. He’s absolutely entitled to do that, for whatever reason he chooses.

Maybe he really did look at the organization and say “I want no part of that steaming pile of shit”. But how much better is the Ducks org? Fresh off a last-in-the-NHL season, they haven’t made the playoffs since 2017-18. I’m sure they’ll be pretty good in a few years, but it’s hard to look at this and say “Gauthier only wanted to go to an organization that he had confidence in” or “Gauthier wanted to go to an organization that would maximize his value”. The reasons just seem much more arbitrary than that.

Which, again, is totally fine! I’m not demanding Gauthier have a good reason. It’s just that spinning this into a grievance with the Flyers reaping the rewards of some unique organizational dysfunction seems like contorting the circumstances to fit your personal despair as a Flyers fan.

In sum:

1. Gauthier adamantly didn’t want to be a Flyer.
2. That’s OK.
3. That’s also a bit strange. Perhaps justifiable, but definitely strange.


The odd breakdown communication is also an ancillary factor, with perhaps blame lying with both parties. But IMO, predominantly with the side forcing the issue.

So there's definitely a lot of people saying he was drafted, he owes the Flyers, etc.

Re: the ducks -- he has no control over that. He has no trade protection, so the Flyers can dump him anywhere they want. Now, I would imagine the ducks had a conversation with him beforehand to make sure they were on the same page. Otherwise, they're just dumb. On ice the ducks are maybe worse, but they actually play kids, and put them in positions to succeed. Again, I dont know his motivations, but if he was worried about opportunity, it would be fair to look at the ducks and see the time they've given their top prospects versus the Flyers who are still yo-yoing a prospect drafted 7 years ago.

I dont know who is to blame. I imagine both sides could've handled this better. We sont know what happens and it's all heresay from twitter reporters, so it's grain of salt. But what isn't heresay is a Flyers affiliate making wild claims and stirring shit up, sending their top executive to that podcast and endorsing it, etc, which is whipping fans into a frenzy for no reason.

 

[JABEE]

Gauthier was loyal to Chuck. Fired in a disgraceful manner lol

 

[Starat327]

Talking to the Flyers in December and Sweden also could've been them saying "Cutter doesn't want to speak to you" or "nothing has changed. Bye." That's not technically radio silence but it's also not opening any negotiations nor telling the Flyers why Cutter doesn't want to play for them.

Both parties are going to try making themselves look as good as possible in the situation and none of us on this message board know for sure what the exact truth is. Everything is conjecture and it's silly for anyone to pin the blame 100% on Briere/the Flyers or Cutter.

And what's wrong with this? If the kid doesn't believe this is the right place for him or his development, or whatever reason he has, he's under no obligation to change his mind.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

Gauthier was loyal to Chuck. Fired in a disgraceful manner lol

Don't forget Camillo!

They had a whole line of Gritty and Cutter stuffed animals and urinals in the shape of his jawline ready to roll out but when she left it was the final straw!

 

[Striiker]

5) Whilst reading HF Flyers, Cutter learned of the existences of @Lord Defect and @Striiker. Decided he could not be part of an organization in any way affiliated with such defectiveness, and is a firm believer that hot dogs are not sandwiches.

ok so we agree that his skull is completely empty

 

[JABEE]

Does everyone who speculated/reported that it was about Torts scaring Gauthier away have to get the same egg on their face as the vilifier of Hayes ASF?

I understand ASF went too far, but no one in the media really held back blaming this ordeal on some unfounded reason.

 

[Random Forest]

So there's definitely a lot of people saying he was drafted, he owes the Flyers, etc.

Re: the ducks -- he has no control over that. He has no trade protection, so the Flyers can dump him anywhere they want. Now, I would imagine the ducks had a conversation with him beforehand to make sure they were on the same page. Otherwise, they're just dumb. On ice the ducks are maybe worse, but they actually play kids, and put them in positions to succeed. Again, I dont know his motivations, but if he was worried about opportunity, it would be fair to look at the ducks and see the time they've given their top prospects versus the Flyers who are still yo-yoing a prospect drafted 7 years ago.

