Confirmed with Link: Flyers trade Cutter Gauthier to Anaheim for Jamie Drysdale and 2025 2nd round pick

[GKJ]

(EDIT)

Click to read more...

 

[Beef Invictus]

The one I just made.

What is the point of your point? How come you spend most of your time here complaining about people?

If you think this place is irrational you ought to check out sports discussion elsewhere online.

 

[Starat327]

What is the point of your point? How come you spend most of your time here complaining about people?

If you think this place is irrational you ought to check out sports discussion elsewhere online.

If he thinks this is irrational he should check your food takes in Menu.

 

[Gregor Samsa]

So if you’re GM of any other team in the league, what’s the best pick or prospect you would give up to get Cutter?

 

[Beef Invictus]

If he thinks this is irrational he should check your food takes in Menu.

You know, I didn't drink vinegar until after the Flyers turned Gagne into Matt f***ing Walker and signed Jody Shelley. Hmm.

 

[deadhead]

No, but thats mainly because there draft position has been trash and decisions by Gms and Front Office. In regards to the last 10 years...they had some success drafting:

TK
Provorov
Sanheim
Hart
Foerster
Brink
Farabee
York
Michkov

The amateur scouts don't get the final say, and also they are simply guys sitting in a rink in some random spot in canada, sweden, russia, finland etc...

Scouts have been fine, and they drafted well under Flahr, just that CF basically traded a full top of draft worth of picks in 4 years. Last summers draft was excellent, Michkov showing he was at worst #2, Bonk really coming on the last month, Zavragin destroying the VHL, Barkey, Ciernek, Sotheran. Bjarnason only disappointment so far, even Knuble has bounced back after a slow start. Mann is actually having a decent season.

Even the drafts under CF looking better, Tuomaala from flop to solid prospect, Sulku lighting up Mestis, Gendron, McLaughlin all 7th rd picks, Avon UDFA, York, Brink, Foerster starting, Andrae will at some point this season, Kolosov good chance of playing in the NHL.

Looking at this year's draft, I think moving out CF and some of the senior people has freed organization to focus more on upside instead of safe picks.

 

[gertbfrobe16]

I find it funny that they are still trying to replace ghost.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Scouts have been fine, and they drafted well under Flahr, just that CF basically traded a full top of draft worth of picks in 4 years. Last summers draft was excellent, Michkov showing he was at worst #2, Bonk really coming on the last month, Zavragin destroying the VHL, Barkey, Ciernek, Sotheran. Bjarnason only disappointment so far, even Knuble has bounced back after a slow start. Mann is actually having a decent season.

Even the drafts under CF looking better, Tuomaala from flop to solid prospect, Sulku lighting up Mestis, Gendron, McLaughlin all 7th rd picks, Avon UDFA, York, Brink, Foerster starting, Andrae will at some point this season, Kolosov good chance of playing in the NHL.

Looking at this year's draft, I think moving out CF and some of the senior people has freed organization to focus more on upside instead of safe picks.

What the f***? I repeatedly pointed this out as an error and you constantly downplayed it.


If the Flyers drafted well "under Flahr" then how come they're still outsourcing depth to external acquisitions?

 

[MayonnaiseOreo]

Found this post on the Flyers Reddit. Thought you guys might get a kick out of it.


“
To the doomers:

There are a ton of reasons to still be optimistic. This does not change anything for the following reasons:

A) Michkov is the real cornerstone of this rebuild. As long as he is still in the cards we’re still sitting pretty. He has the upside of being the next Ovechkin for f***s sake.

B) Draft capital. Wahhhhhh we lost Gauthier. f*** that. We have two firsts and two seconds AS OF NOW. We now have the ability to trade Walker and/or Seeler and still have a solid defense. We could realistically end this season with 3 firsts this year and 2 firsts next year. That’s insane.

C) Our current elite pieces. Yeah, Gauthier might have become elite, or maybe he’s the next Nolan Patrick. No way to tell. We currently have elite pieces that we should be excited about. TK, Cam York, either Hart/Errson… we have high caliber players that will be here throughout the rebuild.

D) Free agency is still a thing. Philly is a huge market and with a ton of prospects coming in over the next couple years. These are major attractors to free agents so we should be able to sign a 1C.

