Confirmed Signing with Link: [FLA] Panthers re-sign Reilly Smith (5 years, $5M AAV)

[OutForMilk]

lets take a look at the players this year who scored 60-69pts:

bergeron
giroux
letang
jagr*
kucherov
hall
forsberg
pacioretty*
stamkos
getzlaf
monahan (rfa)
okposo
krejci
eriksson
spezza
perry
carter
stone*
scheifele*
josi*
sedin
zuc*
marchand*
johansen (rfa)
ror
simmonds*
jussi*

out of those guys how many, if they were ready for a new contract, would get 5per or less (besides for jagr of course and id say jussi)? the * is next to the guys currently making 5per or less, most of which are on old contracts. out of 27 players 2 are rfa's who will definitely get over 5per, and 9 who outside of jagr and jokinen would definitely making over 5per on a new contract/longterm.

That's probably because they are a league above both Smith and Trochek as players. Do you think that either player belongs anywhere near this list? 60-70 point players deserve big contracts. This is two 50 point RFA's. Different class of player. Poor comparison.

 

[BB88]

That's probably because they are a league above both Smith and Trochek as players. Do you think that either player belongs anywhere near this list? 60-70 point players deserve big contracts. This is two 50 point RFA's. Different class of player. Poor comparison.

Isn't that the point?

Someone said 60 point players are worth 5M contracts, players that are in a different league than Smith/Tro, but as you say those guys deserve big contracts, contracts that won't be 5M per year.

 

[FrolikFan67]

yea the point was someone said 5mil contracts are for 60pt players, i listed all the 60pt players and hardly any of them, if any of them, make or would make 5mil. those players obviously made more. 5mil for 25-25-50 is fair value considering everything he does, his age, etc

 

[vendetta]

Those players got those contracts because they have had several years of established play, then cashed in because many teams had to vie against each other in order to get them. So who exactly was it that Florida was bidding against to get these guys? The cookie monster?

The whole point is they won't have to go against anyine for these guys for the next 5-6 years.. this keeps them from getting involved im the free agency madness that we witnessed two days ago... as a franchise u identify your core guys and lock them down and try to get assets for anyone else when it's time... they dealt off kulikov and guds cause they didn't see them as worth it... well they will have 5 forwards locked up as their core barkov tro bjugstad smith, and huby.. that's 5 forwards.. it's not at all unreasonable ...

 

[vendetta]

Well we have ,most of our forward core locked up without paying a single one over 6 mil so far lol.. Ya that's aweful cap management..

 

[Kimota]

If the Rangers were spending like this people would be all OMG Sather(yea)!

But now people are all I like what the Panthers are doing trading Gudbranson throwing money at Smith, Demers and Trochek.

 

[ponder]

I'm not sure he deserves more than Trocheck, would have pegged him at more like $4.5 mil. $5 mil is stil OK though.

 

[The Madrigal]

Major over payment by Florida, especially when you look at what some guys just got on the open market as UFA's. I'll take Boedker all day at 4 million over Smith at 5.

 

[vendetta]

If the Rangers were spending like this people would be all OMG Sather(yea)!

But now people are all I like what the Panthers are doing trading Gudbranson throwing money at Smith, Demers and Trochek.

Cause panthers window is about to open and Rangers is all but shut... we don't have a forward signed for more than 6 mil... how ,any teams can say that, that are about to start contending?

 

[vendetta]

Major over payment by Florida, especially when you look at what some guys just got on the open market as UFA's. I'll take Boedker all day at 4 million over Smith at 5.

Haha laughabke.. is that the same Boedker that averages 50 games played a year? Or the one that has had one 50 point season and hasn't cracked 40 otherwise... I hope Boedker starts killing penalties too like smithand is solid in his own end.. Oh wait he's not? OK than good luck with that.. dude hasn't even cracked 20g in nhl and is nowhere near the two way player smith is.. but great arguement

 

[The Madrigal]

Cause panthers window is about to open and Rangers is all but shut... we don't have a forward signed for more than 6 mil... how ,any teams can say that, that are about to start contending?

You guys just paid 5 million a year for a guy who has averaged 19 goals and 46 points over the last 3 seasons. Considering he was a RFA and didn't hit the open market as a UFA that's an over payment no matter how you slice it. Mikkel Boedker puts up similar numbers and got 4 million per and 1 year less of term as a UFA.

 

[OutForMilk]

Haha laughabke.. is that the same Boedker that averages 50 games played a year? Or the one that has had one 50 point season and hasn't cracked 40 otherwise... I hope Boedker starts killing penalties too like smithand is solid in his own end.. Oh wait he's not? OK than good luck with that

Hey, that stat line sounds familiar. Isn't that what Trochek has done?

 

[The Madrigal]

Haha laughabke.. is that the same Boedker that averages 50 games played a year? Or the one that has had one 50 point season and hasn't cracked 40 otherwise... I hope Boedker starts killing penalties too like smithand is solid in his own end.. Oh wait he's not? OK than good luck with that

If you are going to argue with someone and try to insult them my advice to you is to at least get your facts straight. Boedker has TWO 50 point seasons which is more than one, and the same amount of 50 point seasons Smith has.

Not to mention, again, that Boedker was on the open market as a UFA and Smith was a RFA.