I dont know who is to blame. I imagine both sides could've handled this better. We sont know what happens and it's all heresay from twitter reporters, so it's grain of salt. But what isn't heresay is a Flyers affiliate making wild claims and stirring shit up, sending their top executive to that podcast and endorsing it, etc, which is whipping fans into a frenzy for no reason.

Those people are wrong. Purely, as a factual matter, they’re wrong. He has the right to rebuff the Flyers, as is proven by his using that right. But it’s also OK to find his thought process baffling, arbitrary, and entitled.

Regarding the Ducks, that just strikes me as what I meant by contorting the circumstances to fit our grievances as Flyers fans. The Flyers are playing plenty of kids. Some frustrating lineup decisions? Sure, but the kids are being given opportunities. It’s just that there are established players like Couturier and Konecny to contend with in the Flyers lineup. But Gauthier has now explicitly said that it had nothing to do with Tortorella, so it strikes me as unlikely that “they play their kids” was the reason.

Again, blaming the Flyers for losing him because they’re some unique dumpster fire is the part that seems fanciful and objectionable. Maybe that really is what he thought, but they weren’t exactly less of a dumpster fire when he was drafted and indicating that he was OK with being a Flyer.

 

[BritainStix]

There's a good chance that the "contact in December" was the flyers informing him he was getting traded to Anaheim no?

Wouldn't that have been right around the WJC?

 

[Starat327]

Those people are wrong. Purely, as a factual matter, they’re wrong. He has the right to rebuff the Flyers, as is proven by his using that right. But it’s also OK to find his thought process baffling, arbitrary, and entitled.

Regarding the Ducks, that just strikes me as what I meant by contorting the circumstances to fit our grievances as Flyers fans. The Flyers are playing plenty of kids. Some frustrating lineup decisions? Sure, but the kids are being given opportunities. It’s just that there are established players like Couturier and Konecny to contend with in the Flyers lineup. But Gauthier has now explicitly said that it had nothing to do with Tortorella, so it strikes me as unlikely that “they play their kids” was the reason.

Again, blaming the Flyers for losing him because they’re some unique dumpster fire is the part that seems fanciful and objectionable. Maybe that really is what he thought, but they weren’t exactly less of a dumpster fire when he was drafted and indicating that he was OK with being a Flyer.

I'm not sure how you can look at the Ducks pathway of players and their time to the NHL vs The Flyers and say that it's not a piece for consideration. In a team starved for centers, Morgan Frost is still being healthy scratched to this day. 21 year old Zegras played 81 games last season. McTavish 80. They were far from perfect but they have an environment that let's them play and doesn't punish them for making a mistake while "vets" get to play like dogs hit consistently and never miss a game.

It's entirely possible that isn't even his reason for not wanting to be here. Maybe he just thinks cheesesteaks and peanut chews are disgusting. But you can't straight faced argue that the Flyers provide developmental opportunities on par with teams like the Ducks.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

There's a good chance that the "contact in December" was the flyers informing him he was getting traded to Anaheim no?

Wouldn't that have been right around the WJC?

They met with them in Colorado in December when the Flyers were in town. They played the Avs on 12/9. They then supposedly met at the WJC in Sweden so it seems a bit redundant to meet in both places if a trade was already worked out but it's possible. For information sake, the WJC started on 12/26 and pre-tournament games happened around a week before that or so.

I'll admit that i'm making an assumption that they met at other times before then. It just seems more realistic to me then absolutely no contact between parties occurring.

It's all a blur now but hasn't it been reported also that Briere and Jones went to Sweden to try and convince him to change is mind by laying out their plan so if a trade was agreed to in Colorado why would they attempt that?

 

[FromOyVey2Matvei]

I do think he owed them an explanation, given that he "seduced" them into drafting him by seeming to be enthusiastic about playing for them, had he expressed reservations, they probably would have taken Jiricek, and he'd have gone #6, which would have cost him nothing (except being drafted by CBJ). This isn't the NFL or NBA or MLB, where draft slots have economic consequences.

So I think what upsets the Flyers I think was the deception, whether deliberate or just impulsive, which screwed with their decision making. And the unwillingness to even talk. There's a certain prima donna aspect to this (well, I thought it over and changed my mind but I won't even do an exit interview because after misleading them, I owe them nothing).