E) Drysdale is an absolute menace. Sure, he has an injury history, but if he stays healthy he will be a 1RD. His upside is as high as a top 3 defender in the league. That will be absolutely crucial if this team is serious about the cup in a few years (look at offensive heavy teams like Edmonton).

f*** Gauthier, but if he didn’t want to play here he wasn’t going to benefit this franchise whatsoever. Drysdale is a legit competitor (not a fraud like Quitter Gauthier) and he will be paramount in winning us a cup. I’m hyped as ever for this team.

Go Flyers, f*** the pens.”

I'm not nearly as doomer as most of you in here but good lord. This is why I don't go to the Flyers subreddit. The Kool-Aid drinking is obscene there and I was just talking to someone that thought Kevin Hayes was a special player for the Flyers prior to his brother's passing. Reddit Flyers fans will lap up whatever jock-strap sweat the team drip feeds to them.

 

[Magua]

Even taking Gauthier out of the equation. I don’t even blame them for not taking into account a player would be slighted by not offering a contract there as that is a little odd of a complaint but whatever.

The issue I have with that report if true is they let cap space dictate their hand when this supposed to be a rebuild. What other moves are going to be dictated by cap space going forward if that one was & the team has overachieved this year?

I think Gauthier thinks a little too highly of himself if he is in his feels about not turning pro a year ago, unless he was okay with spending a lot of time in the AHL (doubt it). But clearly the Flyers chose the worst weirdest path, as usual. Maybe they didn't understand how willing Gauthier was to put his foot down. Clearly there was failure to communicate on both parties.

Bonuses rolling over (and how much for a player who might play 5-10 games?) should mean diddly squat for a "rebuilding team" with cap space to spare. They have over $9MM invested in Hayes, DeAngelo, and Petersen this season. They had so many ways to open up a little cap room. They had cap room! They had to use it on players like Hathaway, while keeping Laughton. Whatever I think about Gauthier individually, the Flyers just look incompetent using that as an excuse for a player they view as the 2nd most valuable player in the organization. No one should buy what they're selling.

 

[VladDrag]

Yes, exactly. You didn’t have the context. And yet, had they signed Gauthier last spring, you would have been content in your rage all the same, thinking that it confirmed all your priors about shortchanging the rebuild. And you would have never known the full circumstances of that signing. Thats why so much of the incandescent, blinding rage on here is grating. Everything is viewed through whatever lens confirms those priors.

I have a few legit questions here:
1) At what point is it okay to formulate an opinion? In other words, how much data do you need?
2)I understand your point about 'blinding rage'. But it's not as if the Flyers have been the embodiment of a competent organization. And their history over the last ~10 years hasn't been great. They continue to make mistakes. So, the blinding rage is not like it came from no where. My question is, Do you not see the faults within the organization? Do you not understand where the anger originates?

 

[Random Forest]

What is the point of your point? How come you spend most of your time here complaining about people?

If you think this place is irrational you ought to check out sports discussion elsewhere online.

Do I have to find everything rational to engage with it? Why are you here?

 

[Beef Invictus]

Do I have to find everything rational to engage with it? Why are you here?

Why is anyone here? Why do we exist?

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

I think Gauthier thinks a little too highly of himself if he is in his feels about not turning pro a year ago, unless he was okay with spending a lot of time in the AHL (doubt it). But clearly the Flyers chose the worst weirdest path, as usual. Maybe they didn't understand how willing Gauthier was to put his foot down. Clearly there was failure to communicate on both parties.

Bonuses rolling over (and how much for a player who might play 5-10 games?) should mean diddly squat for a "rebuilding team" with cap space to spare. They have over $9MM invested in Hayes, DeAngelo, and Petersen this season. They had so many ways to open up a little cap room. They had cap room! They had to use it on players like Hathaway, while keeping Laughton. Whatever I think about Gauthier individually, the Flyers just look incompetent using that as an excuse for a player they view as the 2nd most valuable player in the organization. No one should buy what they're selling.

Don’t forget Lindblom!

Although he’s a little more messy here.

 

[wankstifier]

Why is anyone here? Why do we exist?

 

[deadhead]

That’s pretty interesting.