 

[vendetta]

Hey, that stat line sounds familiar. Isn't that what Trochek has done?

Yup and did it in his first full season... maybe he peaked in his first full season but something tells me there's a small chance he coukd get better and not get worse every year

 

[OutForMilk]

yea the point was someone said 5mil contracts are for 60pt players, i listed all the 60pt players and hardly any of them, if any of them, make or would make 5mil. those players obviously made more. 5mil for 25-25-50 is fair value considering everything he does, his age, etc

5 million. Is that what you think I had an issue with? No. It was the combined 53.5 million for both Trochek and Smith, when neither has proved they deserve it yet. That's a ton of bank for two complementary players. Far riskier than needed.

 

[vendetta]

If you are going to argue with someone and try to insult them my advice to you is to at least get your facts straight. Boedker has TWO 50 point seasons which is more than one, and the same amount of 50 point seasons Smith has.

Not to mention, again, that Boedker was on the open market as a UFA and Smith was a RFA.

Ah touch he hit 50 this year...still has 2 less 20goalseasons which is 0.. smith has 2 in 3 seasons.. don't forget he kills penalties and when not scoring provides other ways to impact a game.. that's called value... Boedker doesn't hold that

 

[The Madrigal]

Boedker last 3 years:
130 points in 207 games = 0.628 points per game

Smith last 3 years:
141 points in 245 games = 0.575 points per game

 

[vendetta]

5 million. Is that what you think I had an issue with? No. It was the combined 53.5 million for both Trochek and Smith, when neither has proved they deserve it yet. That's a ton of bank for two complementary players. Far riskier than needed.

2c is complimentary? It's pretty important piece.. and Smiths worst season is 40 pts.. again he is just about to e terrible his prime I think he deserved it.. never knew locking up your young core was so frowned upon... none of these co tracts r high or long enough to ever become an anchor or problem

 

[OutForMilk]

Yup and did it in his first full season... maybe he peaked in his first full season but something tells me there's a small chance he coukd get better and not get worse every year

Sure, he could get better. He kind of has to, no? Otherwise that contract will be a killer. Its 6 years long. They couldn't have waited and seen if he could at least repeat it, or if his upward pace continues?
And what about Smith? 51, 40, then 50 points. Is that an upward trajectory? More like a straight line, when he just signed a 25 million dollar contract.
And they(florida) were doing so well, too.

 

[vendetta]

Boedker last 3 years:
130 points in 207 games = 0.628 points per game

Smith last 3 years:
141 points in 245 games = 0.575 points per game

Yup and one does other things that contribute to winning and is just entering his prime... one is injured almost half the time and contributes only offense and when he isnt scoring he isn't helping.. I take smith everyday of the week

 

[vendetta]

Sure, he could get better. He kind of has to, no? Otherwise that contract will be a killer. Its 6 years long. They couldn't have waited and seen if he could at least repeat it, or if his upward pace continues?
And what about Smith? 51, 40, then 50 points. Is that an upward trajectory? More like a straight line, when he just signed a 25 million dollar contract.
And they(florida) were doing so well, too.

If somehow neither of them improve and stay 50 point players then the contracts r perfectly good.. 50 point ts is 5 mil.. 60 is 6 mil.. pretty straight forward

 

[OutForMilk]

2c is complimentary? It's pretty important piece.. and Smiths worst season is 40 pts.. again he is just about to e terrible his prime I think he deserved it.. never knew locking up your young core was so frowned upon... none of these co tracts r high or long enough to ever become an anchor or problem

Here's where we disagree. These aren't core players, IMO. They are complementary ones ATM.

 

[The Madrigal]

Yup and one does other things that contribute to winning and is just entering his prime... one is injured almost half the time and contributes only offense and when he isnt scoring he isn't helping.. I take smith everyday of the week

Funny how you ignored the post of mine calling you out for getting your facts incorrect while you were trying to be all big daddy cool. Also LMAO at "Reilly Smith is just entering his prime" (in relation to Mikkel Boedker who is a whopping 2 years older). Smith might be entering his prime at 25 but so is Boedker at 27.

The fact is Boedker is a more productive offensive player and has had garbage around him in Arizona for most of those last three seasons. Even if you give Smith the edge as a two-way forward, the difference between a contract a guy receives on the open market as a UFA versus one that a guy gets from his own team as a RFA is significant.

Any way you look at it, Smith should be not be getting 1 million more per year and an additional year of term over Boedker at all, let alone as a RFA versus Boedker on the open market.

 

[vendetta]

Here's where we disagree. These aren't core players, IMO. They are complementary ones ATM.

So what's a core player then? Only 1c and 1d? 2 core players only?

 

[OutForMilk]

Funny how you ignored the post of mine calling you out for getting your facts incorrect while you were trying to be all big daddy cool.

The fact is Boedker is a more productive offensive player and has had garbage around him in Arizona for most of those last three seasons. Even if you give Smith the edge as a two-way forward, the difference between a contract a guy receives on the open market as a UFA versus one that a guy gets from his own team as a RFA is significant.

Any way you look at it, Smith should be not be getting 1 million more per year and an additional year of term over Boedker at all, let alone as a RFA versus Boedker on the open market.

This part is key. Massive difference in how these should look. The fact that people are having to use only UFA contracts as a comparable isn't a good thing.