If you actually believe that he didn’t give the Flyers any type of explanation as to why he was upset with them and then less than a month later, without any clue of what the problem(s) were / if they were fixable, the Flyers tried to trade him at the 2023 draft for David Reinbacher, then I can see why you don’t think Chuck Fletcher made any mistakes as GM.

 

[Embiid]

All the hypotheticals, conjecture and innuendo about the circumstances surrounding Cutter the Genetic Clutch phenom not signing with the Flyers is better than Ancient Aliens...I keep hearing that narrator's voice in my head when reading the posts and writing my own

"Could it be that......etc etc"

Lol!

 

[Random Forest]

I'm not sure how you can look at the Ducks pathway of players and their time to the NHL vs The Flyers and say that it's not a piece for consideration. In a team starved for centers, Morgan Frost is still being healthy scratched to this day. 21 year old Zegras played 81 games last season. McTavish 80. They were far from perfect but they have an environment that let's them play and doesn't punish them for making a mistake while "vets" get to play like dogs hit consistently and never miss a game.

It's entirely possible that isn't even his reason for not wanting to be here. Maybe he just thinks cheesesteaks and peanut chews are disgusting. But you can't straight faced argue that the Flyers provide developmental opportunities on par with teams like the Ducks.

Again, you’re doing exactly what I’m describing here — contorting the circumstances to fit our particular grievances as Flyers fans; in this case, Morgan Frost’s treatment in the lineup.

Trevor Zegras (9th overall, 2019) and Mason McTavish (3rd overall, 2021) are totally different players and situations than Morgan Frost (27th overall, 2017). Much, much better players, at that. And they proved it and forced their roles in the Ducks’ lineup right off the bat. Why not cite Sam Steel (30th overall, 2016) who flamed out in Anaheim?

The Flyers afforded every opportunity to their top-of-the-draft prospects (eg, Provorov, Patrick). Konecny hasn’t exactly been put in a position to fail, either. Of course there are frustrations you can point to (valid ones!), but there are plenty of kids getting their opportunities. Notwithstanding the odd lineup decision here and there, Foerster & Brink are not exactly being starved for opportunity. Gauthier almost certainly would have been gifted a major opportunity on the Flyers before proving that he’s earned it (and that would have been the proper decision). Michkov will be too.

 

[MayonnaiseOreo]

And what's wrong with this? If the kid doesn't believe this is the right place for him or his development, or whatever reason he has, he's under no obligation to change his mind.

Nothing inherently wrong with it. What I'm saying is that I wouldn't really call that talking to the Flyers. That's still refusing to talk in my eyes. If they answered the phone and said one sentence and hung up, that's not talking. It's also not outright ignoring the Flyers calls. Nobody knows exactly what was or wasn't said. It doesn't mean that Briere is lying about being able to talk to their camp (properly, having an actual conversation) but it also doesn't mean that the story hasn't been spun to make it sound like Cutter's camp completely ghosted the Flyers either.

Edit: If the Flyers' brass actually physically met in person with Cutter's agent/camp in Colorado and Sweden, then yeah, I have no clue WTF Briere means by not being able to talk to them other than outright lying.

 

[FromOyVey2Matvei]

Don't you think that there's a chance that Briere saying that they never gave a reason is just GM speak?

Gauthier's representatives have also said that they talked to the Flyers at least in December in Colorado and in Sweden. You combine that with the fact that they've talked about the trade scenarios for months now. It wasn't radio silence.

How are people not getting this?

The Flyers are going the “he ghosted us” route to create strong hatred towards Gauthier, so that when the truth is later revealed, nobody cares. The first impression of “Gauthier is an entitled prick” will allow them to shrug off the Flyers culpability in this.

It’s laughable that people could actually believe an organization would have the guy they touted as “the future #1C who would lead the rebuild“ tell them he didn’t want to play for them anymore, give no reasons why and then a month later said team would try to dump him at the draft for David Reinbacher.