I think Gauthier is a good bet to be a scoring LW, still questions about his dedication to defense.

But scoring wingers are easier to find than top six centers or top defensemen.

 

[VladDrag]

I think Gauthier thinks a little too highly of himself if he is in his feels about not turning pro a year ago, unless he was okay with spending a lot of time in the AHL (doubt it). But clearly the Flyers chose the worst weirdest path, as usual. Maybe they didn't understand how willing Gauthier was to put his foot down. Clearly there was failure to communicate on both parties.

Bonuses rolling over (and how much for a player who might play 5-10 games?) should mean diddly squat for a "rebuilding team" with cap space to spare. They have over $9MM invested in Hayes, DeAngelo, and Petersen this season. They had so many ways to open up a little cap room. They had cap room! They had to use it on players like Hathaway, while keeping Laughton. Whatever I think about Gauthier individually, the Flyers just look incompetent using that as an excuse for a player they view as the 2nd most valuable player in the organization. No one should buy what they're selling.

I have a hard time believing that the Flyers didn't understand the situation. I'm not letting go of Briere using the term 'a few months later,' after the draft and also 'changed his mind again'. The again is key to me here. Did Cutter tell them he didn't want to play for the Flyers after the draft, but the Flyers were able to change his mind? Something tells me that there were other issues apart from the ELC and that was the last straw.

 

[Random Forest]

I have a few legit questions here:
1) At what point is it okay to formulate an opinion? In other words, how much data do you need?
2)I understand your point about 'blinding rage'. But it's not as if the Flyers have been the embodiment of a competent organization. And their history over the last ~10 years hasn't been great. They continue to make mistakes. So, the blinding rage is not like it came from no where. My question is, Do you not see the faults within the organization? Do you not understand where the anger originates?

1. Clearly in this case, the opinion in question — that signing Gauthier in spring 2023 would have been a bad move — would have been a poor judgment based on incomplete information. So maybe more than that?

2. I am obviously no stranger to the plight of being a Flyers fan. I share 100% of that frustration. What I don’t share is the despondent misanthropy. Mostly I’m just in favor of measured analysis of what the hell is going on. I get why this exists — where I find it interesting On Here is that the misanthropy has turned a bunch of otherwise reasonable analysts of the Flyers into blind cynics that think everything is confirmation of their assessment that Everything Is Wrong. Related to point #1, there’s an arrogance in believing that whatever happened must have been the wrong course of action; it’s just as arrogant as blindly affirming everything that transpires.

 

[BillDineen]

My best guess is Gauthier wanted to sign with an assurance he would play center in the NHL right off the bat and the Flyers felt he needed more time at center in college to develop. Then when Gauthier excelled at the World Championship, he convinced himself the Flyers are blind to his talent and decided never to sign.

 

[deadhead]

Can't blame Briere for any of this, he was handed a shitty situation and has worked hard to fix it.

Provorov trade is looking like a stroke of genius, 1st, (2) 2nds, Grans and whatever we get for Walker.

Poehling was a good signing, good 4C, can play PK, could be trade bait or extended to fill 4C until some kids are ready (he's only 25).

Dumping Hayes, TDA, given how they've played (so much for the fantasy that we'd get more value holding on to them and their $12M cap hit).

Making the best of the Gauthier situation, no panic, considered lots of options, got the best deal they could get.

A great draft.

Mistakes were made, should have moved Laughton (though I'll never buy the 1st and 2nd for Laughton rumor, had to be a big salary dump included), Hathaway was an overpay, we'll see if he's moveable (but had to play someone and Allison hasn't done squat in LHV).

Some things take time. Atkinson you hoped would continue scoring and be moveable, now a summer buyout is probably in his future, same with Pederson. Pay $3.5M for two years to dump $10.25M next season to use as trade bait. Risto is now an above average defensive D-man, but might need another year to make his contract moveable.

 

[Jettany]

It should be a foregone conclusion that the guy you take at #5 is someone you want on your team in the future. You generally figure out how to make that work - trade players at a lesser value than you need to that you dont care about (ahem, JVR), so bonuses arent a challenge.

Flyers management - unsurprisingly - screwed the pooch here again. Whether people would have or wouldnt have bitched really doesnt matter -- what matters is that they just lost a high-value asset because of their own mismanagement.