They damn well understood his reasons. They knew they were valid and would make the Flyers look bad. So the smug SOBs tried to look for a trade immediately that they could spin as equal value and filling a position of need. If they got that Reinbacher trade done, I bet we wouldn’t have even heard about Gauthier turning them down. It would’ve just been an opportunity that was “too good to pass up”.

It’s only after they failed to find any return that was close to similar value that they tried desperately to change his mind. And when that fell flat, they took what they could and settled on a full court press “smear Cutter’s name” media campaign seconds after the trade was announced.

 

[flyersnorth]

I like Rachel Donner and Russ Cohen with their Locked On podcast. No silly rumors. You never want to kick your dog after listening. I listened to it for awhile and one day realized that Russ Cohen was the Russ who would play on my team in a co-ed softball league at Marconi. The weird part is that he's an uncanny doppelganger in appearance, voice, and temperament for an attorney that I work with. Whenever I'm discussing some legal aspect of a project with the colleague, I have this strong desire to ask about North American forward prospects.

I don't know about Russ Joy. If STG is anything like WIP or the Fanatic, I'll just put a radio on static or let an alarm continually go off, thank you.

Edit: He's not a very good softball player, although he did have shoulder problems. Real nice, unassuming guy though.

I listen to the Locked On podcast and the one with Jason Myrtetus the most. Both of those are straight-ahead, no BS, and focused. 20-30 minutes is the perfect length for me.

STG is mostly just nonsense, though it is occasionally entertaining. PHLY has its moments too.

I don't want to crap on any of them personally, because they all clearly love the Flyers and put in a ton of time creating content for fans. My comment about Russ Joy was more about him as a host, who I do not enjoy. Clearly many fans enjoy him and STG. There is a place for each podcast among the fanbase, and we get to pick what we want to listen to, which is a pretty nice luxury.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

The one thing I think we're really missing in the big picture discussion is that we don't know how these discussions went over time. We operate with bits and pieces and assume people acted logically and/or professionally. That's the team, the agents, and everyone else. I think we all know from personal experience that shouldn't be assumed.

We have no idea whatsoever how the pre-draft discussions were framed. We don't know how this supposed overage disagreement happened. We operate with bits and pieces of info and pretend like it allows us to infer. That's why my entire focus is on how they handled the fallout. That's public.

TLDR; It's ok to recognize that you don't have to have an opinion on everything.

 

[ajgoal]

TLDR; It's ok to recognize that you don't have to have an opinion on everything.

Can I have an opinion on this?

 

[Striiker]

TLDR; It's ok to recognize that you don't have to have an opinion on everything.

What are your thoughts on hot dogs being sandwiches?

 

[SolidSnakeUS]

My feelings on this is that we won't get a straight answer about this for a long time or ever.

And I think that's why while some things are interesting, it also becomes exhausting and we start to tread the same ground we've always done. It sucks that it came down like this, but I am still hopeful that Drysdale will become the offense D-man we've been waiting on.

 

[FromOyVey2Matvei]

If Eliot Friedmann's comments are relevant/cogent, I think Gauthier did not like Briere's and Torts
"process", that you have to earn a spot on the Flyer's roster, plus he probably hated the idea of the Flyers not to expend a year on the ELC and had to play another year at BC.

For me, the kid can rot in hell for all I care, besides, I was never comfortable with him as a Flyer.

Now Barkey is the kind of Flyer I applaud....ahhhh......je ne sais quoi

I don’t give a damn about Cutter Gauthier (unless he becomes an elite goalscorer / all star).

I care more about the Flyers, in the midst of a rebuild that was already looking tenuous, shooting themselves in the foot and losing considerable value in trading one of the most valuable pieces they have for 75 cents on the dollar.

Whether Cutter is a douche with a massive ego rivaled only by Torts own huge ego or not is largely irrelevant to me. What is very relevant is that a front office with more tact and less rigidity in their “process” would’ve successfully signed Cutter and at the very least, been able to preserve more value (because a signed prospect is inherently worth more).

If you feel so strongly that the “Flyer way” and “earning your spot” is important, and you’re put off by his attitude, trade him after you signed him. It’s not hard.

 

[JABEE]

There is really no reason for Gauthier to say why now that he got what he wanted. No need to burn things down when you can just move on