They actually received something back for that asset. A young #2-3 right shot dman and a second. The asset wasn’t lost.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Can't blame Briere for any of this, he was handed a shitty situation and has worked hard to fix it.

Provorov trade is looking like a stroke of genius, 1st, (2) 2nds, Grans and whatever we get for Walker.

Poehling was a good signing, good 4C, can play PK, could be trade bait or extended to fill 4C until some kids are ready (he's only 25).

Dumping Hayes, TDA, given how they've played (so much for the fantasy that we'd get more value holding on to them and their $12M cap hit).

Making the best of the Gauthier situation, no panic, considered lots of options, got the best deal they could get.

A great draft.

Mistakes were made, should have moved Laughton (though I'll never buy the 1st and 2nd for Laughton rumor, had to be a big salary dump included), Hathaway was an overpay, we'll see if he's moveable (but had to play someone and Allison hasn't done squat in LHV).

Some things take time. Atkinson you hoped would continue scoring and be moveable, now a summer buyout is probably in his future, same with Pederson. Pay $3.5M for two years to dump $10.25M next season to use as trade bait. Risto is now an above average defensive D-man, but might need another year to make his contract moveable.

Yes GMs certainly do look good when you selectively pick actions and frame them as well as possible. This is the kind of thing that you did to frame Fletcher as wholly mistake-free. Now suddenly we are hearing about Briere having to fix inherited problems, which is weird if there weren't any mistakes.

 

[renberg]

So if you’re GM of any other team in the league, what’s the best pick or prospect you would give up to get Cutter?

It’s a good question but if you don’t get his signature on a contract I wouldn’t give you anything. I believe that Gauthier had chats with Hayes and one topic was whether it would be worth it to play four seasons in college and then be a UFA like Hayes did when he skipped out on the Blackhawks in ‘14. It’ll be interesting to see if he signs with the Ducks.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

Can't blame Briere for any of this, he was handed a shitty situation and has worked hard to fix it.

Provorov trade is looking like a stroke of genius, 1st, (2) 2nds, Grans and whatever we get for Walker.

Poehling was a good signing, good 4C, can play PK, could be trade bait or extended to fill 4C until some kids are ready (he's only 25).

Dumping Hayes, TDA, given how they've played (so much for the fantasy that we'd get more value holding on to them and their $12M cap hit).

Making the best of the Gauthier situation, no panic, considered lots of options, got the best deal they could get.

A great draft.

Mistakes were made, should have moved Laughton (though I'll never buy the 1st and 2nd for Laughton rumor, had to be a big salary dump included), Hathaway was an overpay, we'll see if he's moveable (but had to play someone and Allison hasn't done squat in LHV).

Some things take time. Atkinson you hoped would continue scoring and be moveable, now a summer buyout is probably in his future, same with Pederson. Pay $3.5M for two years to dump $10.25M next season to use as trade bait. Risto is now an above average defensive D-man, but might need another year to make his contract moveable.

You’re really going to try this one? You know every little detail going on here and how this front office operates?

What happened to being cautious and waiting for information to come out before jumping to conclusions?

Or is that only reserved for Briere’s son and women that drink alcohol?

 

[Starat327]

Imagine thinking you can confidently say you get the best deal available on a player that you had * checks notes* 2.5 additional years to either convince to sign, or alternatively, continue to shop around in the event that something else in the landscape changes.

You’re really going to try this one? You know every little detail going on here and how this front office operates?

What happened to being cautious and waiting for information to come out before jumping to conclusions?

Or is that only reserved for Briere’s son and women that drink alcohol?

You edited before i could get the response in. We're talking Infalliable GMs here, not young immature kids and people who probably dont even need a wheelchair, but have one anyway.

 

[Random Forest]

Imagine thinking you can confidently say you get the best deal available on a player that you had * checks notes* 2.5 additional years to either convince to sign, or alternatively, continue to shop around in the event that something else in the landscape changes.

I’m not going to “confidently say” anything about the merits of this trade, but I am once again asking, what kind of a trade would you have pursued on the condition that Gauthier was not going to sign?

Doesn’t have to be anything that was rumored. Who or what would *you* have preferred?